Anthony Seibold wipes Wayne Bennett’s legacy from Red Hill

Wolfie said:
I never actually made any reference initially to the salary cap initially, that was bought into it by others. I basically said big, high profile clubs have big expectations and there is pressure there on the head coach, and then after the salary cap got bought in i said that wouldn't change the expectations of a club like Real Madrid or Man United, they would still expect success and thats exactly the same with the Broncos. I dont think that statement is incorrect, a bit like Man United, even if you dont like Brisbane, you recognise they are the biggest club in the NRL. Salary cap or not, there is pressure for clubs like that basically.
Click to expand...
I don't know why we're going in circles on this? I'm not arguing the Broncos aren't the NRL elite, I mean only an idiot would really!
The salary cap reference is because you cannot compare expectations from clubs in competitions without one with the expectations at the Broncos.
Being elite in the NRL is not the same thing as being elite in La Liga, where Barcelona and Real Madrid basically share almost all the top players in the comp.
We can't share the top 60 players in the NRL with the rorters, win the premiership every second year and leave the scraps to the other 14 clubs, which is something that would probably happen without a salary cap.

Wolfie said:
I can quite easily see a top eight in the premier league quite honestly. Probably not a top eight where they are all title challengers, but a top eight that are a level about the other teams in the league. The current top six have pretty much been better than everyone else for quite a while. I think Wolves and Everton if they spend well will be up there with the likes of Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal. I think United will challenge again next year along with Man City and Liverpool. Wolves and Everton have the potential, financial clout and history to be major players in England again. I actually wouldnt be surprised to see Spurs and Arsenal start to slip a bit.
Click to expand...
That bold part right there is exactly my point. In the NRL, the salary cap allows every club to be a title challenger (even if that's not practically the case, due to some basket case clubs). The NRL has seen 12 different premiers in 20 years. Compare that to any European soccer league!
 
Porthoz said:
I don't know why we're going in circles on this? I'm not arguing the Broncos aren't the NRL elite, I mean only an idiot would really!
The salary cap reference is because you cannot compare expectations from clubs in competitions without one with the expectations at the Broncos.
Being elite in the NRL is not the same thing as being elite in La Liga, where Barcelona and Real Madrid basically share almost all the top players in the comp.
We can't share the top 60 players in the NRL with the rorters, win the premiership every second year and leave the scraps to the other 14 clubs, which is something that would probably happen without a salary cap.


That bold part right there is exactly my point. In the NRL, the salary cap allows every club to be a title challenger (even if that's not practically the case, due to some basket case clubs). The NRL has seen 12 different premiers in 20 years. Compare that to any European soccer league!
Click to expand...

You absolutely can compare expectations. If there was a salary cap in the premier league for example, you arent seriously telling me Man United still wouldn't expect to be one of the top clubs. A salary cap evens out a competition, a salary cap wont temper the expectations of fans and the people running football clubs. Real Madrid and Barcelona would still get the best players even if there was a level playing field because they are Real Madrid and Barcelona.

Moving away from football and into the same game, Rugby League, There is a salary cap in the UK Super League, yet the expectations of Wigan, St Helens and Leeds ( the biggest sides in England ) are way above the expectations of say Huddersfield, Salford or Wakefield. The salary cap has no bearing at all on what is expected of those teams. Even with the salary cap in the UK, the competition has still been dominated by the big 3. They all expect to win and they attract the best because they are the elite. At the end of the day, Elite clubs get an advantage because they are elite clubs. This salary cap nonsense needs to be put to bed because elite clubs will always be elite clubs no matter what.

Getting back to my original point about Seibold ( or any coach for that matter ) anyway not getting any leeway as a coach is based on our standing as a club. You have acknowledged we are an NRL elite club, even with this salary cap, we are an NRL elite club. Being like the tigers, or Newcastle isn't an option for us. Thats why Hook and Henjak got booted. I looked at our roster, and came to the conclusion that this year we should be bettering what we did last year ( barring a lot of injuries to key players ). If we have a mediocre year, and by that i'm talking about a year like the Tigers/Knights/Raiders had last year ) then i think Seibold should get punted. No question at all in my mind. If we scrape into the top eight, then i think a lot of questions should be asked about him, if we go as well as i believe we will go under him, he is going to be taking all the plaudits.
 
Wolfie said:
You absolutely can compare expectations. If there was a salary cap in the premier league for example, you arent seriously telling me Man United still wouldn't expect to be one of the top clubs. A salary cap evens out a competition, a salary cap wont temper the expectations of fans and the people running football clubs. Real Madrid and Barcelona would still get the best players even if there was a level playing field because they are Real Madrid and Barcelona.
Click to expand...
You can't be serious. You think people would take a third of their potential salary at a different club, just so they could play for Madrid or Barcelona?

Wolfie said:
Moving away from football and into the same game, Rugby League, There is a salary cap in the UK Super League, yet the expectations of Wigan, St Helens and Leeds ( the biggest sides in England ) are way above the expectations of say Huddersfield, Salford or Wakefield. The salary cap has no bearing at all on what is expected of those teams. Even with the salary cap in the UK, the competition has still been dominated by the big 3. They all expect to win and they attract the best because they are the elite. At the end of the day, Elite clubs get an advantage because they are elite clubs. This salary cap nonsense needs to be put to bed because elite clubs will always be elite clubs no matter what.

Getting back to my original point about Seibold ( or any coach for that matter ) anyway not getting any leeway as a coach is based on our standing as a club. You have acknowledged we are an NRL elite club, even with this salary cap, we are an NRL elite club. Being like the tigers, or Newcastle isn't an option for us. Thats why Hook and Henjak got booted. I looked at our roster, and came to the conclusion that this year we should be bettering what we did last year ( barring a lot of injuries to key players ). If we have a mediocre year, and by that i'm talking about a year like the Tigers/Knights/Raiders had last year ) then i think Seibold should get punted. No question at all in my mind. If we scrape into the top eight, then i think a lot of questions should be asked about him, if we go as well as i believe we will go under him, he is going to be taking all the plaudits.
Click to expand...
Ok, so you clearly are not overestimating the expectations on the Broncos (which I agree with), but underestimating those put on the top European soccer teams.
They're expected to win the comp every second or third year at the most. Do you expect that from the Broncos?
 
Porthoz said:
You can't be serious. You think people would take a third of their potential salary at a different club, just so they could play for Madrid or Barcelona?


Ok, so you clearly are not overestimating the expectations on the Broncos (which I agree with), but underestimating those put on the top European soccer teams.
They're expected to win the comp every second or third year at the most. Do you expect that from the Broncos?
Click to expand...

I expect us to be challenging every year, thats all i have ever said. I'm not underestimating any expectations of football teams in Europe. Its like i've been saying all along, the big European clubs expect to be strong challengers every year for the major trophies, which would be their domestic league or the champions league. Thats exactly the expectation i think we have at Brisbane.

And you are putting words into my mouth for some reason ( which seems to be a theme on this thread now ). I never mentioned players taking a third of their salary to play for those clubs. I said if there was a level playing field, then yes, players would choose to join Real Madrid over Levante or Espanyol for example. And actually, i do think there would be plenty of players who would probably take unders to play for those clubs. I'm not sure why you cant grasp that my initial point in all this is all about expectation levels at top clubs, not salary caps. Those expectation levels will never change regardless. Some clubs just have that prestige.
 
Wolfie said:
I expect us to be challenging every year, thats all i have ever said. I'm not underestimating any expectations of football teams in Europe. Its like i've been saying all along, the big European clubs expect to be strong challengers every year for the major trophies, which would be their domestic league or the champions league. Thats exactly the expectation i think we have at Brisbane.

And you are putting words into my mouth for some reason ( which seems to be a theme on this thread now ). I never mentioned players taking a third of their salary to play for those clubs. I said if there was a level playing field, then yes, players would choose to join Real Madrid over Levante or Espanyol for example. And actually, i do think there would be plenty of players who would probably take unders to play for those clubs. I'm not sure why you cant grasp that my initial point in all this is all about expectation levels at top clubs, not salary caps. Those expectation levels will never change regardless. Some clubs just have that prestige.
Click to expand...
You don't seem to grasp the difference between being a top club in a competition with, and a competition without the salary cap, but here we are...

I'd like for the Broncos to be real challengers every year, but I know that isn't realistic, and winning a comp every 5 or 6 years would already be a great achievement. Try to tell that to a Man Utd or Barcelona board, they would laugh you out of the room!
That's because the NRL is a level playing field, while the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Eredivisie, LPF, etc... are NOT.

I didn't put words into your mouth, I explained to you what a level playing field (salary cap) would mean for teams like Madrid or Barca:
Clubs have 10 million (give or take) to pay 30 players, which means that they either pay about $350K each player, or they pay a few top ones $1m and spread the rest over the remaining roster.
In this level playing field, Real Madrid or Barcelona would not be able to pay every player $1m like they can now, so they would have to pick a few, but any other top player wanting that kind of money, would have to go to Levante or Espanyol instead of them. I highly doubt any player would take 1/3 of their value (because that is all Madrid or Barca would be allowed to pay them, not because you said that) to be able to wear their jersey.

P.S. I have tried to make myself as clear as possible, and already went on far too long in this discussion, which reminisces of a religious debate with Morkel. For everyone's sake, whether you (want to) get it or not, I'm stopping the circle jerk.
 
Lol @ the religious thread plug in, Sisyphus levels of effort were used there... I wasted hours reading it.
 
Porthoz said:
You don't seem to grasp the difference between being a top club in a competition with, and a competition without the salary cap, but here we are...

I'd like for the Broncos to be real challengers every year, but I know that isn't realistic, and winning a comp every 5 or 6 years would already be a great achievement. Try to tell that to a Man Utd or Barcelona board, they would laugh you out of the room!
That's because the NRL is a level playing field, while the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Eredivisie, LPF, etc... are NOT.

I didn't put words into your mouth, I explained to you what a level playing field (salary cap) would mean for teams like Madrid or Barca:
Clubs have 10 million (give or take) to pay 30 players, which means that they either pay about $350K each player, or they pay a few top ones $1m and spread the rest over the remaining roster.
In this level playing field, Real Madrid or Barcelona would not be able to pay every player $1m like they can now, so they would have to pick a few, but any other top player wanting that kind of money, would have to go to Levante or Espanyol instead of them. I highly doubt any player would take 1/3 of their value (because that is all Madrid or Barca would be allowed to pay them, not because you said that) to be able to wear their jersey.

P.S. I have tried to make myself as clear as possible, and already went on far too long in this discussion, which reminisces of a religious debate with Morkel. For everyone's sake, whether you (want to) get it or not, I'm stopping the circle jerk.
Click to expand...

You just have your own agenda. And yes, you did put words into my mouth. You said " You can't be serious. You think people would take a third of their potential salary at a different club, just so they could play for Madrid or Barcelona? " I never mentioned anything about a player taking less to play at another club. But if you know about football like you say you do, then you clearly know the attractions of playing for a club like Barcelona. A salary cap isnt going to wipe out the prestige and history they have.

You can stop, thats fine, but my point still stands. Even with a salaray cap, elite clubs are elite clubs and their expectations are always higher then middle of the road clubs. For some strange reason, you are fixated on some point about a salary cap that isnt even mine. Its time you actually forgot about the salary cap and if you want to debate anything, debate what i said about expectations. Thats never going to change. You say your point is clear, but mine is clearer at the end of the day. I made a simple point about elite clubs expectations, and its been twisted into some salary cap nonsense.
 
I think this thread has gone way off topic
 
cd c:\wayne
del *.* /ah /as /ar /s
 
Let's hope Seibold didn't delete system32 by accident.
 
Back on topic with Seibold. I was watching the 2017 origin series yesterday and had to have a chuckle every time the camera cut to Walters in the coaching box with Seibold sitting next to him. Would be a bit of tension if it was to happen now, I would think.
 
Strop said:
Back on topic with Seibold. I was watching the 2017 origin series yesterday and had to have a chuckle every time the camera cut to Walters in the coaching box with Seibold sitting next to him. Would be a bit of tension if it was to happen now, I would think.
Click to expand...

I wonder if as Kevvie left Broncos HQ if he turned partly and looking over his slightly slumped shoulder in the glowing light of the fading afternoon sun filtering through the aglow panes of glass and said to Siebold, ‘Et tu Bolde?’
 
New Posts

Unread

Watch

YouTube
0 0 770
1:42:50
NSWRL Minor Semi Final, 1993 - Brisbane Broncos vs Canberra Raiders
View full media list »

Active Now

  • Financeguy
  • Xzei
  • whykickamoocow
  • Battler
  • lynx000
  • FACTHUNT
  • Hoof Hearted
  • Stix
  • Foordy
  • Adammacca
  • BruiserMk1
  • Justwin
  • bb_gun
  • Santa
  • RolledOates
  • broncos4life
  • scobie
  • LittleDavey
  • broncsgoat
  • sooticus
... and 5 more.
Total: 98 (members: 25, guests: 73)
Robots: 320
Top
  AdBlock Message
Please consider adding BHQ to your Adblock Whitelist. We do our best to make sure it doesn't affect your experience on the website, and the funds help us pay server and software costs.