Bellamy to retire after 2016

[Renegade]

It was always illegal - the NRL were just slow to adopt methods of identifying exactly how they were doing it. There were complaints for years, but it's only when wrestling experts came in and said "this here move does this, this one does that" that the NRL were able to specify precise maneuvers to single out. They were all illegal though, they're all dangerous contact or contrary conduct.

slow to adopt methods of identifying = not illegal until otherwise ruled.

you're simply playing semantics to justify your dislike of the guy, as I said a few posts back, all of this is a personal grudge against the guy and nothing to do with his achievements in either developing some of the games elite players or the success he has had for 10 years.

 

[Sproj]

I believe that if other coaches try and copy what you do, then you are without a doubt a good coach. The fact that Bellamy has had so many plays copied highlights how good he has been as a coach. Also, Melbourne only bought on one big name player I Michael Crocker, everyone else was trained up or rejects from other clubs. However, I see the other side of the coin as well and his record will always have question marks as a result of his abject failure with NSW and if he retires and never coaches without the big three.

 

[Smokin' Joe]

I don't disagree Buzz, but I have heard numerous times that the Broncos didn't pass on Smith, we wanted him, but he chose to go to Melbourne.

Absolutely correct. He even had dinner with Wayne. The reason he went to Melbourne was that he was offered a clearer pathway to the NRL. Broncos had a few hookers ahead of him at that point, and he saw a better opportunity to play NRL in Melbourne. In fact, he was offered more money to join the Broncos!

 

[Porthoz]

While it's never been legal to directly target these areas, until such time that tackles that indirectly targeted those areas are ruled as illegal, they aren't against the rules.

As I said above, they are unethical and against the spirit of the game, but they weren't illegal.

If you want to blame anyone, blame the wrestling coaches that would be telling these guys that performing this tackle/hold or targeting this area would inhibit a certain type of movement, but then the Storm aren't the only club that have employed a wrestling coach so it's not conducive to a hate-on-bellamy approach.

Ethics and fair-play matter to me, a lot! And while a lot of people think like me, I know many others (possibly more) see results before them. Bellamy is the poster-child for the latter.

As soon as you send your team out with deliberate tactics and methods to injure the opponents, you are a deadset POS to me, whether you wear my colours or not.

As to the cheating, I know it has not been proven, as many things weren't in that rort scandal. As much as the Bellamy supporters would like to claim we're bias in accusing him, I'd venture the same goes for them if they actually want to stick their head in the sand and ignore everything, such as the head-coach of the club not knowing about what is going on backstage with players contracts.

As I said in my previous post, this doesn't take away from his merit in the way he discovered/developped the likes of Slater, Smith, Cronk Inglis and Folau, as well as his ability to make nuffies look much better than they really are with very well devised game plans.

I don't admire or respect him in the same way I don't admire or respect Joey Johns, yet he has been anointed as an immortal...

 

[Anonymous person]

his record will always have question marks as a result of his abject failure with NSW

yeah let's just overlook that at the time of his tenure as NSW coach he was up against probably the best and most successful rugby league team that has ever stepped on to the field, in the prime of their careers. no biggie, I'm sure it was all the coaches fault that they lost.

Also, can I just ask why it's ok to declare on here that people are supposedly "obviously" guilty of crimes for which they have been legally cleared (ala Craig Bellamy), but not when it's people who are actually under investigation for crimes (ala sharks players)? Bellamy was found, by the independent investigators, to have had no knowledge of the rorting. The fact that certain people keep harping on about it and saying that he did speaks volumes for your motives and opinions.

 

[Renegade]

Ethics and fair-play matter to me, a lot! And while a lot of people think like me, I know many others (possibly more) see results before them. Bellamy is the poster-child for the latter.

As soon as you send your team out with deliberate tactics and methods to injure the opponents, you are a deadset POS to me, whether you wear my colours or not.

I guess for me I don't really care. I don't hold athletes up as some sort of role model or beacon of virtue, they're there to entertain me and that's that. There are grubs on every team that go out to get the upperhand on others in an underhanded manner, maybe not as malicious as what you're comparing but where do you draw the line? I don't think coaches actively send their players out to hurt the opposition, and the fact that other clubs were caught and penalized for the crusher, the chicken wing, the prowler, whatever they called that knee into the calf manoeuvre, shows that it's not just limited to one coach or club.

None of this means I don't have ethics or don't believe in sportsmanship on a personal level, but at the end of the day I'm only in it to be entertained, not to sit in my ivory tower and admire the sportsmanship of my side - I don't get anything out of that.

As to the cheating, I know it has not been proven, as many things weren't in that rort scandal. As much as the Bellamy supporters would like to claim we're bias in accusing him, I'd venture the same goes for them if they actually want to stick their head in the sand and ignore everything, such as the head-coach of the club not knowing about what is going on backstage with players contracts.

He was cleared by an independent investigation. You're basically saying you know more than the guys hired to get the bottom, which is silly and you know it. Let's face it, Bellamy could take every test under the sun and pass with flying colours re: the salary cap scandal and there are some people that still wouldn't accept it for various reasons. I'd prefer to believe the official word on it then fabricating something to reaffirm my own opinion.

As I said in my previous post, this doesn't take away from his merit in the way he discovered/developped the likes of Slater, Smith, Cronk Inglis and Folau, as well as his ability to make nuffies look much better than they really are with very well devised game plans.

I don't admire or respect him in the same way I don't admire or respect Joey Johns, yet he has been anointed as an immortal...

At least you can recognize that despite having a dislike for the guy, both of them for that matter.

You can dislike whomever you want, but ignoring the achievements of them purely because of a personal grudge is simply immature.

Also, no one was going to beat Qld when Bellamy was coaching, it wouldn't of mattered who they selected, I don't think that should count against him (especially if you consider that 3 of the big 4 would've been on Qld during that time).

 

[Porthoz]

He was cleared by an independent investigation. You're basically saying you know more than the guys hired to get the bottom, which is silly and you know it. Let's face it, Bellamy could take every test under the sun and pass with flying colours re: the salary cap scandal and there are some people that still wouldn't accept it for various reasons. I'd prefer to believe the official word on it then fabricating something to reaffirm my own opinion.

I'm only replying to this because the rest is a matter of personality. We definitely view the sporting world differently!

Don't mistake lack of enough evidence for a conviction with innocence.

BHQ is not a court of law, and as such I don't need to have conclusive proof to form my opinion/judgement.
I know enough about how professional clubs are run to be certain enough that Bellamy would have known about the rorting and the double set of books.
It's a different thing to say that he was the mastermind behind it, but it emphasises to me that there is very little he will stop at to win.

Denying this and using the "innocent until proven guilty" mantra to discredit others' opinions, is akin to burying your head in the sand, and as biased as anyone who uses his doubtful ethics to discredit his tactical nous.

 

[Sproj]

yeah let's just overlook that at the time of his tenure as NSW coach he was up against probably the best and most successful rugby league team that has ever stepped on to the field, in the prime of their careers. no biggie, I'm sure it was all the coaches fault that they lost.

Also, can I just ask why it's ok to declare on here that people are supposedly "obviously" guilty of crimes for which they have been legally cleared (ala Craig Bellamy), but not when it's people who are actually under investigation for crimes (ala sharks players)? Bellamy was found, by the independent investigators, to have had no knowledge of the rorting. The fact that certain people keep harping on about it and saying that he did speaks volumes for your motives and opinions.

Wow did you really just do that with my post? I've gotta give that one to you, didn't even try to hide taking out of context and sensationalising it. Well done!!

 

[Renegade]

BHQ is not a court of law, and as such I don't need to have conclusive proof to form my opinion/judgement.
I know enough about how professional clubs are run to be certain enough that Bellamy would have known about the rorting and the double set of books.
It's a different thing to say that he was the mastermind behind it, but it emphasises to me that there is very little he will stop at to win.

Denying this and using the "innocent until proven guilty" mantra to discredit others' opinions, is akin to burying your head in the sand, and as biased as anyone who uses his doubtful ethics to discredit his tactical nous.

So at the end of the day, we can establish that the committee tasked with determining his guilt was unable to conclusively prove it, thereby making him innocent.

It isn't about discrediting others opinions, I don't need to discredit people that are willing to make up something in order to suit their own perspectives. You may think you know what goes on in a sporting club, but unless you've been a CEO/COO/Football Manager/DOF or the equivalent of a professional sporting club that operates at the highest level, I very much doubt you know anything about it. From memory you work in IT, so somehow I don't think you've ever worked in such a capacity.

Here's the thing - neither have I, but I'm willing to back the official word (which would have been concluded by people that have a lot of experience in this sort of thing) over something I could concoct in my own head.

 

[Porthoz]

So at the end of the day, we can establish that the committee tasked with determining his guilt was unable to conclusively prove it, thereby making him innocent.

It isn't about discrediting others opinions, I don't need to discredit people that are willing to make up something in order to suit their own perspectives. You may think you know what goes on in a sporting club, but unless you've been a CEO/COO/Football Manager/DOF or the equivalent of a professional sporting club that operates at the highest level, I very much doubt you know anything about it. From memory you work in IT, so somehow I don't think you've ever worked in such a capacity.

Here's the thing - neither have I, but I'm willing to back the official word (which would have been concluded by people that have a lot of experience in this sort of thing) over something I could concoct in my own head.

Sure mate, whatever makes you feel better.

I am an IT professional, have been an athlete at a professional sporting club that operates at the highest level, and actually know quite well how they operate. I don't make up stuff to suit my agenda.

Your view that inconclusive proof equals innocence is... amusing.

 

[Anonymous person]

Your view that inconclusive proof equals innocence is... amusing.

No proof whatsoever != inconclusive proof.

 

[1910]

I believe that if other coaches try and copy what you do, then you are without a doubt a good coach. The fact that Bellamy has had so many plays copied highlights how good he has been as a coach. Also, Melbourne only bought on one big name player I Michael Crocker, everyone else was trained up or rejects from other clubs. However, I see the other side of the coin as well and his record will always have question marks as a result of his abject failure with NSW and if he retires and never coaches without the big three.

Succeeding at rep footall doesn't affect your club career, Warren Ryan never even got a rep gig. Tim Sheens coached NSW for one year and one loss.

He came up against a great team and lost, no one else has done any better in 9 years.

He has coached without the 'big three' they didn't come into grade in their current form.

 

[1910]

The rules of rugby league don't specifically say you can't wear steel shoulder pads but that doesn't mean you should.

Bulldogs tried it.

 

[Bull Shark]

I admire Craig Bellamy a lot but just have to post these .... lol

 

[Morkel]

I admire Craig Bellamy a lot but just have to post these .... lol

"I told you to keep that filing cabinet hidden!!!"

 

[Broncoman]

Bradman was widely disliked and not respected.

Are you sure?

Bradman was at one point Australia's most loved and cherished sportsmen

 

[theshed]

How well the storm competes without Cronk for the next few weeks will be a good indication if just how good a coach Bellamy really is. If they manage a top 4 finish with a worse half situation than us, he may be a genius.

 

[1910]

Are you sure?

Bradman was at one point Australia's most loved and cherished sportsmen

Fans whose only concern is games won and runs scored- sure.

Players he played with, he wasn't. He divided the 1948 tour because he somehow didn't have to go to war while Miller etc did.

He divided teams along religious lines with his bias always being suspected.

As an administrator he wouldn't stick up for the players and pay increase which brought about WSC.