The Coaching Paradox

[mrslong]

Has anyone else noticed that when certain teams with new coaches are commented whether that be by the commentators, media or fans that there is a certain double standard on appraising how one coach or another is going.

For example, Wayne Bennett has just taken over from Nathan Brown at the Dragons, the team is off to a flyer and the basic word around town is that Wayne Bennett has saved the club and the turn around is all his doing, in spite of Nathan Brown.

On the other hand, you have a club like the Broncos (for example) that has a new coach in Ivan Henjak and they are off to a flyer too, however certain reports would have you believe that this could very well be a hang over from the Wayne Bennett era.

I'm not saying Henjak isn't getting any credit, of course he is, but it's still out there...the fact that we'll know his true fruits in a few years once the WB factor is out of the way. So why isn't this the same for Nathan Brown & the Dragons?

Obviously I can see that Wayne Bennett would have a greater impact, but it just annoys me a bit that these double standards are out there..... [icon_shru

 

[broncosil]

I agree. Similar examples are when Fitler went to the Roosters, they played better for a while, now they are back to crap. Taylor at Parramatta, same story.

Players get new sense of self belief, the whole fresh start thing, and play with some confidence. However, once they lose one or two games, the self belief is gone and they back to their usual form.

I heard once that the reason Sterlo won't coach is because when the team wins, it's because of the players, when the team loses, it is the fault of the coaches. I tend to believe him, especially with the high turnaround of coaches these days.

 

[Jeba]

You cannot compare the impact that Bennett had at the Broncos to that of Brown's at the Dragons. Firstly, Bennett was at the Broncos for 21 years - of course there is going to be some "lingering influence" in the early stages, particularly when the man who replaced him was his assistance coach for the previous 3 seasons, and a long-time helper as well.

Brown just continued St George's trend of having on of the best squads in the League, full of talent, but not getting the results. The Brown era was no different to the Farah era really. I know we haven't seen the ultimate result down there yet as we are only in round 7, but it is clear that Bennett has made good changes about the place. You only have to look at the form turnarounds of many of their players to get that loud and clear.

In short, Bennett has provided the Dragons what they have needed since their 1999 Grand Final loss. Henjak has just used his time with Wayne as an opportunity to maintain the winning culture at the Broncos.

 

[mrslong]

Yes, and why isn't the Sharks losses because of Ricky Stuart, but rather because they lack "quality attacking players" WTF, he coached the Roosters into oblivian, he coached the Sharks into oblivion, he coached NSW (ok so they won his year, but seriously, every year AFTER he was in it they lost, and really it was only Andrew Johns that helped make him look good) into oblivion and now he's just finished coaching AUstralia into oblivion. Yet he's still given credit for WHAT!!? the 2002 premiership????

 

[Jeba]

Ricky took the Sharks to the top 4 remember, I don't remember anyone hailing him as a supercoach for that.

 

[Dexter]

I think Henjack has stamped his own style all over the Broncs already and deserves a lot of credit for how we are going.

We are playing with a lot more width in the forwards and we have a crack at spinning the ball early if there is a chance not to mention a lot more offloads.

It is infinately more entertaining to watch than the bash and barge style WB was using.

 

[Coxy]

Yes, and why isn't the Sharks losses because of Ricky Stuart, but rather because they lack "quality attacking players" WTF, he coached the Roosters into oblivian, he coached the Sharks into oblivion, he coached NSW (ok so they won his year, but seriously, every year AFTER he was in it they lost, and really it was only Andrew Johns that helped make him look good) into oblivion and now he's just finished coaching AUstralia into oblivion. Yet he's still given credit for WHAT!!? the 2002 premiership????

3 Grand Finals in a row.

Agree that Henjak has stamped himself on the way the team is playing. He's been doing it for 3 years though. I remember seeing him in 2006 spending lots of time working with the forwards, particularly passing before the line etc. I think he's been encouraging those skills while Bennett's game plan still steered away from using them.

The result is a lot of the players who have been around for a while are ready to adapt to Henjak's plan straight away.

 

[mrslong]

Meh, I'm not saying people aren't giving Henjak credit, i'm pointing out the discrepancies in reporting to create an interesting discussion.

And fit in some Ricky Stuart bashing where I can. 3 GF's in a row, and the only one he won was when the best team in the comp was robbed (and not the dogs), couldn't beat penrith, lolz, couldn't beat bulldogs, lolz. He failz.

 

[Huge]

Henjak inherited a great team at the peak of its powers, a team that was a few seconds away from a seventh gf appearance. He has done little and deserves little credit at this stage. In no way though will that situation continue as his influence grows and the great mans fades. Henjak will deserve credit only after he demonstrates his coaching prowess when the chips are down......not when he is given a ready-made champion team.

This year teams have realised the real go forward is out wide or rather spinning the ball from side to side. Two or three passes wide is gaining way more metres than up the middle so the trend is across most clubs rather than down to some inspirational coaching from the little fella. We also have the benefit of having some of the most gifted footballers in the comp and this is due in no small way to the foresight of Henjaks predecessors.

WB has put steel and discipline into the Saints along with, I believe, a humbleness I have not seen before in St George. Anyone seeing the recent interviews with WB and Soward alongside could not help but be impressed by the obvious similarity to his interviews in Brisbane when accompanied by Darren Lockyer. Watching Soward tacitly agreeing with WBs summation of Sowards representative opportunities was a clear indication of the the new wind blowing down Kogarah way. Along with the Dogs the Saints are the teams standing in Brisbanes way for GF success.

We'll know a great deal more about Henjak when the acids on......it's not how good you are when you're good but rather how good are you when you're travelling badly.

 

[Coxy]

Translation: Wayne Bennett makes me Huge.

 

[OXY-351]

a team that was a few seconds away from a seventh gf appearance.

4846 seconds is a little more than a few.

 

[Huge]

????????.....last few seconds of the last match played between Melbourne and Brisbane in 2008 = 4846 ???weird person

and Mr Lix...eloquent as always !!!!

 

[Coxy]

There was no guarantee the broncos would beat the sharks.

 

[Huge]

fair nuff.....I believed had we won we make the GF but as you wrote...naturally the meat of my post is brushed over and the least pertinent point is seized upon...no wonder people are starved of reasonable debate on this forum.

True I wonder about the wisdom of deposing the best ever coach leagues seen to replace him with a first grade novice but hey, what would I know. I reckon no-one can make a valid evaluation after a few games and I believe it is necessary to see the performance over the duration.....

 

[Coxy]

fair nuff.....I believed had we won we make the GF but as you wrote...naturally the meat of my post is brushed over and the least pertinent point is seized upon...no wonder people are starved of reasonable debate on this forum.

True I wonder about the wisdom of deposing the best ever coach leagues seen to replace him with a first grade novice but hey, what would I know. I reckon no-one can make a valid evaluation after a few games and I believe it is necessary to see the performance over the duration.....

Bear in mind it wasn't me that was disputing your "seconds from a grand final" line. In fact I agree with you, we would've beaten the Sharks....but still, it's mere speculation.

 

[rnabokov]

Henjak inherited a great team at the peak of its powers, a team that was a few seconds away from a seventh gf appearance. He has done little and deserves little credit at this stage. In no way though will that situation continue as his influence grows and the great mans fades. Henjak will deserve credit only after he demonstrates his coaching prowess when the chips are down......not when he is given a ready-made champion team.

This year teams have realised the real go forward is out wide or rather spinning the ball from side to side. Two or three passes wide is gaining way more metres than up the middle so the trend is across most clubs rather than down to some inspirational coaching from the little fella. We also have the benefit of having some of the most gifted footballers in the comp and this is due in no small way to the foresight of Henjaks predecessors.

WB has put steel and discipline into the Saints along with, I believe, a humbleness I have not seen before in St George. Anyone seeing the recent interviews with WB and Soward alongside could not help but be impressed by the obvious similarity to his interviews in Brisbane when accompanied by Darren Lockyer. Watching Soward tacitly agreeing with WBs summation of Sowards representative opportunities was a clear indication of the the new wind blowing down Kogarah way. Along with the Dogs the Saints are the teams standing in Brisbanes way for GF success.

We'll know a great deal more about Henjak when the acids on......it's not how good you are when you're good but rather how good are you when you're travelling badly.

Now that is the only paradox in this thread.

Aside from which, there are too many variables to make sImplistic judgements. [icon_drun

Apart from which, Coxyz makes a telling point In his post above.