Coaching

[Foordy]

If the Bennett succession plan is a rookie coach, then they need to be working under Bennett from 2015 IMO.

 

[jarro65]

If the Bennett succession plan is a rookie coach, then they need to be working under Bennett from 2015 IMO.

And i'd say he is.

If the Walker brothers continue to refine their expansive game plan though, they might get asked to join an NRL side in the future as assistants.

It all depends on what way the game goes in the future.

 

[1910]

Another good read on what the Walkers are doing coming in RLW.

Some quotes.

Talking about players running sideways and backwards in the recent Tv game vs the NRL laden Blackhawks.

"What you saw there is a training drill. We play a series of games at training where we do exactly that. We don't mind if we have to go backwards 50 metres. Teams are so hell bent on trying to gain metres but it doesn't matter to us."

"What is the point of doing a great 10 metre charge off your try line when you can throw the ball three passes and make 100m and score?"

"Essentially we challenge what is the norm and challenge what everyone has always done."

"When a team kick off, why does everybody kick it 40 or 50 metres down the field for a half back to catch it and give it to a rampaging front rower who's then going to career into some of your finest?"

"We make everything a contest and kicking the ball straight to them is not a contest. It has only got to go over 10 metres."

Philosophy on coaching:

If you have footwork- use it, if you can off-load, then pop balls, to restrict players from using their God given skills is a travesty.

All Shane quoted.

 

[1910]

I'll say it again; when you watch 2 games a year on 9 and say they're just playing ad lib football you're wrong.

 

[Ari Gold]

Curious to know about the make up of the Walker Bros. team? How specialised do players need to be to fit into the system? I imagine there's a premium on ball playing ability and offloading in the forwards and speed and elusiveness in the backs?

Put another way, were they to get an NRL gig, how much roster revamping would be needed to make their style truly successful in the NRL? I can't help but think that a number of forwards just wouldn't fit their style?

 

[M.B.88]

Curious to know about the make up of the Walker Bros. team? How specialised do players need to be to fit into the system? I imagine there's a premium on ball playing ability and offloading in the forwards and speed and elusiveness in the backs?

Put another way, were they to get an NRL gig, how much roster revamping would be needed to make their style truly successful in the NRL? I can't help but think that a number of forwards just wouldn't fit their style?

Well... They are taking about adding a new team to the nrl... perhaps they can hand pick a roster from scratch, creating a whole new harlem globetrotting style team :D would be interesting at least :P

 

[1910]

Curious to know about the make up of the Walker Bros. team? How specialised do players need to be to fit into the system? I imagine there's a premium on ball playing ability and offloading in the forwards and speed and elusiveness in the backs?

Put another way, were they to get an NRL gig, how much roster revamping would be needed to make their style truly successful in the NRL? I can't help but think that a number of forwards just wouldn't fit their style?

That's a which came first situation.

In this case they looked at their side and I know they said if we play traditionally we come last. We have small fast players so how do you play with small fast players and went from there. Which is great coaching- too many just say well we don't have the cattle but Souths are doing this so.....

But their philosophy is use your skills, no player in the NRL is skill less, they have just stopped using them or been coached out of them.

 

[rnabokov]

Another good read on what the Walkers are doing coming in RLW.

Some quotes.

Talking about players running sideways and backwards in the recent Tv game vs the NRL laden Blackhawks.

"What you saw there is a training drill. We play a series of games at training where we do exactly that. We don't mind if we have to go backwards 50 metres. Teams are so hell bent on trying to gain metres but it doesn't matter to us."

"What is the point of doing a great 10 metre charge off your try line when you can throw the ball three passes and make 100m and score?"

"Essentially we challenge what is the norm and challenge what everyone has always done."

"When a team kick off, why does everybody kick it 40 or 50 metres down the field for a half back to catch it and give it to a rampaging front rower who's then going to career into some of your finest?"

"We make everything a contest and kicking the ball straight to them is not a contest. It has only got to go over 10 metres."

Philosophy on coaching:

If you have footwork- use it, if you can off-load, then pop balls, to restrict players from using their God given skills is a travesty.

All Shane quoted.

They should be Bennett's assistants. That stuff is sooo good.

 

[Morkel]

I think a lot of people are missing the point. Sounds to me like the Walker brothers are only doing this because it was the only way to make the team competitive. Even then, it's not as high stakes as the NRL so there was plenty of scope to experiment. Getting them involved in the NRL with regards to their Jets work would come about 1 of 2 ways:

1) Duplicating their team structure:
They'd have to bring in a whole bunch of players to suit the "high risk, high reward" game plan. It'd probably take 2-3 years to build that team and another couple to see it through at its maximum potential. Would an NRL club be willing to put that sort of time in to basically an experiment? If it were the Broncos, I don't think I'd want it to happen - basically gutting a team and going down a path that doesn't necessarily aspire to success, it aspires to enjoyment and entertainment. That sounds all well & good, but I don't want my players high-fiving after a loss because some trick shots almost came off or they did but the opposition still outscored us. Think of what it's like for Warriors supporters - up and down like a yoyo, still no premiership. Now amplify that. I want the Broncos to be successful, consistently, and having a genuine chance at the title, and that chance doesn't live or die by a flashy player's brain-fart.

2) Analysing a team and working to its strengths:
This is kind of what all coaches should be doing anyway, right? What's to say that the Walker brothers are in any way ahead of coaches that know what it takes to win above all else? Remember the pressure in the NRL would far outweight that of the Qld Cup, would they be given the opportunity to structure an experimental style of game, and if so, would they be supported when the inevitable tough times are encountered?

The other possibility would of course be using them as assistant coaches. But I suspect in that instance the coaching would mirror the player style. In that with NRL players, 1910 said that they've had the skills coached out of them or told to keep them under wraps. It'd be likely that, as assistant coaches, they'd have the tendency to encourage flashy, risky plays beaten out of them in favour of reliability and consistency. They'd be back to square one anyway!

 

[1910]

I think a lot of people are missing the point. Sounds to me like the Walker brothers are only doing this because it was the only way to make the team competitive. Even then, it's not as high stakes as the NRL so there was plenty of scope to experiment. Getting them involved in the NRL with regards to their Jets work would come about 1 of 2 ways:

1) Duplicating their team structure:
They'd have to bring in a whole bunch of players to suit the "high risk, high reward" game plan. It'd probably take 2-3 years to build that team and another couple to see it through at its maximum potential. Would an NRL club be willing to put that sort of time in to basically an experiment? If it were the Broncos, I don't think I'd want it to happen - basically gutting a team and going down a path that doesn't necessarily aspire to success, it aspires to enjoyment and entertainment. That sounds all well & good, but I don't want my players high-fiving after a loss because some trick shots almost came off or they did but the opposition still outscored us. Think of what it's like for Warriors supporters - up and down like a yoyo, still no premiership. Now amplify that. I want the Broncos to be successful, consistently, and having a genuine chance at the title, and that chance doesn't live or die by a flashy player's brain-fart.

2) Analysing a team and working to its strengths:
This is kind of what all coaches should be doing anyway, right? What's to say that the Walker brothers are in any way ahead of coaches that know what it takes to win above all else? Remember the pressure in the NRL would far outweight that of the Qld Cup, would they be given the opportunity to structure an experimental style of game, and if so, would they be supported when the inevitable tough times are encountered?

The other possibility would of course be using them as assistant coaches. But I suspect in that instance the coaching would mirror the player style. In that with NRL players, 1910 said that they've had the skills coached out of them or told to keep them under wraps. It'd be likely that, as assistant coaches, they'd have the tendency to encourage flashy, risky plays beaten out of them in favour of reliability and consistency. They'd be back to square one anyway!

You say that like it is a negative? Isn't that what good coaching is- getting a style to suit your players? Is good coaching saying we are going to have a forward dominated style when you don't have Souths' like monsters?

What has McGuire done this year- persisted with the same as last year or now he's got Stewart and Sutton and 4 "halves" are they playing a different style on the edge?

What has Bennett done all through his first stint at the Broncos, evolved. In the 90's he gave skilful fast players free reign after that with unlimited interchange he coached forwards to 4/40 and roll forward.

That's wrong- whole new bunch of players? why would you need that to let players show their skills? Do only some players in the NRL have skills?

When the Walkers took over the Jets were last place in 2010- you know what they did?

Walker Brothers show faith | Ipswich Queensland Times

Re-signed them all.

That is highly offensive, you're talking about a city that has 105 years league history, and you think the Jets don't want to win and high five and love a loss- sorry that that is just ridiculous.

Your claim of not consistent- made the finals all four years with Ben and Shane. (102 games-57 wins- 7 draws)

Simple fact is that they're not doing anything worth getting upset about or disagreeing with- they're letting players use their skills, they're teaching players to develop skills and use them at the right time. Isn't that coaching?

Before the stats overload and percentage free fall, this is what what football was. I suggest you get a dvd of the Broncos or Raiders from the 90's. Players showing skills.

Look at what they've achieved since they took over- took Jets from last to finals every year and never have more Jets been getting NRL gigs.

So we've got consistency for their club and we have player development and progression. Aren't they the two things coaching is about?

 

[Morkel]

Stop getting so defensive. None of those attributes point to having consistency in the NRL. We've seen how easy it is for playmakers to dominate in the ISC yet struggle terribly when faced with the clinical defence of even the poorer NRL teams. It's a totally different competition so I just don't think it would be compatible.

How many times do I need to say that the Jets and Walker brothers deserve praise?

 

[1910]

Stop getting so defensive. None of those attributes point to having consistency in the NRL. We've seen how easy it is for playmakers to dominate in the ISC yet struggle terribly when faced with the clinical defence of even the poorer NRL teams. It's a totally different competition so I just don't think it would be compatible.

How many times do I need to say that the Jets and Walker brothers deserve praise?

I am not defensive at all. You've made claims that are clearly untrue and been proven to be untrue. What's play making got to do with discussing the merits of coaching?

I don't understand your logic- some player makers fail in going from ISC so obviously a coach will? I could just as easily say Cam Smith has made the jump from ISC to NRL quite well so coaches will obviously go well- doesn't make much sense does it.

It always amuses me how negative people are to the ISC especially Broncos' fans. 24 hours ago the team that beat the Warriors was all ISC produced bar 1. Yet when a player comes up for discussion- can't pick him he won't handle the jump up.

Coaching- Stone, Walters, Demetriou and Green all seem to be handling the NRL; yet dispite them and countless before them- oh no that can't be done- impossible when someone's name comes up.

It's like people's memory is wiped clean.

If accusing them of loving losing and being selfish is praise, I'd say most coaching staff would rather you bag them.

 

[Brozilla]

I think the walkers brothers style would get shredded apart in the NRL. There is too many chances of errors which would be exploited so quickly.

 

[Morkel]

I am not defensive at all. You've made claims that are clearly untrue and been proven to be untrue. What's play making got to do with discussing the merits of coaching?

I don't understand your logic- some player makers fail in going from ISC so obviously a coach will? I could just as easily say Cam Smith has made the jump from ISC to NRL quite well so coaches will obviously go well- doesn't make much sense does it.

It always amuses me how negative people are to the ISC especially Broncos' fans. 24 hours ago the team that beat the Warriors was all ISC produced bar 1. Yet when a player comes up for discussion- can't pick him he won't handle the jump up.

Coaching- Stone, Walters, Demetriou and Green all seem to be handling the NRL; yet dispite them and countless before them- oh no that can't be done- impossible when someone's name comes up.

It's like people's memory is wiped clean.

If accusing them of loving losing and being selfish is praise, I'd say most coaching staff would rather you bag them.

We're arguing two different things then. I'm not bagging the coaches' ability, I'm saying that the gameplan, the attack-orientated, high-risk, play-as-you-see-it style, will not translate to the NRL as much as people might think. Hence the comment about playmakers. Their skills might be perfect in the ISC where defensive lines are not as impenetrable, but not in the NRL. Defensive structures are far more rigid for that style to work, especially when you say something about losing 50 metres by running backwards in the hope that you can then score a 100 metre try. To do so would require high-risk plays and if it fails, you're gifting the opposition field position and a smaller, more skilled team will be no match for some regulation big men on your own line.

As for me being negative about the ISC, I don't know how to say this with tact, but it's inferior to the NRL. It certainly has its place, and I respect that it has traditions in Queensland going way back before the NSWRL invaded, but the harsh truth is its best relevance to the NRL and the Broncos (which is the topic of this forum) is as a feeder system and a second-grade comp for fringe first-graders. And when you say "ISC produced", that is why I can't take you seriously on discussions regarding the comp. "Produced" suggests it has been the defining factor in developing and advancing player's skills and abilities, which is simply not true for the vast majority of our players.

Tell me, how many of the players in our 17 played in the ISC without a Broncos contract? All I can think of is Reed and maybe Gillett IIRC. The rest of them were always contracted to the Broncos and were played in the competition when they were no longer eligible for the NYC or had progressed passed the standard of that comp and were being played against more hardened, older opposition as better prep for the NRL. Or to gain confidence or return from injury in an environment not as cut-throat. To suggest otherwise is just twisting facts.

 

[Foordy]

[MENTION=8215]Morkel[/MENTION] IIRC, Alex Glenn played for Burleigh Bears before getting his contract for the Broncos

 

[Morkel]

@Morkel IIRC, Alex Glenn played for Burleigh Bears before getting his contract for the Broncos

Didn't know that. So it was before he played for our U20's? Makes sense that some would have - seeing as there would have been a bunch of teenagers running around for Q Cup teams before the NYC existed.

 

[Foordy]

Didn't know that. So it was before he played for our U20's? Makes sense that some would have - seeing as there would have been a bunch of teenagers running around for Q Cup teams before the NYC existed.

I'm pretty sure it was the year before the NYC started.

 

[ethos]

Yeah, the hype around the Walker bros continues to grow. Haven't seen enough in recent seasons to really comment.

But when comparing styles, it's all about balance. No doubt some of the Jets' skills, ball movement drills/plays would be very useful at NRL level but it'd be a time and place thing in a game.

Compared to ISC, teams are bigger, stronger and quicker. You'd have waay less time to shift the ball, plus players would be a lot more adept at wrapping up the ball in the first place. Any sideways play at the wrong time in the NRL gets clobbered.

Still, reckon the Walkers have a future higher up the chain but probably more as an assistant role.

And more broadly, this whole discussion is why I find ISC more entertaining than NRL these days. More 'footy' in games as opposed to the stock standard structure that every NRL team seems to carry.