[Confirmed] Russell Packer -->Not the Broncos

[Harry Sack]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

*waits for this thread to be split into 2 separate threads by an admin*

 

[lynx000]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

Is implying that he attempted to murder him, when that was not what he was charged with, defamation? I've seen less get pulled up on here.

Yeo, that is one case I would love to run in front of a jury. I have been defamed and my reputation and character has been damaged because some random on the internet says I attempted to murder a guy when in fact I was charged with assault occasioning bodily harm, pleaded guilty and imprisoned.

 

[Cult]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

Yeo, that is one case I would love to run in front of a jury. I have been defamed and my reputation and character has been damaged because some random on the internet says I attempted to murder a guy when in fact I was charged with assault occasioning bodily harm, pleaded guilty and imprisoned.

I didn't mean defamation by law, I meant by the forums rules. Just because someone has plead guilty and been locked up for a crime doesn't mean it's ok to do it. Otherwise it would be ok to imply that the Cronulla Sharks hosted a meth lab for a few weeks during the 2011 season, right?

 

[Nashy]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

I believe his intent was to continue to severely injure (which I do not condone) but I can't see how anyone can say for certainty that his intent was to murder.

Do you not think he would continue stomping if that was his intent?

It's really simple for all those saying it.

Was he charged with attempted murder?

No he wasn't, so those on the attempted murder BS should get off it. As the last few posts point out, it's defamation.

 

[Bucking Beads]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

Lets just all sit in a circle and do what Russell would do. Piss ourselves.

 

[Porthoz]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

I believe his intent was to continue to severely injure (which I do not condone) but I can't see how anyone can say for certainty that his intent was to murder.

Do you not think he would continue stomping if that was his intent?

My last word on this.

There is a difference between the intention and the act.

While he may not have been thinking (which given the alcohol level is quite likely) "I'm gonna murder this guy", he dealt him a blow with a high probability of causing death, after punching him maliciously several times while on the ground, until he was actually pulled of his victim. This is factual and visible on video, as well as a part of court reporting.

How the prosecutor came to his determination of the charges is obviously not known, and I'm not going to speculate much on that, except than for saying that it's common to see that lesser charges are laid to ensure sentencing and/or a plea.
Fact is that the barrister defending Packer did not expect the plea would result in a jail term, but the judge's sentencing indicates that this was no ordinary alcohol fuelled incident. Here are some of Mr. Grogan's quotes, when he dealt the sentence:

Mr Grogan labelled Packer's behaviour "cowardly and deplorable" and said the result could have been much worse.
"You added fuel to the fire by attacking a man lying motionless on the ground, punching him and then standing up and stomping on his head."

The defense also appealed the sentencing and requested bail until then, but the judge refused bail until the appeal's date.

All of the above is what determines not defamation, but merely my opinion:

[h=1]opinion[/h]

[uh-pin-yuh n]

• Synonyms
• Examples
• Word Origin

noun 1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.


2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.


3. the formal expression of a professional judgment: to ask for a second medical opinion.


4. Law. the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case.

5. a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.: to forfeit someone's good opinion.


6. a favorable estimate; esteem: I haven't much of an opinion of him.

In my opinion, the ACT of stomping on someone's head, constitutes a deadly blow or a violent attack with a higher probability of resulting in death, and should be regarded as such.
Whether this was what Packer actually wanted to do is a different matter all together, as no one can really tell, unless they can actually read minds.

Based on all of the above, plus his actions on the field at Suncorp and the way he attempted to take out our biggest club legend, is why I don't want him anywhere near us.

P.S. Sorry for the essay, I find it difficult to summarise...

 

[Foordy]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

You could add [MENTION=2221]Porthoz[/MENTION] that his stats are not great to begin with.

 

[broncos4life]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

My last word on this.

There is a difference between the intention and the act.

While he may not have been thinking (which given the alcohol level is quite likely) "I'm gonna murder this guy", he dealt him a blow with a high probability of causing death, after punching him maliciously several times while on the ground, until he was actually pulled of his victim. This is factual and visible on video, as well as a part of court reporting.

How the prosecutor came to his determination of the charges is obviously not known, and I'm not going to speculate much on that, except than for saying that it's common to see that lesser charges are laid to ensure sentencing and/or a plea.
Fact is that the barrister defending Packer did not expect the plea would result in a jail term, but the judge's sentencing indicates that this was no ordinary alcohol fuelled incident. Here are some of Mr. Grogan's quotes, when he dealt the sentence:



The defense also appealed the sentencing and requested bail until then, but the judge refused bail until the appeal's date.

All of the above is what determines not defamation, but merely my opinion:



In my opinion, the ACT of stomping on someone's head, constitutes a deadly blow or a violent attack with a higher probability of resulting in death, and should be regarded as such.
Whether this was what Packer actually wanted to do is a different matter all together, as no one can really tell, unless they can actually read minds.

Based on all of the above, plus his actions on the field at Suncorp and the way he attempted to take out our biggest club legend, is why I don't want him anywhere near us.

P.S. Sorry for the essay, I find it difficult to summarise...

I won't say anymore on this after this post. I don't disagree with anything in this post and in all of none of it proves his intent was to kill.

Was it a blow that could result in death? Absolutely

Could the victim have died? 100%

Do these two things equal intent to murder? Not at all.

1 punch in the head is a blow that can cause death

A victim of a punch to the head can die.

So are you telling me that anyone on this forum that has thrown a punch did so with the intent to murder someone?

 

[Porthoz]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

I won't say anymore on this after this post. I don't disagree with anything in this post and in all of none of it proves his intent was to kill.

Was it a blow that could result in death? Absolutely

Could the victim have died? 100%

Do these two things equal intent to murder? Not at all.

1 punch in the head is a blow that can cause death

A victim of a punch to the head can die.

So are you telling me that anyone on this forum that has thrown a punch did so with the intent to murder someone?

Maybe our difference of opinion simply comes down to this:

- Punch to the head: 0.5% probability of death (I have no clue what the actual figure is)
- Stomp to the head of an unconscious person after repeated punches: 20% probability of death

Again, I have no idea what the actual percentage is, but I have no doubts the second will be immensely higher than the former, and the probability of it ending in death is much more likely!

 

[vertigo]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

*waits for this thread to be split into 2 separate threads by an admin*

Or closed because the NRL wont register him.

What happened to the moral dilemma thread.

 

[broncos4life]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

Maybe our difference of opinion simply comes down to this:

- Punch to the head: 0.5% probability of death (I have no clue what the actual figure is)
- Stomp to the head of an unconscious person after repeated punches: 20% probability of death

Again, I have no idea what the actual percentage is, but I have no doubts the second will be immensely higher than the former, and the probability of it ending in death is much more likely!

Once agree we don't disagree on these things. But they don't equate to an intention to murder.

Packer isn't too bright at the best of times, is intoxicated and you are trying to convince that in the split seconds that this all occurs he thought to himself "I want to murder this ****, what's the most effective way?"

We are probably arguing over semantics I just have an issue with the declaration he intended to murder. We obviously disagree on this but IMHO that is a huge call. If for instance if he did intend to murder and only spent a year in prison that is attrocious.

What he did is despicable. He seems like a shit **** and my opinion on whether we should sign him as actually changed during this discussion by some valid points made by you and others.

So to summarize I can't see any evidence to suggest he intended to murder someone and just because he is a shit **** I don't see a reason to say so just because we don't like him

 

[Fozz]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

Murder involves premeditation. From everything I've read about the incident, if Packer ended up killing the other bloke he would been charged with manslaughter rather than murder. No such thing as attempted manslaughter.

The first time this rumour about Packer cropped up, I said at the time the board wouldn't sign off on his recruitment because there is more to the Broncos' image than just performance on the field. Sponsors wouldn't be happy with a guy who just spent a year in jail on an assault charge representing the club they have chosen to be associated with.

When Joe Kilroy was around it was an entirely different age, the image is a lot more important now. Packer won't be a Bronco, no matter how badly we need a tough prop.

 

[Huge]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

Just on Packer...time wounds all heals !

I don't really want him at the a Broncos either despite what others may have read ( mis-read ? ) from my earlier posts. I believe in second chances, I believe a person can learn from their mistakes and errors and become a substantially better person and I have some faith that others who have the real story in detail making a judgement that I may not understand.

I can picture Packer being interviewed after a game in 2015/2016 , all sweaty and smiles talking to some former footballer doing sideline duties. Even though a lot of us will remember he did something wrong in the past we may just forget it long enough to hear about the game he's just played.

A lot of people don't know that Mark Geyer did something equally bad as Packer yet after a long period it was all but forgotten and he earned plenty of cash from TV and radio.....time does that, smooths wrinkles like.

 

[Porthoz]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

Murder involves premeditation.

No it doesn't. Australian Crimes ACT:

[h=3]CRIMES ACT 1900 - SECT 18[/h] Murder and manslaughter defined [h=4]18 Murder and manslaughter defined[/h] (1)

(a) Murder shall be taken to have been committed where the act of the accused, or thing by him or her omitted to be done, causing the death charged, was done or omitted with reckless indifference to human life, or with intent to kill or inflict grievous bodily harm upon some person, or done in an attempt to commit, or during or immediately after the commission, by the accused, or some accomplice with him or her, of a crime punishable by imprisonment for life or for 25 years.​

(b) Every other punishable homicide shall be taken to be manslaughter.​

(2)

(a) No act or omission which was not malicious, or for which the accused had lawful cause or excuse, shall be within this section.​

(b) No punishment or forfeiture shall be incurred by any person who kills another by misfortune only.
​

 

[Porthoz]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

Just on Packer...time wounds all heals !

I don't really want him at the a Broncos either despite what others may have read ( mis-read ? ) from my earlier posts. I believe in second chances, I believe a person can learn from their mistakes and errors and become a substantially better person and I have some faith that others who have the real story in detail making a judgement that I may not understand.

I can picture Packer being interviewed after a game in 2015/2016 , all sweaty and smiles talking to some former footballer doing sideline duties. Even though a lot of us will remember he did something wrong in the past we may just forget it long enough to hear about the game he's just played.

A lot of people don't know that Mark Geyer did something equally bad as Packer yet after a long period it was all but forgotten and he earned plenty of cash from TV and radio.....time does that, smooths wrinkles like.

What about his victim, do you think he will have forgotten, or doesn't that matter?
Why should he be subject to his attacker's face on TV, possibly basking in glory, or doesn't that matter?

I believe in rehabilitation and I agree with your first paragraph, but to me, it is imperative that is not at the cost of more suffering from any victim, including psychological, which would certainly come from the above

I believe that with the privilege of being a professional sportsman, especially in a sport with high media coverage, comes a duty of image and character, and I believe that committing a crime of this nature definitely forfeits the right of its author to continue to enjoy such privilege and exposure.

This doesn't mean I want Packer to stay locked-up, or doesn't deserve a second chance, but rehabilitation can and should involve a new humble start, as well as a hard journey to earn the above mentioned rights again.

Give the victim a sense of closure before arguing the aggressor's right.

 

[Broncoman]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

Just on Packer...time wounds all heals !

I don't really want him at the a Broncos either despite what others may have read ( mis-read ? ) from my earlier posts. I believe in second chances, I believe a person can learn from their mistakes and errors and become a substantially better person and I have some faith that others who have the real story in detail making a judgement that I may not understand.

I can picture Packer being interviewed after a game in 2015/2016 , all sweaty and smiles talking to some former footballer doing sideline duties. Even though a lot of us will remember he did something wrong in the past we may just forget it long enough to hear about the game he's just played.

A lot of people don't know that Mark Geyer did something equally bad as Packer yet after a long period it was all but forgotten and he earned plenty of cash from TV and radio.....time does that, smooths wrinkles like.

What did he do I just googled it and didn't find anything. He did generate controversy from his aggressive approach to the game but I would be stunned if he ever stomped on someone's head and punched them over a smoke.

 

[Huge]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

What did he do I just googled it and didn't find anything. He did generate controversy from his aggressive approach to the game but I would be stunned if he ever stomped on someone's head and punched them over a smoke.

Mmmmm......this is difficult ! I am afraid I cannot say because it was handled out of court and out of the spotlight but, I was there ! I knew the victim as we had something in common and that was how we got talking. The most I can say is that it happened in Gosford and the victim was working at the time and completely innocent of wrong doing. Basically a good deed that got punished. Perhaps a pm might be more the way to go....

 

[broncos4life]

re: [Confirmed] Russell Packer --> Panthers

What about his victim, do you think he will have forgotten, or doesn't that matter?
Why should he be subject to his attacker's face on TV, possibly basking in glory, or doesn't that matter?

I believe in rehabilitation and I agree with your first paragraph, but to me, it is imperative that is not at the cost of more suffering from any victim, including psychological, which would certainly come from the above

I believe that with the privilege of being a professional sportsman, especially in a sport with high media coverage, comes a duty of image and character, and I believe that committing a crime of this nature definitely forfeits the right of its author to continue to enjoy such privilege and exposure.

This doesn't mean I want Packer to stay locked-up, or doesn't deserve a second chance, but rehabilitation can and should involve a new humble start, as well as a hard journey to earn the above mentioned rights again.

Give the victim a sense of closure before arguing the aggressor's right.

But that's just real life. Victims will see there attacker on tv or in other scenarios. No one is saying this about mark geyer, kirisome auvaa, Manu mau etc etc etc.

If you believe they all have to go to some menial job with zero exposure then don't bother about rehabilitation, just keep me locked up.

No one is saying the victims has less rights than the aggressor, but you know what, these guys are on tv for 80 minutes a week (less if you only have FTA) so watch something else for those 80 minutes FFS. Or watch and enjoy watching other blokes smash the shit out of them