Who was the most talented forward out of Dave Taylor or Tevita Pangai Junior?

[theshed]

Yeah.....OK....well.........you didn't start out that way.

Well I did, we just have different concepts of what “pure natural ability” means. I thought was obvious that it meant ability that they were born with and didn’t necessarily obtain through effort - aka physical gifts.

 

[BroncosFever]

Taylor in a landslide for mine. Just had everything going for him...what could have been huh? TPJ still has time to turn his career around, but even then he just doesn't have the ball skills of Taylor.

TPJ's stats are a bit misleading, he tries to throw an offload every 2nd carry and only about a third of those offloads benefit the team

 

[Xzei]

Slater was better than Hunt when Hunt left the code.

Fullback sure but the more talented player i think both khunt and inglis have him covered,my reasoning is that i think khunt could have moved to 6 and played at a high level similar to lockyer same with inglis.
Take nothing away from slater probably the greatest fullback of the modern era i just dont think he could have made the switch.
All hypothetical though and opinion based.

 

[Mustafur]

I think I have had my opinion changed on this, it didn't help that Dave Taylors career was when I wasn't really watching the game(kind of lost interest after school which was 2007 and didn't really watch properly again till 2015 only watching a few games here and there during the season in that time).

Dave Taylor was like a half with the running game of David Fifita when he felt like playing.

It hurts the brain seeing players like this waste what they have over everyone else though.

 

[Mustafur]

I'm in list mode, so here you go based purely on talent, best 17 of that generation (and this is VERY arguable):

1. Slater (Hayne had that amazing season but so did Barba, Slater was there or there abouts though for basically his whole fullback career)
2. Hayne
3. Inglis
4. Folau
5. Yow Yeh
6. Marshall
7. Thurston
8. A.Fifita
9. Smith
10. D.Taylor
11. Thaiday
12. $.Williams
13. Taumololo

Slater wasn't anywhere near the top 10 in talent, his ability came from pure hard work, it wasn't a natural thing he was born with, the kind of player that worked harder then anyone in the game to get his plays right.

 

[Sproj]

Slater wasn't anywhere near the top 10 in talent, his ability came from pure hard work, it wasn't a natural thing he was born with, the kind of player that worked harder then anyone in the game to get his plays right.

He was one of the fittest blokes in Australian sport, not just league, possibly the fittest of everyone for a time, plus he had x-factor, he was very, very talented but also had a work ethic to back it up. You might be thinking of Cronk?

 

[Big Del]

Slater wasn't anywhere near the top 10 in talent, his ability came from pure hard work, it wasn't a natural thing he was born with, the kind of player that worked harder then anyone in the game to get his plays right.

He was a star in his 1st season .
He already had that speed and evasion . His reading the play , anticipation and ball skills were what improved .

I think his stint after the shoulder reco was even better than previous .

 

[1910]

Slater wasn't anywhere near the top 10 in talent, his ability came from pure hard work, it wasn't a natural thing he was born with, the kind of player that worked harder then anyone in the game to get his plays right.

Slater scored 34 tries his first year in Colts for Norths in 2001. He only turned up two weeks before the season started.

June Storm offered him a contract.

34 tries in a season in the centres, when you want to be the half and no pre-season- is plenty of ability.

 

[Super Freak]

Hayne never had the work ethic because he never needed it. He had that natural ability that everybody just gushed over and he was thrown contracts left, right and centre. He never had to work for it.

If he had the work ethic, he would have gone down as one of the all-time greats. QLD don't win 8 in a row if he had it. When he was clicking, there wasn't anyone that could stop him.

But unfortunately, he never had the work ethic. It seems to be the trend for players with a lot of natural ability, they have that in spades but they don't have the work ethic.

 

[Super Freak]

As for who was the most talented out of DT and TPJ.

DT hands down.

 

[WASSHHH]

As for who was the most talented out of DT and TPJ.

DT hands down.

I’d go one step further.

If you were building a prototype RL forward, it would be Dave Taylor. Size, skill, pace (relative to size of course), understanding of / knack for the game.

If you could then shoehorn Cronk’s attitude into that prototype, he’d be unstoppable.

 

[Sproj]

Hayne never had the work ethic because he never needed it. He had that natural ability that everybody just gushed over and he was thrown contracts left, right and centre. He never had to work for it.

If he had the work ethic, he would have gone down as one of the all-time greats. QLD don't win 8 in a row if he had it. When he was clicking, there wasn't anyone that could stop him.

But unfortunately, he never had the work ethic. It seems to be the trend for players with a lot of natural ability, they have that in spades but they don't have the work ethic.

I dare say had he not gone to the NFL and subsequently the Gold Coast where all careers die, he would have been an all time great regardless, he was so naturally talented.

 

[WASSHHH]

I dare say had he not gone to the NFL and subsequently the Gold Coast where all careers die, he would have been an all time great regardless, he was so naturally talented.

I really just can’t agree with this.

No doubt Hayne had a purple patch where he was almost unstoppable, but one, one and a bit standout seasons does not make you an all-time great.

If he sustained that form the entire time, absolutely. But based on his career form before even going to the NFL (9 seasons); does he really belong in the conversation with the greats from only his own generation like Lockyer, Smith, Thurston and Slater and Inglis to a lesser degree?

I really don’t think so.

EDIT: he was a lot like purple-patch Barba in that, in isolating their amazing runs, they were phenomenal. But when you look more broadly at their careers, they were good, but also floated in and out of games, as well as form, quite a bit.

Greats don’t do that.

 

[Sproj]

I really just can’t agree with this.

No doubt Hayne had a purple patch where he was almost unstoppable, but one, one and a bit standout seasons does not make you an all-time great.

If he sustained that form the entire time, absolutely. But based on his career form before even going to the NFL (9 seasons); does he really belong in the conversation with the greats from only his own generation like Lockyer, Smith, Thurston and Slater and Inglis to a lesser degree?

I really don’t think so.

EDIT: he was a lot like purple-patch Barba in that, in isolating their amazing runs, they were phenomenal. But when you look more broadly at their careers, they were good, but also floated in and out of games, as well as form, quite a bit.

Greats don’t do that.

Him and Peptide Pete basically single-handedly beat the greatest origin team of all time over three games and Hayne played well at origin in three different positions I believe, maybe even 4 (I have no idea if he ever played 6 at origin, can't remember).

Hayne did not have one all time great 9 week spell and that was it, that is a total fallacy. He may not have stayed at that level but he was elite for most of those 9 years and was on an upward trajectory when he left to go to the NFL.

I can't stand the bloke in general and his post-football life has been absolutely disgraceful but that doesn't change the massive talent he possessed, so sorry I can't agree with your opinion because I cannot see how anyone who saw him play and the talent he possessed could come to the conclusion based on talent and potential alone, he wasn't one of the best of his generation. He was big and strong, could run like the wind, was agile and was able to play make well, he was extremely gifted.

Was he the best? That is very arguable and I am not saying he was either, I put Inglis and probably Folau above him but he's in the conversation.

 

[Big Pete]

I just wonder if things would have been different if Hayne was at another club. His form certainly dipped after 2009 and there were times when he was caught out positionally. However, he was also expected to do the job of three players and didn't have the support he did in 2009. It's difficult to get into the game when you're being coached to go against your instincts.

Even at the representative level, it took NSW far too long to utilise Hayne to his potential. When they actually stuck with him at fullback for an entire series, they ended the streak. I know I used to breathe a massive sigh of relief whenever I'd say Kurt Gidley at 1.

 

[Wolfie]

Him and Peptide Pete basically single-handedly beat the greatest origin team of all time over three games and Hayne played well at origin in three different positions I believe, maybe even 4 (I have no idea if he ever played 6 at origin, can't remember).

Hayne did not have one all time great 9 week spell and that was it, that is a total fallacy. He may not have stayed at that level but he was elite for most of those 9 years and was on an upward trajectory when he left to go to the NFL.

I can't stand the bloke in general and his post-football life has been absolutely disgraceful but that doesn't change the massive talent he possessed, so sorry I can't agree with your opinion because I cannot see how anyone who saw him play and the talent he possessed could come to the conclusion based on talent and potential alone, he wasn't one of the best of his generation. He was big and strong, could run like the wind, was agile and was able to play make well, he was extremely gifted.

Was he the best? That is very arguable and I am not saying he was either, I put Inglis and probably Folau above him but he's in the conversation.

Hayne just didnt have the consistency to be a great player imo. The true greats turn up week in week out year after year, i think i could only say Hayne had one really top quality year. He wasnt poor the rest of the time at Parra, but he never had another truly top level year after 2009. He challenged Billy for the best fullback in the game in 2009 but he just never followed it up. Billy kept working to improve, i felt Hayne just coasted.

 

[Big Pete]

Hayne just didnt have the consistency to be a great player imo. The true greats turn up week in week out year after year, i think i could only say Hayne had one really top quality year. He wasnt poor the rest of the time at Parra, but he never had another truly top level year after 2009. He challenged Billy for the best fullback in the game in 2009 but he just never followed it up. Billy kept working to improve, i felt Hayne just coasted.

2014.

Which highlights my point about him being dragged down by Parra. Even when Hayne was playing lights out footy he was still being dragged down by those around him.

 

[Wolfie]

2014.

Which highlights my point about him being dragged down by Parra. Even when Hayne was playing lights out footy he was still being dragged down by those around him.

I wouldnt say 2014 was at his 2009 levels. Even so, 5 years between top class years of footy doesnt exactly show he was an elite player. I agree though, didnt help him at Parra.

I've still not got any time for the bloke. He's a grub. Never forgot that time in Origin when he elbowed Tunza in the back of the head while he was on the ground then as soon as Tunza got up he vanished behind the rest of the players.