NEWS The salary-cap proposal that could revolutionise the game

[1910]

I like the idea, but there is no way you could consider both Sam Walker and Joseph Suali as Rooster development players.

Walker is 100%. The only other club with a dog in that fight would be the Jets and they're not an NRL club so that's waste of time.

Signed at 16, played NRL there- what else is there? He's played for four clubs in his life- Norths Tigers, Jets, Bears and Roosters.

 

[ningnangnong]

Any relation to you @Kimlo?

 

[1910]

I don't mind debut as the cut off simply because most pre debut signings now are 16-17 so if you're committing to someone and putting effort in from 16 you're developing him. I wouldn't want players any younger signed up- Year 12 is a good time.

I also wouldn't mind if you had to give some of that cap saved to their other clubs- so if Walker saves you 100k on the cap why can't the Roosters give half that to the Norths Tigers or Jets MM program.

 

[1910]

This is the point though, this starts a discussion. You sure as heck don't keep it at the point it is currently proposed but to get it off the ground, at its initial stages, you have to get the Roosters to buy in. I also have less issue with Walker being counted as a Roosters' junior by the way, far more so than Suaalii.

It's not junior, that's one the things people have to stop using it- Walker will never be a Rooster junior- he's from Ipswich but he can be Rooster developed and a club rewarded for that.

Similar to Mozer isn't a Broncos junior but if he plays NRL the Broncos should be rewarded for bringing him to Brisbane after school.

 

[Sproj]

It's not junior, that's one the things people have to stop using it- Walker will never be a Rooster junior- he's from Ipswich but he can be Rooster developed and a club rewarded for that.

Similar to Mozer isn't a Broncos junior but if he plays NRL the Broncos should be rewarded for bringing him to Brisbane after school.

I don't disagree with you. I think another word would be better than junior when it comes to the wording for this if it got off the ground but for the purpose of this discussion on here, I think junior is ok.

For me, Suaalli came through the Rabbits, he should be identified with them. Walker was unaffiliated to another NRL club, so for me, he is fair game as a Roosters' 'junior' for want of a better word currently. I don't mind there being some tweaking so it isn't NRL debut but first NRL squad contract - whether that is development contract (36?) / squad contract (30?)would be the question.

 

[Kimlo]

Make it first top 30 NRL or NRL development contract, this junior talk is just a semantics discussion.

 

[Harry Sack]

Any relation to you @Kimlo?

Must say I did laugh

 

[Mr Fourex]

Bow down to the Rooster overlords......?

 

[Wolfie]

The problem is all the clubs dont really have systems that bring kids through from a young age so its probably got to be when they make their professional debut. Its not like in the Premier league in England where kids get picked up from 6 or 7 years old and can theoretically stay with the same team all the way through. If we had a uniform system like that then clubs could be rewarded better for player development.

I'm not even sure which clubs in the NRL are actually in a position to develop players like that. The Dolphins will be able to take kids from 6 years old all the way up to the NRL. I'm guessing here but would Souths and Penrith be about the only other 2? Maybe Newcastle?

 

[nopatience101]

The system shouldn’t reward a club like the warriors for poaching Walsh on big money on the cusp of his nrl debut. That’s just ridiculous.

 

[Emanon]

Is it just limited to juniors making their debut, or could a clever club just bring in mature aged players who haven't yet debuted in the NRL like a Cody Walker?

Also if the next Sam Burgess, Josh Hodgson or Ellery Hanley came along, does Super League and International experience count for anything there or is it just specifically NRL debut?

 

[Wolfie]

Is it just limited to juniors making their debut, or could a clever club just bring in mature aged players who haven't yet debuted in the NRL like a Cody Walker?

Also if the next Sam Burgess, Josh Hodgson or Ellery Hanley came along, does Super League and International experience count for anything there or is it just specifically NRL debut?

Lets get Will Pryce and find out.

 

[Emanon]

Lets get Will Pryce and find out.

I'm not completely against it. He looks promising. And most of the top clubs don't have same state origin/international players in their 1st choice spines anymore.

 

[Big Pete]

Here's the issue...

Say you're the Wests Tigers and you blood 10 players but you win the wooden spoon. The coach is sacked, new coach comes in and right away is under pressure to deliver results. There's pressure from up-stairs about some out of favour star player that they want to sign to sell season tickets and those 10 players that were blooded, 6 of them are off contract and they want to be the highest players at the club.

Meanwhile you've got this 17 year old, he can kick the ball 80m, throws a great bullet pass and is bloody quick but he's 70kgs and can't look at you in the eyes when you speak to him. He needs development but his money grubbing manager is already talking to Politis about this kid.

It's a two prong attack, they're taking your immediate future and then they're taking the long term player and benefiting from it. Now you're getting articles written about you that you thought the kid was too small for first grade.

So you're left with the scraps, watching Moneyball for the umpteenth time, carrying that one to try and find value in these players no one else can, but your club is no longer pure.

So the rich get richer, you get poorer and 3 years from now Matt Nable is narrating your demise because the skinny kid who couldn't look you in the eyes is sporting a dumb hair-cut and scoring grand final winning tries. Oops!

However the NRL keeps holding the game back trying to cater to these clubs.

So what can they do?

Canabalise another struggling club, try to poach their bright eyed bushy tail kid who just wants a game. Sure, the kid gets the yips anytime the team needs him to come up with a big play, but his highlight reels during the junk minutes is fantastic and he's getting positive press. As long as you avoid getting flogged every other week, you're golden and may even sign a three year contract on the back of it.

But nothing changes as everyone just sits absolutely gobsmacked at how brilliant Sydney are at managing the cap. The same teams just dominate as they use the struggling clubs as glorified reserve grade. 'Thanks for giving our kid the experience, now prepare to lose by 40'.

We need to find a way to break that cycle. Penrith appear to be the model but they didn't get their on development alone. They recruited a stack of marquee players and bought themselves enough time in development, basically going through three generations 2011-14, 2015-17, 2018-2021 before it finally led to success. Is there enough Gus Gould's around to exploit his connections and convince these players to come to him? Are there enough nurseries like Penrith pumping these kids out?

Let's fix a few things first. Let's get a proper free agency period so clubs and players can actually make a proper assessment of their worth. Let's support the lower grades, whether that means a national reserve grade or better funding for the NSW/Qld Cup so we can entice players to stick with the game and hire better coaches. Then on the other side, keep promoting the game at skills, get players and ex-players over into schools they haven't hit in their local area. Get them running drills during Phys Ed and lets try to get more boys and girls into the game.

The more 'local' players you bring through, the more you get off the cap. Expansion clubs can receive an exception but that will cease over time. I'm pretty sure there's a system in the NFL with rookie contracts, see if something like that can be done in the NRL.

 

[Xzei]

always thought cap concessions should be there to encourage clubs to invest in junior football if the by product is more kids getting identified as having potential to play in the nrl that can only be good right?

 

[1910]

Is it just limited to juniors making their debut, or could a clever club just bring in mature aged players who haven't yet debuted in the NRL like a Cody Walker?

Also if the next Sam Burgess, Josh Hodgson or Ellery Hanley came along, does Super League and International experience count for anything there or is it just specifically NRL debut?

older debuts like Walkers and Capewells are pretty rare. If you jag one that's great but I don't think you could be actively out there looking for one so you get some salary cap relief.

 

[Jedhead]

Here's the issue...

Say you're the Wests Tigers and you blood 10 players but you win the wooden spoon. The coach is sacked, new coach comes in and right away is under pressure to deliver results. There's pressure from up-stairs about some out of favour star player that they want to sign to sell season tickets and those 10 players that were blooded, 6 of them are off contract and they want to be the highest players at the club.

Meanwhile you've got this 17 year old, he can kick the ball 80m, throws a great bullet pass and is bloody quick but he's 70kgs and can't look at you in the eyes when you speak to him. He needs development but his money grubbing manager is already talking to Politis about this kid.

It's a two prong attack, they're taking your immediate future and then they're taking the long term player and benefiting from it. Now you're getting articles written about you that you thought the kid was too small for first grade.

So you're left with the scraps, watching Moneyball for the umpteenth time, carrying that one to try and find value in these players no one else can, but your club is no longer pure.

So the rich get richer, you get poorer and 3 years from now Matt Nable is narrating your demise because the skinny kid who couldn't look you in the eyes is sporting a dumb hair-cut and scoring grand final winning tries. Oops!

However the NRL keeps holding the game back trying to cater to these clubs.

So what can they do?

Canabalise another struggling club, try to poach their bright eyed bushy tail kid who just wants a game. Sure, the kid gets the yips anytime the team needs him to come up with a big play, but his highlight reels during the junk minutes is fantastic and he's getting positive press. As long as you avoid getting flogged every other week, you're golden and may even sign a three year contract on the back of it.

But nothing changes as everyone just sits absolutely gobsmacked at how brilliant Sydney are at managing the cap. The same teams just dominate as they use the struggling clubs as glorified reserve grade. 'Thanks for giving our kid the experience, now prepare to lose by 40'.

We need to find a way to break that cycle. Penrith appear to be the model but they didn't get their on development alone. They recruited a stack of marquee players and bought themselves enough time in development, basically going through three generations 2011-14, 2015-17, 2018-2021 before it finally led to success. Is there enough Gus Gould's around to exploit his connections and convince these players to come to him? Are there enough nurseries like Penrith pumping these kids out?

Let's fix a few things first. Let's get a proper free agency period so clubs and players can actually make a proper assessment of their worth. Let's support the lower grades, whether that means a national reserve grade or better funding for the NSW/Qld Cup so we can entice players to stick with the game and hire better coaches. Then on the other side, keep promoting the game at skills, get players and ex-players over into schools they haven't hit in their local area. Get them running drills during Phys Ed and lets try to get more boys and girls into the game.

The more 'local' players you bring through, the more you get off the cap. Expansion clubs can receive an exception but that will cease over time. I'm pretty sure there's a system in the NFL with rookie contracts, see if something like that can be done in the NRL.

Hey @Big Pete it's obvious you've put some time and thought into this, but I thought your opening statement was a wee bit shaky in so much as this scenario - "Say you're the Wests Tigers and you blood 10 players but you win the wooden spoon. The coach is sacked, new coach comes in and right away is under pressure to deliver results. There's pressure from up-stairs about some out of favour star player that they want to sign to sell season tickets and those 10 players that were blooded, 6 of them are off contract and they want to be the highest players at the club."

Let's say for arguments sake that the ten players were all playing. This means the club receives a whopping $1 million off of the salary cap. Now as they were all rookies when they were brought into first grade (apart from the coach being an out and out fool) it would mean their combined salaries would hardly be stressing the clubs overall cap. So even if 6 wanted upgrades the bonus $1 million the club received would go a long way to giving them all an upgrade leaving the rest of the cap for the club to sign that marquee player to get bums on seats.

If however, only say 4 of those 6 rookies were genuine top notch prospects the club could so easy say to the others "look here is what we are offering, if you can get better elsewhere then take it". This then leaves the club room to bring either cheaper journeymen or indeed promote other promising youngsters to fill the space.

Maybe as a reward for development the NRL could stipulate that developed players not only saw the club credited by $100,000 from the cap but they were also off the market to other clubs for their first two years unless of course the club who 'blooded' them deemed them surplus to their requirements. This initial two season moratorium on developed rookies would also go a long way to stopping them from trying to hold their club to ransom for a bigger paycheck.

After two seasons of the rookie playing first grade the club will have a) recouped much of their investment, b) received $200,000 dispensation, and c) will have had time to decide whether the player was worth retaining and therefore sign them up to a longer term deal before the moratorium was up and teams like the Roosters could get their hands on them.

As I said in an earlier post when the rookie makes first grade the club should consider splitting the cap credit with them to stay with them. Money talks and this incentive might just compensate clubs by making them an attractive proposition and in doing so diminish the need for so called 'Gurus' like Gould.

 

[1910]

I don't disagree with you. I think another word would be better than junior when it comes to the wording for this if it got off the ground but for the purpose of this discussion on here, I think junior is ok.

For me, Suaalli came through the Rabbits, he should be identified with them. Walker was unaffiliated to another NRL club, so for me, he is fair game as a Roosters' 'junior' for want of a better word currently. I don't mind there being some tweaking so it isn't NRL debut but first NRL squad contract - whether that is development contract (36?) / squad contract (30?)would be the question.

For me people hear junior and they think he has been playing in the area since he was six and has come through to NRL. It's really outdated now that clubs scout and move guys around all the time post school and even for school.

The focus should just be development- where you were born or played Under 10's has no relevance.

Unless like I suggested junior clubs are going to get some money out of any change.