Bye Bye Johnathan

[Coxy]

Well what do you define as elite? If you mean Lockyer, Langer, Lewis, Johns...you're basically talking about immortals (past or future) so there's not many of them. Fair enough definition.

If that's lockyer47's definition too then fair enough...though I wouldn't have Fittler or Daley in that list either.

 

[OXY-351]

Well what do you define as elite? If you mean Lockyer, Langer, Lewis, Johns...you're basically talking about immortals (past or future) so there's not many of them. Fair enough definition.

If that's lockyer47's definition too then fair enough...though I wouldn't have Fittler or Daley in that list either.

For sure it comes down to one's personal definition of "elite", but in this case, if you take lockyer47's point of view then I'd be arguing that an elite player is the type of player who can control a game to the point that they can win their team a premeirship. I.e, they are THE focal point of the team.

To me, ET isn't one of these players. Stacey Jones is probably closer than ET is. Possibly not helped by the positions ET played though either. Much easier to be the focal point of a team at 6 or 7, and to a lesser extent 9.

 

[Jeba]

So you're saying that elite players can only come from those wearing 6, 7 or 9? What about Reg Gasnier, Clive Churchill, John Raper, Graeme Langlands???

 

[Coxy]

So you're saying that elite players can only come from those wearing 6, 7 or 9? What about Reg Gasnier, Clive Churchill, John Raper, Graeme Langlands???

Or even Darren Lockyer pre-2004. I don't think anyone can deny Lockyer was the focal point of the Broncos' 2000 premiership. Well, that plus the awesome forward pack and unlimited interchange ;-)

 

[Nashy]

So you're saying that elite players can only come from those wearing 6, 7 or 9? What about Reg Gasnier, Clive Churchill, John Raper, Graeme Langlands???

Scott Minto???

 

[OXY-351]

So you're saying that elite players can only come from those wearing 6, 7 or 9? What about Reg Gasnier, Clive Churchill, John Raper, Graeme Langlands???

Where did I say that? I said it's much easier. Never said it was impossible, just that it's easier to do it from 6, 7 or 9, purely based on the fact that these positions get the ball more often. Going to attract a lot more attention when you're the one with the ball setting up the big plays.

 

[Coxy]

Yup. Unfortunately most honours in sport are aimed at individuals. Player of the match, Clive churchill medal, dally M, golden boot, immortals etc. Premiership teams are usually singled out for their particular focal point(s).

It's true though that league as much as any sport is a TEAM sport. A brilliant individual can only excel and lead the team to success if their teammates are doing their job too. Halves can't win a premiership without a pack that's getting on top of their opposition most of the time.

As great as Alfie was, you'd be remiss not to think of the great forwards he was playing behind.
Even Johns, with the arguably less star studded Knights pack still had guys like Kennedy, Simpson, Butterfield, Harragon etc.

 

[m1c]

Don't forget Sean Rudder outside him..

 

[Fozz]

There is not one 'elite' player who has not won a title... and I'm talking Langer, Joey, Fittler, Daley level... Thurston is not even CLOSE...

What about Anothony Mundine?

Mundine is hardly elite compared Jones or ET.

Plus he does have a premiership to his name anyway.

 

[Professor47]

I was using the term liberally and generally - I think it was dissected a bit too much!

I WAS going to mention ET. Has to be in the top 3 'elite' player without a premiership... which I feel for him... used to love him as a kid. In saying THAT - I never put him in the league of the Lockyers and Langers and what not. In terms of the "best" (excluding forwards) I've never seen any better than Langer, Locky and Joey. Those 3 are untouchable IMO. Certainly in my league time.

But you still have those Daleys, Fittlers, Stuarts... Most 'elite' ball players have been able to lead a team to premiership glory. I won't deny that Nth QLD have horrible team structure though... hell I could outrun some of their outside backs!!!!!

I'm just saying... it's hard to talk of Thursto in the same category as those above if he goes through a career without winning a title.

- and dont forget those mentioned above DID lead the team (figuratively) to premiership glory.

(Loved his services for QLD though...)


Oh yes and Jones is the one off I suppose... He was in pearl form in 02 but missed out in the GF and he played pretty well that night (1st half) as well. Then they got really unlucky in 03 and lost to a field goal didn't they?

 

[Jeba]

Nah the Panthers knocked them out in the prelims, 28-20.

 

[Professor47]

Nah the Panthers knocked them out in the prelims, 28-20.

Oh ok - I was thinking of a match where Warrior were versing Raiders and Boogerli bombed the game by dropping the ball over the line? Then there was a field goal wasn't it? Must have been Warriors who took it then...

 

[Jeba]

Nah the Panthers knocked them out in the prelims, 28-20.

Oh ok - I was thinking of a match where Warrior were versing Raiders and Boogerli bombed the game by dropping the ball over the line? Then there was a field goal wasn't it? Must have been Warriors who took it then...

Yeh Warriors won that one, 17-16 IIRC to get into the prelims.