State of Origin - Game 1 Discussion

[Sproj]

Has that been confirmed? I haven't seen anything to confirm Coates won't be selected for Origin.

Not confirmed

 

[Kooly87]

Who would you select?

Hunt and be done with it. Forget carrying a bench Dummy Half. We used Brimson in Game 1, why the need for two Dummy Halves in Game 2?

Macca's defence is sound but he's a complete liability in attack. We're going to ask zero questions around the ruck until Hunt gets on the field at best. The game might well be long gone by then.

 

[Mr Fourex]

McCullough?

What about him....?

Massive oversight on my behalf.......yeah, McC should be no where near that team in a perfect world. I'd prefer Hunt to start at hooker......slot someone else in on the bench.

 

[Sproj]

What about him....?

Massive oversight on my behalf.......yeah, McC should be no where near that team in a perfect world. I'd prefer Hunt to start at hooker......slot someone else in on the bench.

I think I get it, and while I don't think it will work, Green is obviously going with the most defensive options where possible and Macca is a noted good defender. The problem isn't through the middle so much though as it is out wide and there aren't many changes there.

 

[Big Pete]

RIP QLD
RIP Origin
RIP NRL

The lack of incentives to develop talent looks to have come to a head... Qld cop a few injuries and they're suddenly chucking out a team that wouldnt beat any of the top 6 NRL sides.

I have a theory that poaching QLD talent by the Sydney clubs may have been a contributing factor.

@Big Pete would be the man to confirm or deny, but I feel there would be less affiliation between a poached QLD player and a Sydney club compared to their own juniors. I'd take Melbourne out of the conversation because they have no local juniors and are completely reliant on QLD, although they're not solely reliant on QLD.

A guy like Jayden Nikorima heads to Sydney, doesnt make it and is thrown on the scrap heap. I believe Frei was tipped to be the next Parker (goal kicking lock forward) and ended up following Wayne down to Newcastle before fading off to obscurity.

Does the same happen if they stayed in qld??

It could be said that they just weren't talented enough to begin with, but if you're picking up a player when they're 17/18 in the hope they become a superstar, but then dont bother investing any further money into their development, then the coach, club, etc. may preference the junior they've had since he was 13 over the blow in from QLD.


Anyway the current state of the QLD playing pool is dire and if origin dies the NRL will too

I'm trying to think of what promising talents you could be referring to. The only players who come to mind are Jaydn Su'A and Corey Allan but I'd need a bigger sample size to jump to that conclusion.

At least at the NRL level, at a junior level that's more prevalent because players struggle to adapt in their new environment and rarely make the sacrifices to hone their craft. I've lost track of the amount of times I've seen some exciting young prospect linked to the Roosters only for them to completely disappear. Dehjza Pene, Stepharn Holo, Geordie Brand, McKenzie Baker etc. All had pretty big raps on them but their careers barely went anywhere. Baker is a small exception since he's playing NSW Cup for the Knights but he's struggling to hold a position - he keeps going from fullback to halfback.

I don't think it's a Sydney problem, it's a Brisbane and North Queensland problem. 0 representatives from the Broncos is just completely unacceptable and I understand that they've had a couple of these players poached from them - Walsh, Fifita, B. Hunt and Macca would all be Broncos if they didn't attract ridiculous contracts. However considering how great their junior pathways are supposed to be they should be churning out more Brisbane based players.

Fans whinge about Reece Walsh but the problem is that it's feast and famine with the Broncos. They'll go out and sign the best kids from Mackay and Southport but they'll ignore Brisbane so when these young prospects who have never had any issue attracting any interest go to the highest bidder Brisbane are left holding the bag. Or in other words playing Karmichael Hunt at 6 after 12 years out of the game.

I never understood the Nikorima signing with Sydney. They had all these other quality five eighth prospects at the club at that time in Hastings, Matterson & Watson. Even Latrell, Moga and Momirovski could play 6 in a pinch. The balance was just completely out and I was not shocked at all to see his career end up the way that it did. For all this talk about the Roosters Way they were signing some absolute drop-kicks around that time - Paul Carter being the most obvious example.

Frei was one of the most exciting U/16s coming through but he had knee issues and he lost his speed. He toiled away in QCup, stood out and earned a few NRL deals but it was clear that he couldn't compete at that level.

Similar deal with Whitchurch who made all the junior rep teams but had injury problems and just missed too much footy. There was a good prospect there but he just never fixed his hands.

Brendon Gibb is probably a better example. It looked like he was going to follow in Gillett's foot-steps and be the next break-out star from Norths. Instead some ranga took that from him and Gibb ended up at Penrith where he suffered a couple of really bad injuries and never went on with it. He came back to Brisbane and got a few games around the Origin period but that was the extent of his NRL career. I was happy though - I wanted as many 2008 NYC graduates as possible. I really had my fingers crossed for Watene-Edwards and Butterfield.

Back in the day there was an us vs. them mentality between the Sydney and Brisbane based Queensland players. It got to the point where they'd play a trial between the two similar to City vs. Country which the Sydney teams usually came out on top. I especially remember the 1987 trial because Laurie Spina completely out-played Langer but the selectors ignored them and went with Alf regardless. @1910 may have to correct me but I'm pretty sure Bennett had to be talked around on that selection and it wasn't until the senior players like Vautin spoke up for him that he started to warm up to him. Then Alf had one of the all-time great Origin debuts and there was no turning back from there.

Coincidentally Fatty found himself in the centre of the Sydney vs. Brisbane Queensland divide. He was famously selected over Norm Carr who was one of the best players in the BRL and fans were not happy. It was seen as the selectors going with the Sydney based player on principal so when the Maroons lost Game I he became the scapegoat. Queensland went onto win the series with Carr at lock and Fatty off the bench - I think it was only a series later that Vautin won fans over.

 

[BroncsFan]

I'm trying to think of what promising talents you could be referring to. The only players who come to mind are Jaydn Su'A and Corey Allan but I'd need a bigger sample size to jump to that conclusion.

At least at the NRL level, at a junior level that's more prevalent because players struggle to adapt in their new environment and rarely make the sacrifices to hone their craft. I've lost track of the amount of times I've seen some exciting young prospect linked to the Roosters only for them to completely disappear. Dehjza Pene, Stepharn Holo, Geordie Brand, McKenzie Baker etc. All had pretty big raps on them but their careers barely went anywhere. Baker is a small exception since he's playing NSW Cup for the Knights but he's struggling to hold a position - he keeps going from fullback to halfback.

I don't think it's a Sydney problem, it's a Brisbane and North Queensland problem. 0 representatives from the Broncos is just completely unacceptable and I understand that they've had a couple of these players poached from them - Walsh, Fifita, B. Hunt and Macca would all be Broncos if they didn't attract ridiculous contracts. However considering how great their junior pathways are supposed to be they should be churning out more Brisbane based players.

Fans whinge about Reece Walsh but the problem is that it's feast and famine with the Broncos. They'll go out and sign the best kids from Mackay and Southport but they'll ignore Brisbane so when these young prospects who have never had any issue attracting any interest go to the highest bidder Brisbane are left holding the bag. Or in other words playing Karmichael Hunt at 6 after 12 years out of the game.

I never understood the Nikorima signing with Sydney. They had all these other quality five eighth prospects at the club at that time in Hastings, Matterson & Watson. Even Latrell, Moga and Momirovski could play 6 in a pinch. The balance was just completely out and I was not shocked at all to see his career end up the way that it did. For all this talk about the Roosters Way they were signing some absolute drop-kicks around that time - Paul Carter being the most obvious example.

Frei was one of the most exciting U/16s coming through but he had knee issues and he lost his speed. He toiled away in QCup, stood out and earned a few NRL deals but it was clear that he couldn't compete at that level.

Similar deal with Whitchurch who made all the junior rep teams but had injury problems and just missed too much footy. There was a good prospect there but he just never fixed his hands.

Brendon Gibb is probably a better example. It looked like he was going to follow in Gillett's foot-steps and be the next break-out star from Norths. Instead some ranga took that from him and Gibb ended up at Penrith where he suffered a couple of really bad injuries and never went on with it. He came back to Brisbane and got a few games around the Origin period but that was the extent of his NRL career. I was happy though - I wanted as many 2008 NYC graduates as possible. I really had my fingers crossed for Watene-Edwards and Butterfield.

Back in the day there was an us vs. them mentality between the Sydney and Brisbane based Queensland players. It got to the point where they'd play a trial between the two similar to City vs. Country which the Sydney teams usually came out on top. I especially remember the 1987 trial because Laurie Spina completely out-played Langer but the selectors ignored them and went with Alf regardless. @1910 may have to correct me but I'm pretty sure Bennett had to be talked around on that selection and it wasn't until the senior players like Vautin spoke up for him that he started to warm up to him. Then Alf had one of the all-time great Origin debuts and there was no turning back from there.

Coincidentally Fatty found himself in the centre of the Sydney vs. Brisbane Queensland divide. He was famously selected over Norm Carr who was one of the best players in the BRL and fans were not happy. It was seen as the selectors going with the Sydney based player on principal so when the Maroons lost Game I he became the scapegoat. Queensland went onto win the series with Carr at lock and Fatty off the bench - I think it was only a series later that Vautin won fans over.

I guess your reference to the prevalence in the junior systems is what I was referring to.

Basically the guys that get picked up by Sydney teams before anyone has heard of them and then fade off to obscurity.

I was wondering if their lack of affiliation with the Sydney club means they drop lower on the list compared to the Sydney juniors and eventually they're released with little effort to develop them... or they become homesick and head home, but they're lack of presence down in Sydney means they just go into ISC.

Say a Flegler or someone (not a superstar generational talent like Swalker, Ponga, etc.) getting picked up by the roosters, but never makes grade and eventually tails off and becomes an also ran in the reserve grades, because the Sydney team is somewhat fickle when it comes to talent outside of their normal junior catchment... or potentially they just have a high turnover of juniors and the QLD guys are little fish in the big pond

Everyone talks about NSW coming in and raiding QLD talent and Broncos no longer having the foothold they previously had, but they dont seem to eventuate within the Sydney teams.

I'm referring to the Sydney system more so than anywhere else primarily because Storm have a good conversion rate of QLD talent coming through to their first grade squad. Canberra previously did as well until we took Logan back.

But are Sydney raiding all these young qld'ers and then they're never heard of again?