Bellamy to retire after 2016

[Buzz Killington]

But but but he was a struggling player...

At no point did I say he was a struggling player. I have heard and read on numerous occasions he was rejected as a young player (may not be as accurate as I thought, given that article). Having said that Cam Smith on debut compared to now is a vastly different player with a massive skill set and an enormous amount of composure, he didn't just have all that stuff built in him that any coach at any club could just name him at hooker and have him just do his thing.

But well done champ you jump on the back of someone else's research and make a smart ass comment because you obviously have zero constructive contribution to the debate. Fact is like it or not Craig Bellamy is a very good coach who has implemented a very good system which has allowed some great talents to flourish (Slater, Folau, Inglis, Smith), some good players rise far beyond their original ability (Cronk) and others make look like far better players than they have shown anywhere else (Norrie, Lowrie, Hoffman, Neilsen among many). Also for the record, I can't stand the bloke he is a nutcase and is responsible in large part for some very ugly wrestling tactics which helped ruin footy but they worked and he adapted them to changing rules to stay ahead of the officials which was incredibly successful for his club. Sure this year he is struggling and that is because the league has cracked heavily down on three man in/slowing down the play and it has happened suddenly, to be honest he will adapt and succeed to some extent this year and very much so next year because the guy knows how to win footy matches. I wish we had someone with that mentality running our team!

 

[1910]

But but but he was a struggling player...

Did you make the call when he was floating around playing for Norths at 7, 9 and 13 he'd be the best hooker/player ever?

 

[Sproj]

This is completely irrelevant but I played against Smith at school level, he was a couple of years older than me but our school needed someone on the bench and I was Johnny on the spot. I remember after the game asking who that kid was as he just ran rings around us all. Two years later he was playing origin.

 

[Cult]

Did you make the call when he was floating around playing for Norths at 7, 9 and 13 he'd be the best hooker/player ever?

Gus Gould would say he did.

 

[Cult]

At no point did I say he was a struggling player. I have heard and read on numerous occasions he was rejected as a young player (may not be as accurate as I thought, given that article). Having said that Cam Smith on debut compared to now is a vastly different player with a massive skill set and an enormous amount of composure, he didn't just have all that stuff built in him that any coach at any club could just name him at hooker and have him just do his thing.

But well done champ you jump on the back of someone else's research and make a smart ass comment because you obviously have zero constructive contribution to the debate. Fact is like it or not Craig Bellamy is a very good coach who has implemented a very good system which has allowed some great talents to flourish (Slater, Folau, Inglis, Smith), some good players rise far beyond their original ability (Cronk) and others make look like far better players than they have shown anywhere else (Norrie, Lowrie, Hoffman, Neilsen among many). Also for the record, I can't stand the bloke he is a nutcase and is responsible in large part for some very ugly wrestling tactics which helped ruin footy but they worked and he adapted them to changing rules to stay ahead of the officials which was incredibly successful for his club. Sure this year he is struggling and that is because the league has cracked heavily down on three man in/slowing down the play and it has happened suddenly, to be honest he will adapt and succeed to some extent this year and very much so next year because the guy knows how to win footy matches. I wish we had someone with that mentality running our team!

I think I'll reserve judgement on his coaching ability until we see some improvement in Ben Roberts.

 

[Porthoz]

I'm not going to take credit away from Bellyache for what he has achieved, be it the merit of discovering/moulding the big 3 (4 really), or mounting a team of nuffies around them to be competitive at the highest level. That can't be taken away from him.

On the other hand, I cannot abide by a coach that will sink down to any level for a win, including training and introducing dangerous wrestle movements to slow down the opponent's play the ball, or cheating the salary cap to keep all the jewels of the crown. Those things in my book, take away any brilliance he may have as a strategist, tactician and leader of men.

To be great you have to be admired and respected by your adversaries. He is not!

 

[Buzz Killington]

I'm not going to take credit away from Bellyache for what he has achieved, be it the merit of discovering/moulding the big 3 (4 really), or mounting a team of nuffies around them to be competitive at the highest level. That can't be taken away from him.

On the other hand, I cannot abide by a coach that will sink down to any level for a win, including training and introducing dangerous wrestle movements to slow down the opponent's play the ball, or cheating the salary cap to keep all the jewels of the crown. Those things in my book, take away any brilliance he may have as a strategist, tactician and leader of men.

To be great you have to be admired and respected by your adversaries. He is not!

Other coaches and players do admire him and his achievements it is just fans like us who don't so realistically his adversaries do respect him and his accomplishments. Also he was never found guilty of anything in the salary cap scandal all wrong doing was put on the board and management who are ultimately responsible for the finance side of the football team.

 

[Renegade]

To be great you have to be admired and respected by your adversaries. He is not!

You don't have to be admired, not everyone in the world is going to like you.

He is respected however, by analysts, players, coaches.

It's only fans that dislike him because he's been able to develop gameplans around the rules of the game that are effective.

You can't prove anything with the salary cap so there's no point entertaining that debate.

it's amazing the lengths people will go to discredit someone simply because they don't personally like them (not you in particular porthoz).

 

[1910]

I'm not going to take credit away from Bellyache for what he has achieved, be it the merit of discovering/moulding the big 3 (4 really), or mounting a team of nuffies around them to be competitive at the highest level. That can't be taken away from him.

On the other hand, I cannot abide by a coach that will sink down to any level for a win, including training and introducing dangerous wrestle movements to slow down the opponent's play the ball, or cheating the salary cap to keep all the jewels of the crown. Those things in my book, take away any brilliance he may have as a strategist, tactician and leader of men.

To be great you have to be admired and respected by your adversaries. He is not!

Bradman was widely disliked and not respected.

 

[1910]

Gus Gould would say he did.

Gus calls ISC park football and constantly gives it no credit so I'm hightly sceptical he was at Bishop Park completely smitten by Smith.

 

[Morkel]

You don't have to be admired, not everyone in the world is going to like you.

He is respected however, by analysts, players, coaches.

It's only fans that dislike him because he's been able to develop gameplans around the rules of the game that are effective.

You can't prove anything with the salary cap so there's no point entertaining that debate.

it's amazing the lengths people will go to discredit someone simply because they don't personally like them (not you in particular porthoz).

Actually, the bolded is not true. He developed game plans (and other plans hint hint) that were OUTSIDE of the rules, and spent a lot of time working out ways of concealing this cheating. He is revered for his coaching record and his results, but I dare say that not very many of them would be particularly fond of his methods.

 

[Renegade]

Actually, the bolded is not true. He developed game plans (and other plans hint hint) that were OUTSIDE of the rules, and spent a lot of time working out ways of concealing this cheating. He is revered for his coaching record and his results, but I dare say that not very many of them would be particularly fond of his methods.

They were effective until they were outlawed, thus were legal until otherwise adjudicated.

Cheating isn't cheating if it's not against the rules. All this ruck wrestling bs was legal up until recently.

The tackles they were doing while not in the spirit of the game and unethical, weren't illegal.

you're simply making things up to suit your own perspective which is cool, most people do it, but it's not accurate.

 

[Financeguy]

Unlikeable bloke in charge of an unlikeable club who has delivered unlikeable results.

Full credit to him for developing/coaching/mentoring 4 of the best players of the current decade or so but will forever generate negative feeling from the majority of league fans due to the salary cap scandal, chicken wings, grapples, cruchers etc.
Anyone that down plays his involvement on the careers of Smith/Slater/Cronk/Inglis just seems like sour grapes.

Has been a very good coach but not as great as Storm fans would like to believe. IMO he is a rung or 2 below the likes of Bennett, Gould, Ryan (too young to remember Gibson)

Its a shame that he won't test himself once his familiar players are gone and on the surface seems like a chicken shit move but its hard to begrudge anyone enjoying their retirement once they have set themselves up.

 

[Morkel]

They were effective until they were outlawed, thus were legal until otherwise adjudicated.

Cheating isn't cheating if it's not against the rules. All this ruck wrestling bs was legal up until recently.

The tackles they were doing while not in the spirit of the game and unethical, weren't illegal.

you're simply making things up to suit your own perspective which is cool, most people do it, but it's not accurate.

Since when has it been legal to target the head & neck of opposition players? Or to purposely strike vital parts of the body for no other reason than to temporarily (if lucky) paralyse those muscles/tendons?

 

[Cult]

They were effective until they were outlawed, thus were legal until otherwise adjudicated.

Cheating isn't cheating if it's not against the rules. All this ruck wrestling bs was legal up until recently.

The tackles they were doing while not in the spirit of the game and unethical, weren't illegal.

you're simply making things up to suit your own perspective which is cool, most people do it, but it's not accurate.

It might not have been illegal but it certainly isn't within the spirit of the game. Just because a rule isn't there in a sport doesn't mean it's ok to do those things.

 

[Morkel]

It was legal in UFC until the governing body created rules to outlaw it, same applies here. The NRL was slow to react.

It was always illegal - the NRL were just slow to adopt methods of identifying exactly how they were doing it. There were complaints for years, but it's only when wrestling experts came in and said "this here move does this, this one does that" that the NRL were able to specify precise maneuvers to single out. They were all illegal though, they're all dangerous contact or contrary conduct.

 

[Cult]

It was legal in UFC until the governing body created rules to outlaw it, same applies here. The NRL was slow to react.

Haha there's a lot of things legal in the UFC that aren't in rugby league. Although I'd like to see someone get Gallen in an arm bar. The rules of rugby league don't specifically say you can't wear steel shoulder pads but that doesn't mean you should.

 

[Renegade]

Since when has it been legal to target the head & neck of opposition players? Or to purposely strike vital parts of the body for no other reason than to temporarily (if lucky) paralyse those muscles/tendons?

While it's never been legal to directly target these areas, until such time that tackles that indirectly targeted those areas are ruled as illegal, they aren't against the rules.

As I said above, they are unethical and against the spirit of the game, but they weren't illegal.

If you want to blame anyone, blame the wrestling coaches that would be telling these guys that performing this tackle/hold or targeting this area would inhibit a certain type of movement, but then the Storm aren't the only club that have employed a wrestling coach so it's not conducive to a hate-on-bellamy approach.