2024 pre-season discussion: Pre-season Premiers

[Sproj]

Souths, the last of last season's non-finalists. Where did it all go wrong and more importantly, can they fix it? While I am sure the media will wax on about them, I am just not sure this season's fade out will be an outlier. Yes they are bringing in Wighton but what hole is he fixing? Is he playing centre or in the halves? If he is in the halves, is a combo of him and Walker going to work? If he is in the centres, is he going to be a significant improvement on Tass and more importantly, is he worth the money they are paying him?

This is an old football team now in many ways and they probably have one more shot before it might be a bridge too far if it isn't already. They also have so many rocks or diamonds players, it is hard to put a gauge on what this side is or isn't capable of. They are just as likely to blow everyone away as they are to be blown away. If they can somehow find enough wins to make the finals, they have some very decent big moment players who could take them to the next level that I don't think a lot of other sides have and so the makes them either contenders or also rans and not much in between.

So what do we have with 2024 Souths? Obviously time will tell but they do have weapons everywhere but can the halves get them humming? If they can, this side has the potential to be scary. If they don't this side has the potential to once again disappoint. They have the best centre in the comp in my opinion in Graham. He was untouchable before his injury, even made Herbie look second rate and he was the centre of the year and rightly so. They have a winger who can always find the try line, a big name recruit and X factor in the 1 and 6 but both those players are just as likely to self implode.

Their forward pack is scary at its best but they are still very dependent on Burgess in the middle and he isn't getting any younger. That said, if Tatola is back to full fitness, he is very impressive. Murray is arguably the best 13 in the game though and Koloamatangi is a deadset gun. Taaffe is a really big loss for them though because while Mitchell is a freak at his best, Taaffe is the more consistent of the two and a fantastic back up for the many games Mitchell misses each year.

Basically, this is a side that should be top four and a legit contender and this season was nothing short of an abject failure and so ol' big ears will be going in to season '24 as one of the coaches under the most pressure before the seasons has even kicked off.

This side is easily top four calibre:

1. Mitchell
2. Tass/Munro
3. Graham
4. Wighton
5. Johnston
6. Walker
7. Ilias
8. Tatola
9. Cook
10. Burgess
11. Arrow
12. Koloamatangi
13. Murray

14. Havili
15. Keppie
16. Suluka-Fifita
17. Host

 

[Sproj]

Alright on to side 8 from last season and let's be honest, how they finished inside the 8 is anyone's guess. This is a side that should have probably been fighting to avoid relegation (if there was such a thing). In fact, when you think about it, Stuart probably should have been in coach of the year discussions. Ultimately, Webster was a worthy winner but Stuart did something with this side that really shouldn't have been possible.

They had such a mediocre squad, so many of which were old and busted for large chunks of the year and yet he got them to the finals, albeit with a terrible points differential. Essentially, when they were good, which was most of the season, they were competitive. When they were bad, they were blown away.

All that said, the reality is that 2023 was probably the last fight this bunch of blokes had in them. It proved a bridge too far for club legend Croker and now they have lost their best player by a country mile. Their other stalwarts are a year older and running on fumes. Papalii, Whitehead and Rapana are just about done and not sure that all three of them have another full season in them. Young is so badly overrated it isn't funny. And who is even going to be their 6?

Of course, they did unearth a couple of gems in Kris as a fullback of all positions and Timoko was hands down the most underrated of all most improved players across the competition, he's an unsung weapon. Horsburgh had a season to remember as well. Tapine is the forward to move forward and build around obviously but they just do not have the X factor of class of so many teams and losing their best players coupled with the aging roster, even if Stuart can put another coaching master class, it is just difficult to see this team finishing anywhere other than the bottom 9 next season. Stranger things of course have happened though, just look at season 2023.

Stewart comes with all sorts of wraps but so did Savage and he has faded out of never quite being there anyway. I wonder if Sailor goes, do we enquire about bringing Savage to our club as a back up?

But come on, look how bog average this side is outside Tapine, Horsburgh and Timoko:

1. Stewart
2. Rapana
3. Timoko
4. Kris
5. Cotric
6. Sasagi?
7. Fogarty
8. Papalii
9. Starling
10. Tapine
11. Young
12. Whitehead
13. Horsburgh

14. Levi
15. Mariota
16. Guler
17. Smithies

 

[BroncsFan]

Alright on to side 8 from last season and let's be honest, how they finished inside the 8 is anyone's guess. This is a side that should have probably been fighting to avoid relegation (if there was such a thing). In fact, when you think about it, Stuart probably should have been in coach of the year discussions. Ultimately, Webster was a worthy winner but Stuart did something with this side that really shouldn't have been possible.

They had such a mediocre squad, so many of which were old and busted for large chunks of the year and yet he got them to the finals, albeit with a terrible points differential. Essentially, when they were good, which was most of the season, they were competitive. When they were bad, they were blown away.

All that said, the reality is that 2023 was probably the last fight this bunch of blokes had in them. It proved a bridge too far for club legend Croker and now they have lost their best player by a country mile. Their other stalwarts are a year older and running on fumes. Papalii, Whitehead and Rapana are just about done and not sure that all three of them have another full season in them. Young is so badly overrated it isn't funny. And who is even going to be their 6?

Of course, they did unearth a couple of gems in Kris as a fullback of all positions and Timoko was hands down the most underrated of all most improved players across the competition, he's an unsung weapon. Horsburgh had a season to remember as well. Tapine is the forward to move forward and build around obviously but they just do not have the X factor of class of so many teams and losing their best players coupled with the aging roster, even if Stuart can put another coaching master class, it is just difficult to see this team finishing anywhere other than the bottom 9 next season. Stranger things of course have happened though, just look at season 2023.

Stewart comes with all sorts of wraps but so did Savage and he has faded out of never quite being there anyway. I wonder if Sailor goes, do we enquire about bringing Savage to our club as a back up?

But come on, look how bog average this side is outside Tapine, Horsburgh and Timoko:

1. Stewart
2. Rapana
3. Timoko
4. Kris
5. Cotric
6. Sasagi?
7. Fogarty
8. Papalii
9. Starling
10. Tapine
11. Young
12. Whitehead
13. Horsburgh

14. Levi
15. Mariota
16. Guler
17. Smithies

Jeez that squad is just horrible this year... where on earth are they spending their cap to be even close to 95% spend for the year.

Has to be the worst spine in the comp??

I'm not sure they will go with Chevy Stewart straight off the bat... isn't he like 18 or 19 and only just started playing NSW cup last year?

Can see Rapana or Kris being their fullback... but it would still have to be in the conversation for worst spine in the comp

Regardless of whatever is happening down there they still play for the coach... and because of that they will grind out some wins.

I like the call of enquiring about Savage... it hasn't worked for him in Canberra at the moment, but if he's still not getting a call up this year then surely he'll be open for a move to restart his career.

Not sure he would come to us, as opportunities are limited here compared to others... somewhere like parra could be a decent shout though.

 

[Sproj]

Next up we have the team that finished 6th but lost week 1 finals because they are just simply unable to beat anyone good and year in, year out have the easiest draw to inflate their position in the comp - Cronulla-Peptides Sharks. This team has some really decent players in it but aside from arguably Hynes, no other big name players. They have two excellent wingers, a decent second rowers and two good centres plus Hynes and that is about it. I do rate Trindall but he is still pretty unproven. That said, moving on from Moylan is the right call, albeit two seasons too late.

Apparently, they are backing their internal pathways over recruitment (read cannot attract anyone) which is basically the opposite of what they bought Raw Bones in to accomplish. This side is stuck in a rut and I am not sure how they get out of it. They've lost solid first graders and gained...perhaps solid first graders? This is a team that is going nowhere and given other sides around them have recruited well and will likely improve, this is one side who might very well find itself fighting for the scraps of the bottom 8 again. Of course, and this will come as no surprise to anyone, they have once again been given an easier draw than most in 2024, what a shock!

Honestly, if they didn't have Hynes and a decent foil now in Trindall, I could see them really dropping off next season but the draw means they will get some better results and a higher position than they should. This is just a boring team:

1. Kennedy
2. Katoa
3. Ramien
4. Gabrael
5. Mulitalo
6. Trindall
7. Hynes
8. Rudolf
9. Brailey
10. Hunt
11. Talakai
12. Nikora
13. Finucane

14. McInness
15. Hazelton
16. Hamlin-Uele
17. Kaufusi

The 11 will be a bit of a shock but...what other option do they have?

 

[NSW stables]

Souths, the last of last season's non-finalists. Where did it all go wrong and more importantly, can they fix it? While I am sure the media will wax on about them, I am just not sure this season's fade out will be an outlier. Yes they are bringing in Wighton but what hole is he fixing? Is he playing centre or in the halves? If he is in the halves, is a combo of him and Walker going to work? If he is in the centres, is he going to be a significant improvement on Tass and more importantly, is he worth the money they are paying him?

This is an old football team now in many ways and they probably have one more shot before it might be a bridge too far if it isn't already. They also have so many rocks or diamonds players, it is hard to put a gauge on what this side is or isn't capable of. They are just as likely to blow everyone away as they are to be blown away. If they can somehow find enough wins to make the finals, they have some very decent big moment players who could take them to the next level that I don't think a lot of other sides have and so the makes them either contenders or also rans and not much in between.

So what do we have with 2024 Souths? Obviously time will tell but they do have weapons everywhere but can the halves get them humming? If they can, this side has the potential to be scary. If they don't this side has the potential to once again disappoint. They have the best centre in the comp in my opinion in Graham. He was untouchable before his injury, even made Herbie look second rate and he was the centre of the year and rightly so. They have a winger who can always find the try line, a big name recruit and X factor in the 1 and 6 but both those players are just as likely to self implode.

Their forward pack is scary at its best but they are still very dependent on Burgess in the middle and he isn't getting any younger. That said, if Tatola is back to full fitness, he is very impressive. Murray is arguably the best 13 in the game though and Koloamatangi is a deadset gun. Taaffe is a really big loss for them though because while Mitchell is a freak at his best, Taaffe is the more consistent of the two and a fantastic back up for the many games Mitchell misses each year.

Basically, this is a side that should be top four and a legit contender and this season was nothing short of an abject failure and so ol' big ears will be going in to season '24 as one of the coaches under the most pressure before the seasons has even kicked off.

This side is easily top four calibre:

1. Mitchell
2. Tass/Munro
3. Graham
4. Wighton
5. Johnston
6. Walker
7. Ilias
8. Tatola
9. Cook
10. Burgess
11. Arrow
12. Koloamatangi
13. Murray

14. Havili
15. Keppie
16. Suluka-Fifita
17. Host

Keppie is a good get for them. A little underrated and hits pretty hard.

 

[McHunt]

"it's good to be back"

 

[Sproj]

Herbie still thinks he's a Bronco doesn't he.

 

[BroncsFan]

Herbie still thinks he's a Bronco doesn't he.

Maybe he's on a finder's fee if he can drag more players over to Redcliffe

 

[Sproj]

Maybe he's on a finder's fee if he can drag more players over to Redcliffe

'We're not here to cannibalise the Broncos'

 

[Gaz]

Herbie still thinks he's a Bronco doesn't he.

Always will be deep down.

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

Maybe he's on a finder's fee if he can drag more players over to Redcliffe

I think it's more that he realises his instagram followers have now peaked bcos he's left the most popular club in the nrl so he's trying to stay relevant.

 

[Sproj]

Alrighty one more because why not?

We now turn to the soon to be no name brand chickens. Look we all know this team has as flexible a salary cap as Vlandys' moral code but still, despite finishing in the top 6 based on finals results and really only falling short of a prelim by a fantastic Melbourne try, they have still managed to add two international players who were highly sought after. Why even bother pretending anymore you ask? Well clearly the comp and the club agree because they don't even try to hide it anymore. Like, apparently they needed to offload Crichton to be cap compliant and that didn't work, so we all just pretend like that didn't happen.

They re-signed everyone they wanted AND managed to bring in two very high calibre players, crazy but here we are. The other sides in the top six have all either made sideways moves, gone backwards or had the stuffing poached out of them. Not the Roosters though of course, they just sign more stars.

This side really looks the only one that, on paper, can bridge the gap to the top two, although the top two will come back to the field somewhat. Look at it, it is ridiculous:

1. Tedesco
2. Sua'alii
3. Manu
4. Smith
5. Young
6. Walker
7. Keary
8. Waerea-Hargreaves
9. Smith
10. Collins
11. Crichton
12. Tupouniua
13. Radley

14. Watson
15. Leniu
16. Butcher
17. May

Oh and then just for fun, on the outside they have:
18. Butcher
19. Tupou
20. Whyte

This side should make it a three way comp in 2024.

 

[Sproj]

Ok one more so I can then get down to the top four.

Newcastle, look they defied a lot of things to do so well in the backend of the season but to go even better, they will not to defy a lot of things again. That said, they have a good spine and in that, Ponga. Ponga should not have won the Dally M but that isn't to say he isn't one of the very best in the comp, he absolutely is. This is a guy who can win games on his own and does but is also a guy who is one head knock from missing the season, they have to defy his head knock history.

They have to defy the ongoing uselessness of the coach. He has been an abject failure until the back end of 2023. Is that the outlier or has he learned what the jobs actually means? Only time will tell the answer to this but there is no doubt this team was firing on the run in to finals for the first time in a long time. Unfortunately, they had to burn too much pressure to go up again when they needed to.

On top of this, they have lost a legit gun in Young, can they cover his ability to score? This side should have been performing like this for several years but have they peaked now and will only go down? Having Ponga means they will always be competitive and they do have a strong squad but it has been a long time since a Newcastle side was good two seasons in a row...so they need to defy that too.

This side looks good on paper, though weaker than this year and this year, to be completely harsh, was yet another failure to capitalise on the squad they have had. Were they a flash in the pan or something more?

1. Ponga
2. Marzhew
3. Best
4. Gagai
5. Jenkins
6. Cogger/Gamble/Pryce
7. Hastings
8. Saifiti
9. Brailey
10. Saifiti
11. Frizell
12. Pearce-Paul
13. Elliott

14. Crossland
15. Thompson
16. Hetherington
17. Jones

 

[Gaz]

Yesterday Sunday 17th Dec was 77 days since grand final and as there is 77 days to go before kick off is National halfway day. Just something that I read Somewhere.

 

[Sproj]

Alright, top 4 time. Of course we start with the Warriors, our bromance side.

The forum has been really enjoyable with the input of the Warriors fans and it was fun to see them go from, 'See them Warriors, bro? Useless aye' to 'See them Wahs bro? We might almost win it all aye but yous guys are still going to be too good.' (which of course did prove true in the end).

Having a good strong Warriors was great for the comp and it did feel a little bad to end their season the way we did but only a little. This was a season for them to proud of and there is a lot to build on for 2024. Really though, like all the top four sides, the question is can they build or will they drop away a little?

There is no denying Webster was a worthy winner of coach of the year, he did a truly spectacular job and just seems incredibly likeable to boot. Him and Harris are the second most likeable coach-captain in the comp behind our very own. Webster had his team playing for him, it was a joy to watch. The question mark will be though whether of course he can avoid second year coach syndrome but all the signs are positive, this should be a team to watch next year as they have a strong foundation and have recruited really well in Capewell and RTS.

The question marks though are around Johnson, can he back up such an incredible season again being one year older? How much of a destabilising effect will AFB's planned defection be? Can Dylan Walker catch fire in the super sub role again? Can DWZ have another career year? Can they bridge the sizeable gap to the top 2? I hope all of these answers are in the betterment of the team and therefore the comp as a whole.

I really like the recruitment of Capewell, offsets the loss of Curran really well. RTS of course is a question mark but if he comes back anything close to what he was before, they are massively strengthened there as well, whether it be centre or fullback. This is a side that definitely has the potential to make it a 4 way comp and time will tell whether they do or do a Newcastle and fall back to the pack inexplicably. My gut says they will go well though, I really love what Webster is doing there but can SJ wind the clock for one more season? CHT will really benefit as an understudy if he does.

The thing they now have which all the best sides have is competition for spots.

1. Tuivasa-Sheck
2. Montoya/Kosi
3. Nicoll-Klokstad
4. Berry
5. Watene-Zelezniak
6. Metcalf/TMM/CHT
7. Johnson
8. Fonua-Blake
9. Egan
10. Barnett
11. Capewell
12. Ford
13. Harris

14. Walker
15. Niukore
16. Afoa/Ale
17. Sifakula

Their issues really are not huge but they do have a bit of an issue on the bench with either being a bit too small or being too inexperienced - those are really their only choices and outside DWZ, unless RTS hits the ground running, their backline looks a bit below the top 3 sides again.

All that said, it is very nitpicky, they have a side to challenge and if they can play to a similar standard to this season or go one percent better, they will be in it up to their eyeballs again, especially with the top two coming back to the field somewhat.

 

[McHunt]

Yesterday Sunday 17th Dec was 77 days since grand final and as there is 77 days to go before kick off is National halfway day. Just something that I read Somewhere.

The first trial (against Wynnum) is 54 days away. The first preseason challenge is a week later.

Which makes me wonder about the makeup of the final preseason challenge against Manly to be played in Sydney. We normally field near enough to our full strength squad in that game. But we play in Vegas a week later, and we're meant to be training in the States before it. How is this going to work?

 

[ZTop]

Alright, top 4 time. Of course we start with the Warriors, our bromance side.

The forum has been really enjoyable with the input of the Warriors fans and it was fun to see them go from, 'See them Warriors, bro? Useless aye' to 'See them Wahs bro? We might almost win it all aye but yous guys are still going to be too good.' (which of course did prove true in the end).

Having a good strong Warriors was great for the comp and it did feel a little bad to end their season the way we did but only a little. This was a season for them to proud of and there is a lot to build on for 2024. Really though, like all the top four sides, the question is can they build or will they drop away a little?

There is no denying Webster was a worthy winner of coach of the year, he did a truly spectacular job and just seems incredibly likeable to boot. Him and Harris are the second most likeable coach-captain in the comp behind our very own. Webster had his team playing for him, it was a joy to watch. The question mark will be though whether of course he can avoid second year coach syndrome but all the signs are positive, this should be a team to watch next year as they have a strong foundation and have recruited really well in Capewell and RTS.

The question marks though are around Johnson, can he back up such an incredible season again being one year older? How much of a destabilising effect will AFB's planned defection be? Can Dylan Walker catch fire in the super sub role again? Can DWZ have another career year? Can they bridge the sizeable gap to the top 2? I hope all of these answers are in the betterment of the team and therefore the comp as a whole.

I really like the recruitment of Capewell, offsets the loss of Curran really well. RTS of course is a question mark but if he comes back anything close to what he was before, they are massively strengthened there as well, whether it be centre or fullback. This is a side that definitely has the potential to make it a 4 way comp and time will tell whether they do or do a Newcastle and fall back to the pack inexplicably. My gut says they will go well though, I really love what Webster is doing there but can SJ wind the clock for one more season? CHT will really benefit as an understudy if he does.

The thing they now have which all the best sides have is competition for spots.

1. Tuivasa-Sheck
2. Montoya/Kosi
3. Nicoll-Klokstad
4. Berry
5. Watene-Zelezniak
6. Metcalf/TMM/CHT
7. Johnson
8. Fonua-Blake
9. Egan
10. Barnett
11. Capewell
12. Ford
13. Harris

14. Walker
15. Niukore
16. Afoa/Ale
17. Sifakula

Their issues really are not huge but they do have a bit of an issue on the bench with either being a bit too small or being too inexperienced - those are really their only choices and outside DWZ, unless RTS hits the ground running, their backline looks a bit below the top 3 sides again.

All that said, it is very nitpicky, they have a side to challenge and if they can play to a similar standard to this season or go one percent better, they will be in it up to their eyeballs again, especially with the top two coming back to the field somewhat.

They are planning to play RTS at centre and cnk at fullback

 

[Battler]

Alrighty one more because why not?

We now turn to the soon to be no name brand chickens. Look we all know this team has as flexible a salary cap as Vlandys' moral code but still, despite finishing in the top 6 based on finals results and really only falling short of a prelim by a fantastic Melbourne try, they have still managed to add two international players who were highly sought after. Why even bother pretending anymore you ask? Well clearly the comp and the club agree because they don't even try to hide it anymore. Like, apparently they needed to offload Crichton to be cap compliant and that didn't work, so we all just pretend like that didn't happen.

They re-signed everyone they wanted AND managed to bring in two very high calibre players, crazy but here we are. The other sides in the top six have all either made sideways moves, gone backwards or had the stuffing poached out of them. Not the Roosters though of course, they just sign more stars.

This side really looks the only one that, on paper, can bridge the gap to the top two, although the top two will come back to the field somewhat. Look at it, it is ridiculous:

1. Tedesco
2. Sua'alii
3. Manu
4. Smith
5. Young
6. Walker
7. Keary
8. Waerea-Hargreaves
9. Smith
10. Collins
11. Crichton
12. Tupouniua
13. Radley

14. Watson
15. Leniu
16. Butcher
17. May

Oh and then just for fun, on the outside they have:
18. Butcher
19. Tupou
20. Whyte

This side should make it a three way comp in 2024.

It's a ridiculous side on paper, and would've cost a heap on the cap ofc when you take into consideration when each of those players were signed, but Teddy and Keary are getting quite crap with age, Walker regressed terribly last year (compare him to Mam or Dearden in terms of progression), and Smith isn't the player they thought he'd be at 9 (they also have zero depth at 9 or the spine in general). Who knows what's happening with Gus, but he isn't the same player he was when they signed him. JWH is old AF too.