Ashes Discussion

[BooKhaki]

An average captain who won or drew 70% of his matches at test level. Not to mention carried the team on his bat whilst he was captain too. 53% win record in tests is pretty decent for an "average" captain

I pretty clearly said I don't judge a captain on their results, and also nothing to do with his run scoring. My comment was based on his captaincy, things like bowling changes and field settings, pretty big things for a captain.

 

[BroncosFever]

I pretty clearly said I don't judge a captain on their results, and also nothing to do with his run scoring. My comment was based on his captaincy, things like bowling changes and field settings, pretty big things for a captain.

That's the worst way you can judge a captain.

You don't judge on results? what is that?

I can imagine you on the selection panel.. "yeah but geez his forward press looked good, okay he got 3 off about 30 but my god, that forward press!", it's a result driven industry, every sport is. I think you just don't like the bloke and needed a way to rib him and given he will go on to be one of the best batsman we've had and as previously mentioned he has achieved fantastic results as a captain you've looked for the only possible grey area you could find to dig it in but unfortunately for you, nobody judges a captain like that.

It's always about results and/or individual performance, he's done good in both areas.

Thanks for that though, I was looking for a good laugh.

 

[BooKhaki]

That's the worst way you can judge a captain.

You don't judge on results? what is that?

I can imagine you on the selection panel.. "yeah but geez his forward press looked good, okay he got 3 off about 30 but my god, that forward press!", it's a result driven industry, every sport is. I think you just don't like the bloke and needed a way to rib him and given he will go on to be one of the best batsman we've had and as previously mentioned he has achieved fantastic results as a captain you've looked for the only possible grey area you could find to dig it in but unfortunately for you, nobody judges a captain like that.

It's always about results and/or individual performance, he's done good in both areas.

Thanks for that though, I was looking for a good laugh.

You understand the difference between captaincy and someone's playing ability?

I love Smith, I think he is the best Test batsman I've ever seen. If I wanted to bag him I'd say the ball tampering was his fault, but I actually believe he was innocent in that.

I made my judgements of his captaincy on how he captained the side. The fact that you don't understand what a captain does on the field, says a lot about how much you know about the game.

 

[BroncosFever]

You understand the difference between captaincy and someone's playing ability?

I love Smith, I think he is the best Test batsman I've ever seen. If I wanted to bag him I'd say the ball tampering was his fault, but I actually believe he was innocent in that.

I made my judgements of his captaincy on how he captained the side. The fact that you don't understand what a captain does on the field, says a lot about how much you know about the game.

You've probably had throw downs from the 12 year old next door on a bitumen road and carved him and that's about as far as it got for yourself.

No point debating your theory on why he isn't a good captain because the basis of your argument makes zero sense to begin with, you're saying he shouldn't be judged on results but rather be judged on the actions he makes out on field with his bowling choices and field placements? So he can win games but if he bowls the wrong blokes at the wrong times and doesn't set the right fields, he's nothing but an abject failure, that's what you're going with?

Yeah righto, hook me up. That's some good shit.

 

[BooKhaki]

You've probably had throw downs from the 12 year old next door on a bitumen road and carved him and that's about as far as it got for yourself.

No point debating your theory on why he isn't a good captain because the basis of your argument makes zero sense to begin with, you're saying he shouldn't be judged on results but rather be judged on the actions he makes out on field with his bowling choices and field placements? So he can win games but if he bowls the wrong blokes at the wrong times and doesn't set the right fields, he's nothing but an abject failure, that's what you're going with?

Yeah righto, hook me up. That's some good shit.

What does my playing resume have to do with Steve Smith's captaincy ability? You have no idea what you're talking about.

Yes. If he continues to make poor captaincy decisions in a winning team, he is a poor captain of a good side. This is really basic stuff, it's like you aren't smart enough to understand the difference between playing ability and captaincy.

 

[BroncosFever]

What does my playing resume have to do with Steve Smith's captaincy ability? You have no idea what you're talking about.

Yes. If he continues to make poor captaincy decisions in a winning team, he is a poor captain of a good side. This is really basic stuff, it's like you aren't smart enough to understand the difference between playing ability and captaincy.

I love how you get all defensive and make note of what does your playing resume have to do with anything after taking the initial shot and insinuating I know nothing about cricket, it's like you expected me to cop your shit and not retort.

You're nothing but a troll, find me a sport where results don't count more than the act of how the results were achieved, only then will I take you seriously. Nobody gives a shit how the results were achieved, nobody is sitting there with a pen and a pad "yeah but he could've done this better, or that better", if they win the game it doesn't mean shit how the result was achieved. The same reason you see people like Glenn Maxwell who could barely hit it off the square in the T20 WC still keeping his spot throughout, if the team is winning then the actual act of who did what, it doesn't matter. Unless of course we were cheating, that would be the only time it would matter.

So yes, your basis on what makes a captain good is fundamentally flawed and therefore so is your opinion that Steve Smith isn't a good captain. I don't think he's a great captain, I think he's an average captain, far from the worst. You are well within your rights to think he's a shit captain but I am telling you right now, the logic in which you've applied to come to that conclusion, well it's nothing short of a joke.

We won games under him consistently, what else do you want?

This is like that time you dug it in to Adam Zampa, then he went on to play a pivotal role as his team went on to win the World Cup.

 

[BooKhaki]

I love how you get all defensive and make note of what does your playing resume have to do with anything after taking the initial shot and insinuating I know nothing about cricket, it's like you expected me to cop your shit and not retort.

You're nothing but a troll, find me a sport where results don't count more than the act of how the results were achieved, only then will I take you seriously. Nobody gives a shit how the results were achieved, nobody is sitting there with a pen and a pad "yeah but he could've done this better, or that better", if they win the game it doesn't mean shit how the result was achieved. The same reason you see people like Glenn Maxwell who could barely hit it off the square in the T20 WC still keeping his spot throughout, if the team is winning then the actual act of who did what, it doesn't matter. Unless of course we were cheating, that would be the only time it would matter.

So yes, your basis on what makes a captain good is fundamentally flawed and therefore so is your opinion that Steve Smith isn't a good captain. I don't think he's a great captain, I think he's an average captain, far from the worst. You are well within your rights to think he's a shit captain but I am telling you right now, the logic in which you've applied to come to that conclusion, well it's nothing short of a joke.

We won games under him consistently, what else do you want?

This is like that time you dug it in to Adam Zampa, then he went on to play a pivotal role as his team went on to win the World Cup.

Your comments in this thread insinuate you know nothing about cricket.

I didn't say results don't matter, I simply don't believe they are the only thing to rate a captain on. Steve Waugh got much better results compared to Steven Fleming, but Fleming was a much, much better captain, he was just captaining a shit team in comparison.

You have just gone on this bullshit rant defending him, saying I hate him etc, and then you go on to say he is an average captain. Please read below my quote. When finished, read it again.

Unfortunately, Smith was an average captain.

What else do I want from a captain apart from winning games? I'd like smart captaincy to make sure we don't lose close games.


The people I hold responsible for winning games - All 11 players
The person I hold responsible for captaining the side - The captain

Simple stuff.

 

[Fitzy]

How about we lay off @BooKhaki here. Whilst yes the results of the team must be taken into calculation for a captain it is just important to measure his bowling changes, fielding placements and their actual leadership. I think Smith is the smartest cricket mind in the Australian test set up by far and I think in white ball He’d be right up there with his tactics. Captain’s don’t come in quality anywhere at the moment as they used too however I do believe Smith is better than what your saying I’d probably say he is in the above average to good region (and then some but not quite very good). He’s not what we’ve come to expect but most of his tenure was with a fairly poor side and trying to replace the likes of Clarke, Watto, Johnson, etc…. He wasn’t perfect wasn’t horrible and definitely not average. I might be one of the few with this opinion but I actually appreciated the win at all costs approach rather than be liked at all costs. The all costs was taken a bit to far in the end and that was the falling of Smith. However I would take anything for our unit to be ruthless again.

 

[Big Del]

You understand the difference between captaincy and someone's playing ability?

I love Smith, I think he is the best Test batsman I've ever seen. If I wanted to bag him I'd say the ball tampering was his fault, but I actually believe he was innocent in that.

I made my judgements of his captaincy on how he captained the side. The fact that you don't understand what a captain does on the field, says a lot about how much you know about the game.

3 guys who were involved in the ball scratching but got off scott free - the fast bowlers . Mitchel Starc #1 on the list .
The test before he cleaned up with reverse swing . The ball scratching match the ball wasn`t reversing so the boys decided to scuff it up a bit . As if the guy bowling that ball isn`t going to notice or even dare I say encourage it ?
We saw Shahid Afridi bite a ball one night in a 50 overs game and he is now a national hero in Pakistan . LOL .

 

[mitch222]

What's the weather report for Brisbane fellas? We good to start on time this morning? Trying to tee up my lunch time to watch a bit of the cricket

 

[Sproj]

England have won the toss and are going to bat.

We are going to learn about Cummins as a captain pretty quickly.

 

[Sproj]

Both Broad and Anderson are benched. The England attack is Robinson, Woakes, Stokes, Wood and Leach, wowsers. I know Australia's batting is an unknown after so long without cricket but these guys up against Labs, Smith and Warner in Australia, yikes.

 

[Sproj]

What a ball from Starc first up!!! WOW!

 

[Fernando]

lmao woo hoo

 

[Sproj]

lmao woo hoo

How good was that! Absolutely nailed it. Setting the tone of the series?

 

[holdzy]

That feeling when you get home, put on the cricket and England are one down

 

[Sproj]

It looks like the ball has already stopped swinging for Starc.

 

[holdzy]

It looks like the ball has already stopped swinging for Starc.

Bit of in swing on the last delivery there.