2019 Origin Discussion

[upthebroncs]

I think you might be being a bit harsh on Locky. If you watch the games he comments on invariably what he stays is pretty insightful and astute. His interview technique is shocking but it has improved from downright cringe worthy, but his reading of a game and the input he has is far more constructive than most of the serial whingers ch9 employ. Furthermore, He takes great care to try and remain as unbiased as possible, which I consider as great judgement.

I will never get over what Lockyer and Miles did to the Queensland side in Game 1, 2017.


The selection surprises included:
— Darius Boyd selected ahead of Slater
— Kangaroos winger Valentine Holmes being overlooked
— Anthony Milford being called straight into the starting team ahead of Michael Morgan and Cameron Munster
— Johnathan Thurston was named in the No. 18 jumper and was rated “very unlikely” to be fit for Game 1
— Dylan Napa promoted to a starting position in the front row; and
— Veteran Nate Myles was also named in the front row despite injuring his knee leading up to the game


1. Darius Boyd
2. Corey Oates
3. Will Chambers
4. Justin O’Neill
5. Dane Gagai
6. Anthony Milford
7. Cooper Cronk
8. Dylan Napa
9. Cameron Smith
10. Nate Myles
11. Josh Papalii
12. Matt Gillett
13. Josh McGuire
___________________
14. Michael Morgan
15. Sam Thaiday
16. Aidan Guerra
17. Jacob Lillyman
18. Johnathan Thurston

 

[Jedhead]

I think Slater was just coming back from injury and Boyd was the incumbent as were most of the other picks. And Kevvie is the coach who made the final team selection.

 

[upthebroncs]

I think Slater was just coming back from injury and Boyd was the incumbent as were most of the other picks. And Kevvie is the coach who made the final team selection.

After we got thrashed in Game 1, Kev took more ownership over the team selections. The 3 selectors were basing selections off of a majority rules voting system between them. Lockyer and Miles had a bias towards Broncos players. Hence, Boyd at fullback, Milford at 6 and Oates on the wing.

Game 2 2017

1. Billy Slater
2. Valentine Holmes
3. Will Chambers
4. Dane Gagai
5. Darius Boyd
6. Johnathan Thurston
7. Cooper Cronk
8. Dylan Napa
9. Cameron Smith (C)
10. Josh Papalii
11. Gavin Cooper
12. Matt Gillett
13. Josh McGuire
______________________
14. Michael Morgan
15. Tim Glasby
16. Coen Hess
17. Jarrod Wallace

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

After we got thrashed in Game 1, Kev took more ownership over the team selections. The 3 selectors were basing selections off of a majority rules voting system between them. Lockyer and Miles had a bias towards Broncos players. Hence, Boyd at fullback, Milford at 6 and Oates on the wing.

Game 2 2017

1. Billy Slater
2. Valentine Holmes
3. Will Chambers
4. Dane Gagai
5. Darius Boyd
6. Johnathan Thurston
7. Cooper Cronk
8. Dylan Napa
9. Cameron Smith (C)
10. Josh Papalii
11. Gavin Cooper
12. Matt Gillett
13. Josh McGuire
______________________
14. Michael Morgan
15. Tim Glasby
16. Coen Hess
17. Jarrod Wallace

Oates was best on ground for QLD first game and milford got injured just after making 2 half breaks and warming into the game. Who ever was responsible for continuing to pick jarrod Wallace next year after 2 of possibly the worst front rower performances at origin level I have ever seen, sacks boyd and Scott for their age and lack of form but keeps cooper who is older then boyd with much less origin experience and much worse form at the time, kept picking chambers despite the bullying latrell Mitchell gave him (most missed tackles in the origin series, including forwards), picked Ben hunt after his game 2 showed he just can't handle pressure massively (origin is all about pressure) and continues to pick mcguire at lock when we needed a front rower, does not deserve to ever pick a side again. There may have been an pro broncos selection panel as you put it (we were the only QLD team in the top 8 at the time and by far the most in form side, but that doesn't suit the agenda of course) but there is a MASSIVE anti broncos agenda in the media for queensland selections now and we all know how Walters loves to please the media with his picks. I don't care who picks the team, as long as walters doesn't get full reign. BTW, the biggest difference between game 1 and 2 was none of those selections AT ALL. The difference was c Smith actually turned up to play in game 2 and 3. "coincidentally" there were 3-4 more storm players picked in those games then game 1. Coincidence I'm sure.. .

 

[Big Pete]

There may have been an pro broncos selection panel as you put it (we were the only QLD team in the top 8 at the time and by far the most in form side, but that doesn't suit the agenda of course) but there is a MASSIVE anti broncos agenda in the media for queensland selections now and we all know how Walters loves to please the media with his picks.

I asked this last time and Unbreakable was the only person good enough to answer, but what media picks?

 

[Battler]

I will never get over what Lockyer and Miles did to the Queensland side in Game 1, 2017.


The selection surprises included:
— Anthony Milford being called straight into the starting team ahead of Michael Morgan and Cameron Munster

Milford is a better all round half than either of them, even more so now. Munster (not saying he's a bad player, he'd probably be the best FB in the game if he played there, but at Origin level he should be at centre as long as he remains at 5/8 at club level) trying to take control of the side last year when Hunt was doing his thing was not a pretty sight.

EDIT: I'm saying this as someone who doesn't really care if zero Broncos players are selected for Origin. It only improves our chances of making the top 2 if we have players like Milf, TPJ, Fifita, Ofa, Oates, etc over the Origin period.

 

[upthebroncs]

Oates was best on ground for QLD first game and milford got injured just after making 2 half breaks and warming into the game. Who ever was responsible for continuing to pick jarrod Wallace next year after 2 of possibly the worst front rower performances at origin level I have ever seen, sacks boyd and Scott for their age and lack of form but keeps cooper who is older then boyd with much less origin experience and much worse form at the time, kept picking chambers despite the bullying latrell Mitchell gave him (most missed tackles in the origin series, including forwards), picked Ben hunt after his game 2 showed he just can't handle pressure massively (origin is all about pressure) and continues to pick mcguire at lock when we needed a front rower, does not deserve to ever pick a side again. There may have been an pro broncos selection panel as you put it (we were the only QLD team in the top 8 at the time and by far the most in form side, but that doesn't suit the agenda of course) but there is a MASSIVE anti broncos agenda in the media for queensland selections now and we all know how Walters loves to please the media with his picks. I don't care who picks the team, as long as walters doesn't get full reign. BTW, the biggest difference between game 1 and 2 was none of those selections AT ALL. The difference was c Smith actually turned up to play in game 2 and 3. "coincidentally" there were 3-4 more storm players picked in those games then game 1. Coincidence I'm sure.. .

Yeah, I'm not saying I'm a fan of Kev's decisions either..

It's all been a mess since Mal left.

 

[Wolfie]

We simply just dont have the team at origin level we used to. We dont have the calibre of player we used to have. Its not all down to Walters ( and i'm not a huge fan of his ). You just cant replace the likes of Smith, Cronk and Thurston with Ben Hunt, Macca and Munster.

Saying that, Stick Cam Smith in last years side and we win the series.

 

[broncsgoat]

We simply just dont have the team at origin level we used to. We dont have the calibre of player we used to have. Its not all down to Walters ( and i'm not a huge fan of his ). You just cant replace the likes of Smith, Cronk and Thurston with Ben Hunt, Macca and Munster.

Saying that, Stick Cam Smith in last years side and we win the series.

His cowardice cost us.

 

[Jedhead]

His cowardice cost us.

Oough!

 

[Rico]

Isn’t this a Broncos 2019 line up thread? 2017 origin ? :)

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

I asked this last time and Unbreakable was the only person good enough to answer, but what media picks?

There were 6 broncos in the 2017 game 1 team..... 3 in game 2 with the 2016 player of the series who was a bronco dropped the following year, andthe best QLD game 1 player dropped (a bronco again)... If you play for the broncos you get dropped if the TEAM loses, other nrl team players don't get dropped due to "loyalty".. Why am I mentioning this? Because that's the media favouritism Walters succumbs too. Ofa and oates not being in the origin team somewhere is ridiculous, especially after the pitiful performances of Wallace and Chambers in games 1 and 2 last year. Gavin Cooper being played when players like thaiday and boyd were dropped in view of the future. Milford getting absolutely thrown under the bus with 5 mins to play and with c Smith not turning up, Ben hunt all of a sudden getting a golden run after announcing he is signing for the dragons.

That's 5 or 6 examples of "harsh" calls only happening to broncos players. Just a coincidence I'm sure. Btw, we had only 1 win less then the titans and the cowboys COMBINED last year and were only 1 win behind the storm... But I'm sure our players were horrendously out of form compared to those players and did not deserve loyalty like the great QLD stalwarts such as Cooper, Wallace, Chambers and Hess...

 

[Big Pete]

Thank you for your perspective Locky Jr.

There were 6 broncos in the 2017 game 1 team..... 3 in game 2 with the 2016 player of the series who was a bronco dropped the following year, andthe best QLD game 1 player dropped (a bronco again)... If you play for the broncos you get dropped if the TEAM loses, other nrl team players don't get dropped due to "loyalty"..

Justin O'Neil, Nate Myles, Aidan Guerra and Jacob Lillyman were all dropped ahead of Game II. Oates was hard done by, but are you really going to argue he was better than Valentine Holmes or Dane Gagai?

Outside of Oates, the other Broncos who were dropped were Anthony Milford and Sam Thaiday. Anthony Milford was a late call-up for Johnathan Thurston who assumed his spot in the second Game. By the third game, Anthony Milford had suffered a dislocated shoulder and was unavailable for selection. I can't blame Walters there.

Thaiday was lucky to still be apart of the Maroons system and after the Maroons suffered their worst ever defeat at home, a change was necessary.

Ofa and oates not being in the origin team somewhere is ridiculous, especially after the pitiful performances of Wallace and Chambers in games 1 and 2 last year.

Before this series, Chambers had easily been among the Maroons most consistent players and his form at club level was undeniably the best of all the three-quarter options. Likewise, Wallace played well in his initial series and was shown some latitude. In some ways he was lucky, but there wasn't much in regards to alternatives. Ofahengaue's form was improving, but it was only last year he was suiting up for the Magpies and there were real question marks over his future.

Gavin Cooper being played when players like thaiday and boyd were dropped in view of the future.

Unlike Thaiday and Boyd, Cooper benefited from a lack of viable alternatives. With Gillett injured and Papalii transitioning to the middle, the only option was Guerra who had failed.

Ben hunt all of a sudden getting a golden run after announcing he is signing for the dragons.

It wasn't sudden, Ben Hunt was drafted in after Michael Morgan was promoted to the centres. If anything it demonstrates the opposite as Daly Cherry-Evans was the favourite, but Walters believed in Hunt after working with him at the Broncos.

But I'm sure our players were horrendously out of form compared to those players and did not deserve loyalty like the great QLD stalwarts such as Cooper, Wallace, Chambers and Hess...

Unfortunately for Queensland, most of those were unquestionably the best option. Maybe Wallace and Hess can be considered lucky, but it wasn't like their alternates were banging down the door demanding selection. At best, they may have been playing slightly better football.

I still fail to see the media's role in this. When it comes to Origin, the Sydney media aren't exactly filling out their own 17s for the Maroons and who they should pick. At most they'll state the bleeding obvious about Billy Slater and Kalyn Ponga.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Maroon loyalty is sometimes mistaken for ....no-one better.

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

Thank you for your perspective Locky Jr.



Justin O'Neil, Nate Myles, Aidan Guerra and Jacob Lillyman were all dropped ahead of Game II. Oates was hard done by, but are you really going to argue he was better than Valentine Holmes or Dane Gagai?

Outside of Oates, the other Broncos who were dropped were Anthony Milford and Sam Thaiday. Anthony Milford was a late call-up for Johnathan Thurston who assumed his spot in the second Game. By the third game, Anthony Milford had suffered a dislocated shoulder and was unavailable for selection. I can't blame Walters there.

Thaiday was lucky to still be apart of the Maroons system and after the Maroons suffered their worst ever defeat at home, a change was necessary.



Before this series, Chambers had easily been among the Maroons most consistent players and his form at club level was undeniably the best of all the three-quarter options. Likewise, Wallace played well in his initial series and was shown some latitude. In some ways he was lucky, but there wasn't much in regards to alternatives. Ofahengaue's form was improving, but it was only last year he was suiting up for the Magpies and there were real question marks over his future.



Unlike Thaiday and Boyd, Cooper benefited from a lack of viable alternatives. With Gillett injured and Papalii transitioning to the middle, the only option was Guerra who had failed.



It wasn't sudden, Ben Hunt was drafted in after Michael Morgan was promoted to the centres. If anything it demonstrates the opposite as Daly Cherry-Evans was the favourite, but Walters believed in Hunt after working with him at the Broncos.



Unfortunately for Queensland, most of those were unquestionably the best option. Maybe Wallace and Hess can be considered lucky, but it wasn't like their alternates were banging down the door demanding selection. At best, they may have been playing slightly better football.

I still fail to see the media's role in this. When it comes to Origin, the Sydney media aren't exactly filling out their own 17s for the Maroons and who they should pick. At most they'll state the bleeding obvious about Billy Slater and Kalyn Ponga.

Good reply and all valid points.... But, when you raise things like "believed in him", "lack of viable alternatives", and "latitude" as part of the reasons for non-broncos players it only strengthens what I am saying surely. Why are these players so "lucky" and get afforded all these luxuries yet broncos players are consistently the first ones dropped for reasons such as looking to the future or not fitting the new team direction. Dropped by the same coach who, judging by his wife's post, is a tad annoyed and has been for some time at the broncos about being overlooked for a position he is obviously not good enough to take if clubs a third the size overlook him as well (Wests tigers).

The media are the strongest broncos critiques due to its distinct Sydney flavour and the fact hating the broncos sells more papers and gets more clicks then any other agenda in the nrl. Look at any pre origin team by a non-broncos player/fan media personality and it will be the same broncos players that Walters drops due to media pressure rather then performances (eg. Oates did not deserve to be dropped, hindsight might show Holmes is a great player but this bs of oates being a manufactured winger haha, we need his metres and hindsight has also shown that, with such a shit forward pack!)

 

[Big Pete]

But, when you raise things like "believed in him", "lack of viable alternatives", and "latitude" as part of the reasons for non-broncos players it only strengthens what I am saying surely. Why are these players so "lucky" and get afforded all these luxuries yet broncos players are consistently the first ones dropped for reasons such as looking to the future or not fitting the new team direction.

You're forgetting a big one.

Being on the end of a record home defeat. A loss like that is going to call for drastic changes and given the way that series went, I can't believe anyone would argue that the selectors got it wrong.

You're comparing two different sets of circumstances and arriving to the conclusion that Kev picks whatever side they come up with on NRL 360.

It's a long bow with hardly any basis.

 

[upthebroncs]

Good reply and all valid points.... But, when you raise things like "believed in him", "lack of viable alternatives", and "latitude" as part of the reasons for non-broncos players it only strengthens what I am saying surely. Why are these players so "lucky" and get afforded all these luxuries yet broncos players are consistently the first ones dropped for reasons such as looking to the future or not fitting the new team direction. Dropped by the same coach who, judging by his wife's post, is a tad annoyed and has been for some time at the broncos about being overlooked for a position he is obviously not good enough to take if clubs a third the size overlook him as well (Wests tigers).

The media are the strongest broncos critiques due to its distinct Sydney flavour and the fact hating the broncos sells more papers and gets more clicks then any other agenda in the nrl. Look at any pre origin team by a non-broncos player/fan media personality and it will be the same broncos players that Walters drops due to media pressure rather then performances (eg. Oates did not deserve to be dropped, hindsight might show Holmes is a great player but this bs of oates being a manufactured winger haha, we need his metres and hindsight has also shown that, with such a shit forward pack!)

Gotta remember that Oates was dropped because Kev sees him as a backrower. He saw Holmes as our long term winger. Had nothing to do with being a Bronco.

Milford isn't picked in the halves because he has a tendency to stick his tail between his legs. It's nice to have Munster there in the 6.

I don't know how McCullough is the QLD hooker ahead of Jake Friend.

These players need to earn their spots, no longer can they just play for the Broncos and expect an origin jersey down the track.. Although playing for the Broncos does still work to legitimise a players career.

 

[Allo]

Gotta remember that Oates was dropped because Kev sees him as a backrower. He saw Holmes as our long term winger. Had nothing to do with being a Bronco.

Milford isn't picked in the halves because he has a tendency to stick his tail between his legs. It's nice to have Munster there in the 6.

I don't know how McCullough is the QLD hooker ahead of Jake Friend.

These players need to earn their spots, no longer can they just play for the Broncos and expect an origin jersey down the track.. Although playing for the Broncos does still work to legitimise a players career.

Friend was absolute dogshit for most of last year.