Who was the most talented forward out of Dave Taylor or Tevita Pangai Junior?

[BooKhaki]

A lot of talk about Hayne. Trbo is more talented. Trbo 21' is probably the best season I've ever seen.

 

[BooKhaki]

I wouldnt say 2014 was at his 2009 levels. Even so, 5 years between top class years of footy doesnt exactly show he was an elite player. I agree though, didnt help him at Parra.

I've still not got any time for the bloke. He's a grub. Never forgot that time in Origin when he elbowed Tunza in the back of the head while he was on the ground then as soon as Tunza got up he vanished behind the rest of the players.

No human can hurt Tunza. He wouldn't have even noticed it.

 

[Wolfie]

No human can hurt Tunza. He wouldn't have even noticed it.

I dont think he did tbh

 

[Big Pete]

I wouldnt say 2014 was at his 2009 levels. Even so, 5 years between top class years of footy doesnt exactly show he was an elite player. I agree though, didnt help him at Parra.

I've still not got any time for the bloke. He's a grub. Never forgot that time in Origin when he elbowed Tunza in the back of the head while he was on the ground then as soon as Tunza got up he vanished behind the rest of the players.

He was more consistent in 2014. Even during his purple patch, there were games where Hayne would be well-contained and only come when the Eels were on top and 'simply dance' his way to the try line.

I agree that he isn't 'elite' and there's very few players I'd have in that category. Still, he was a remarkable talent and at his best, there were few better.

 

[Wolfie]

He was more consistent in 2014. Even during his purple patch, there were games where Hayne would be well-contained and only come when the Eels were on top and 'simply dance' his way to the try line.

I agree that he isn't 'elite' and there's very few players I'd have in that category. Still, he was a remarkable talent and at his best, there were few better.

I think the Trbojevic comparison earlier is a good one with Hayne and its probably a good example of how even in a reasonably ordinary team you can still stand out and perform every week. If Tommy could stay fit he'd be miles in front of Hayne i think. I dont think Hayne ever consistently made his team better like Trbojevic does when he actually plays.

Hayne though always seemed to be a very good big game player. There probably was one, but i cant recall him having a really bad game for NSW.

 

[Big Pete]

I think the Trbojevic comparison earlier is a good one with Hayne and its probably a good example of how even in a reasonably ordinary team you can still stand out and perform every week. If Tommy could stay fit he'd be miles in front of Hayne i think. I dont think Hayne ever consistently made his team better like Trbojevic does when he actually plays.

Hayne though always seemed to be a very good big game player. There probably was one, but i cant recall him having a really bad game for NSW.

It's a good comparison, but it's not like he's in a wooden spoon team with plodders and he's expected to do it all. He had Cherry-Evans, Foran and Schuster there. His brother was one of the best ball-playing forwards as well.

Even with that advantage, I don't think Tom at 26 was better than Jarryd at 26.

However if Tom plays his cards right, he can easily have a better back-end than Hayne did.

 

[Mustafur]

I thought when Hayne left for the NFL he was the best player in the game at the time, that 2014 season was right up there, not 2009 levels because that was freaky but enough to be considered the best player at the time.

 

[Sproj]

I thought when Hayne left for the NFL he was the best player in the game at the time, that 2014 season was right up there, not 2009 levels because that was freaky but enough to be considered the best player at the time.

And it isn't like he was bad either in 2010-2013. I also can't believe I am defending the bloke, I feel sick.

 

[WASSHHH]

Him and Peptide Pete basically single-handedly beat the greatest origin team of all time over three games and Hayne played well at origin in three different positions I believe, maybe even 4 (I have no idea if he ever played 6 at origin, can't remember).

Hayne did not have one all time great 9 week spell and that was it, that is a total fallacy. He may not have stayed at that level but he was elite for most of those 9 years and was on an upward trajectory when he left to go to the NFL.

I can't stand the bloke in general and his post-football life has been absolutely disgraceful but that doesn't change the massive talent he possessed, so sorry I can't agree with your opinion because I cannot see how anyone who saw him play and the talent he possessed could come to the conclusion based on talent and potential alone, he wasn't one of the best of his generation. He was big and strong, could run like the wind, was agile and was able to play make well, he was extremely gifted.

Was he the best? That is very arguable and I am not saying he was either, I put Inglis and probably Folau above him but he's in the conversation.

What are you on about with the bolded part? I am genuinely not sure how that relates to what I said.

I’m also struggling to see in your original post, the one where you said “he would have been an all time great regardless”, anything about how that assertion was predicated on “talent and potential alone”, like you have added in this post I’m quoting. Between posts, he’s also gone from “an all time great” to “one of the best of his generation”. Which is it?

All that aside, and if you want to isolate his NRL career to only include the time before his NFL sojourn; when you’ve played 9 seasons and represented your state and country like Hayne had, you are well and truly an established player. Hypothetically, if his career did end there, he’s either a great or he isn’t. It’s that simple. I don’t see how it’s fair to attach footnotes and conditions to it, especially after you’ve already excluded his time at the Titans from the conversation.

For mine; I honestly don’t give a shit how much natural talent he had. Plenty of blokes have natural talent, it’s what they do with it that really counts, it’s what separates them from the rest. By the same token, even more blokes have far less talent, but forge better careers. Honestly, Hayne’s ego was his Achilles heel.

TL;DR, I’ll leave you with one question. If you were picking your best team from around the time he played (let’s say the 5 years before he started, his pre-NFL tenure and the 5 years after it, so around 20 years), does he make it?

For me; I would want to find a spot for ‘hot’ Hayne in my team, but after I remembered I might also get ‘cold’, brain-fart Hayne instead, he’d be dropped like a bag of spuds.

I just don’t see how anyone can include players like that when talking about the best of the best.

Anyway, I’ve said everything I need to say now, so I don’t wish to bang on anymore than I already have.

 

[Big Pete]

I'm curious to see what others consider the best outside backs from 2001-21.

Because I find it difficult to go past...

1. Billy Slater
2. Israel Folau
3. Justin Hodges
4. Greg Inglis
5. Jarryd Hayne

Radradra and Lote would be in the mix for that 5 spot.

 

[Super Freak]

A lot of talk about Hayne. Trbo is more talented. Trbo 21' is probably the best season I've ever seen.

No he isn't.

More consistent, yes. More talented, no.

 

[Sproj]

I'm curious to see what others consider the best outside backs from 2001-21.

Because I find it difficult to go past...

1. Billy Slater
2. Israel Folau
3. Justin Hodges
4. Greg Inglis
5. Jarryd Hayne

Radradra and Lote would be in the mix for that 5 spot.

Yep I agree. That’s hard to argue and if anything, Folau leaving so early makes him most vulnerable but based on the short time he was in the game, you’d probably have Inglis and Folau as the most gifted backs of that era. And to me, as much as I love Hodges, his hamstrings sadly held him back.

But I’ve also got to say, based on talent alone, JYY is in there for me from that era, I dare say had he not had his career ruined, he would have been right up there too.

 

[Big Pete]

I'd still have post Origin 2002-03 and 2006-07 Hodges over any right centre of that era.

Of course if I was actually selecting the team I wouldn't be able to help myself and Tate would be the #3. I'd also find a way to put JYY into the extended squad, although I don't think he quite reach the heights the others did.

 

[WASSHHH]

I'm curious to see what others consider the best outside backs from 2001-21.

Because I find it difficult to go past...

1. Billy Slater
2. Israel Folau
3. Justin Hodges
4. Greg Inglis
5. Jarryd Hayne

Radradra and Lote would be in the mix for that 5 spot.

If Hayne isn’t at one, I wouldn’t have him in the team at all, and the way I see it, he’s not playing 1 before Lockyer, Slater, Mini or Tedesco.

So in that case, I’d replace Hayne with Morris. I do always wonder ‘what-if’ when talking of wingers though, as JYY was on a huge upward trajectory before his career was cruelly cut short.

But based on what did happen, not what might have, Morris gets the nod. I also acknowledge he may not have been as flashy as some, but he was an out an out performer on the wing. The gap between his best and worst was almost non-existent and he always did what was best for the team. Too hard to go past for mine.

The rest sounds right.

 

[Big Pete]

Hayne predominately played wing in representative teams and was among the best on the field so I don't see the issue with picking him there.

 

[Xzei]

I'm curious to see what others consider the best outside backs from 2001-21.

Because I find it difficult to go past...

1. Billy Slater
2. Israel Folau
3. Justin Hodges
4. Greg Inglis
5. Jarryd Hayne

Radradra and Lote would be in the mix for that 5 spot.

Cant remember how sailors last season in league went but prime for prime id take him over hayne and folau rest looks pretty good

 

[Xzei]

Maybe
1 slater
2 sailor
3 hodges
4 inglis
5 lote

 

[Big Pete]

Cant remember how sailors last season in league went but prime for prime id take him over hayne and folau rest looks pretty good

I did consider Dell, but it would have been based on just a few games as his form dipped dramatically in 2001. That Dragons game alone nearly earned him a nomination, easily one of the best performances from any player, period.

Lote had a similar slump when he signed with the Tahs. It was painful watching him get outplayed by John Morris on the wing.

If you stretch it to 2000, then Dell definitely comes into the conversation. I'd love to get my hands on a try he scored against the Bulldogs. I've got such a vague memory of it but I remember it being a long range try with a sweet chip and chase.