Copley vs Reed

[mitch222]

Copley is entering his 7th year in first grade (yeah its that many) and still hasn't nailed down a starting spot. If he was better than Jack Reed, Bennett would have him playing centre and not Reed. I like Copley as a player but yeah he needs to move on to get another crack because currently we have two players better than him in the centres in the coaches eyes (and said coach is most likely the best coach the NRL has ever seen).

 

[M.B.88]

Copley is entering his 7th year in first grade (yeah its that many) and still hasn't nailed down a starting spot. If he was better than Jack Reed, Bennett would have him playing centre and not Reed. I like Copley as a player but yeah he needs to move on to get another crack because currently we have two players better than him in the centres in the coaches eyes (and said coach is most likely the best coach the NRL has ever seen).

Exactly

 

[Unbreakable]

In certain cases, I believe they would be.

Hell, the Warriors have been trying to move Hurrell on for some time now. He's just a drain on the salary cap and he isn't getting any better for them.

Then you've got the Tigers who don't have any wingers and really want to improve their defence. So if you can move Nofoaluma and Naiqama out-wide and bring a Reed in, it'd be as good a fit as any.

And with Newcastle, you've got the likes of McManus and Uate who are simply on too much coin. Those are the players that need to go and they need to give Sione Mata'utia the opportunity to develop his game on the wing.

I'm guessing the Tigers will just go with Nofo and Naiq on the wings with Simona & Lawrence in the centres.. Reed and Lawrence are remarkably similar overall, played rep footy 5 years ago, injury prone, late 20's, slow, good defensively. Can't see much of a reason to replace one likeness with another, not worth the trouble.

Knights will go with Mata'utia & Gagai, whether you think it's their best option or not, it's what's happening.

Warriors seem like they would probably get rid of Hurrell if an opportunity arose, but he's on a long ass contract, so I doubt they'll be able to find him a new home.

 

[mitch222]

I virtually agree with all of your assessments of those players, my argument wasn't that they're "Better players", it's that A) Is there enough incentive for their current employer to go to the trouble of finding a new home for them to accommodate Jack Reed? Probably not. and B) Does said employer have enough cap space for 2 years of Jack Reed, in a lot of cases, once again, probably not.

My argument has never been that Jack Reed is bad, it's simply that he's much harder to find a home for when factoring in his age, injury history, contract & inconsistencies on the field.

Age - Reed is 27. Hardly the oldest centre running around by a long shot. Copley is 24. Both are in their prime years.
Injury history - Copley has had just as many injuries as Reed has. In fact, Reed manages to play the season out pretty much every year before having surgery which isn't a bad thing. Reeds shoulders are dodgy but Copleys knee is too.
Contract - If Copley is on 300k then I couldn't see Reed being on anything more that 400k-450k. Add to the fact that the broncos said they would pay some of the load, clubs could come up with what Copley is on now for Reed.
Inconsistencies on the field - Yeah, Copley isn't exactly Mr Consistent. Not saying Reed is but last year he put in a very consistent year and your only as good as your last year. Copley may have had injuries but he blew some golden opportunities to nail down a spot last year.

 

[Unbreakable]

Copley is entering his 7th year in first grade (yeah its that many) and still hasn't nailed down a starting spot. If he was better than Jack Reed, Bennett would have him playing centre and not Reed. I like Copley as a player but yeah he needs to move on to get another crack because currently we have two players better than him in the centres in the coaches eyes (and said coach is most likely the best coach the NRL has ever seen).

Says who? This entire argument has been about Copley being easier to move on than Reed due to the salary cap & contract situations, for all we know Bennett rates Copley much higher than Reed, but was forced to move him on because of Roberts becoming available.

You could tell Bennett wanted to give Copley a chance to outplay Reed last year, but due to injury and Reed playing career best football he didn't really have an opportunity.

 

[mitch222]

Says who? This entire argument has been about Copley being easier to move on than Reed due to the salary cap & contract situations, for all we know Bennett rates Copley much higher than Reed, but was forced to move him on because of Roberts becoming available.

You could tell Bennett wanted to give Copley a chance to outplay Reed last year, but due to injury and Reed playing career best football he didn't really have an opportunity.

If Bennett rated Copley higher than Reed, Reed would be the one leaving. He wouldn't let a talented player go and keep a lesser of a replacement. He would find a spot for him in the team if he was to good to leave out. He told Kev Naiqama to leave Newcastle because he was stuck behind internationals and said he was too good to be not playing first grade. Copley played 9 games last year, he had ample time to prove himself to Bennett.

 

[M.B.88]

If Bennett rated Copley higher than Reed, Reed would be the one leaving. He wouldn't let a talented player go and keep a lesser of a replacement. He would find a spot for him in the team if he was to good to leave out. He told Kev Naiqama to leave Newcastle because he was stuck behind internationals and said he was too good to be not playing first grade. Copley played 9 games last year, he had ample time to prove himself to Bennett.

I really thought that'd be obvious haha

 

[Unbreakable]

Age - Reed is 27. Hardly the oldest centre running around by a long shot. Copley is 24. Both are in their prime years.
Injury history - Copley has had just as many injuries as Reed has. In fact, Reed manages to play the season out pretty much every year before having surgery which isn't a bad thing. Reeds shoulders are dodgy but Copleys knee is too.
Contract - If Copley is on 300k then I couldn't see Reed being on anything more that 400k-450k. Add to the fact that the broncos said they would pay some of the load, clubs could come up with what Copley is on now for Reed.
Inconsistencies on the field - Yeah, Copley isn't exactly Mr Consistent. Not saying Reed is but last year he put in a very consistent year and your only as good as your last year. Copley may have had injuries but he blew some golden opportunities to nail down a spot last year.

Man you're so blind, this is like debating Helen Keller. You literally just reinforced my entire argument and you think that you're helping yours.

Age - Yes, you just confirmed that Reed is 3 years older.
Injury History - Yes, you just confirmed that Reed has chronic shoulder issues whilst Dale has had a lot of bone injuries rather than reoccurring muscle/joint injuries.
Contract - Yes, you just confirmed that Reed would be on more money and has 2 years left, whilst Copley only has 1 year left.
Inconsistencies on the field - Yes, you just confirmed that Reed has had 2 good seasons in his career (2011 & 2015), the others have been riddled with injuries and poor performances.

So, in closing, Jack Reed would be harder to find a home for than Dale Copley. I am done with this argument now, it's just going in circles. Hopefully Jack has another good season for us next year.

 

[Unbreakable]

If Bennett rated Copley higher than Reed, Reed would be the one leaving. He wouldn't let a talented player go and keep a lesser of a replacement. He would find a spot for him in the team if he was to good to leave out. He told Kev Naiqama to leave Newcastle because he was stuck behind internationals and said he was too good to be not playing first grade. Copley played 9 games last year, he had ample time to prove himself to Bennett.

 

[Big Pete]

Knights will go with Mata'utia & Gagai, whether you think it's their best option or not, it's what's happening.

You could have just saved yourself a bunch of trouble and ended it on that.

Reed isn't going anywhere, so of course that's what's happening.

That isn't the point of the discussion. The point is if Reed was available, he'd be a handy addition to all the clubs mitch222 named and the players that were named would have to make room.

 

[theshed]

Without getting involved with either side of the argument, I honestly wonder how much people's opinions is subconsciously based on him being a ginger. I'm sure it skews my opinion at least a little haha.

 

[Unbreakable]

You could have just saved yourself a bunch of trouble and ended it on that.

Reed isn't going anywhere, so of course that's what's happening.

That isn't the point of the discussion. The point is if Reed was available, he'd be a handy addition to all the clubs mitch222 named and the players that were named would have to make room.

That's a lot of hypotheticals.

IF Reed was available and IF one of those clubs wanted him and IF they could afford him or IF they could find someone to dump a player or two on.

That's all I've honestly been trying to portray this entire time, Reed is a harder sell. I'm not sure if you're debating that now or if we're responding to different discussions, I've lost track.

 

[Morkel]

None of us know who is better out of Reed or Copley. Both sides can point to arguments to back up their opinion.

Copley fans will say he almost played Origin. Reed fans will say that it was only because of Qld's injuries and he played himself out of the jersey by dropping every high ball. And that Bennett chose Reed last year. Copley fans will rebut that his best position is centre, not wing (making the high ball frailties irrelevant) and the only reason Reed got the Broncos jersey was because Copley was injured. And then the Copley's injuries are mainly freak accidents and dumb luck, whereas Reed's seem to be recurring or "old man broken body" injuries.

We were in a prime position to get more answers this year, too, before the Roberts signing. BUT, as a final but, Copley isn't gone just yet. We still could see them fight it out for a centre jersey...

 

[Big Pete]

That's a lot of hypotheticals.

IF Reed was available and IF one of those clubs wanted him and IF they could afford him or IF they could find someone to dump a player or two on.

That's all I've honestly been trying to portray this entire time, Reed is a harder sell. I'm not sure if you're debating that now or if we're responding to different discussions, I've lost track.

My mind is doing backflips just thinking about it all.

Basically...

The conversation pivoted from Reed being in this exact context, to a general hypothetical one where Reed was available and clubs had the opportunity to poach him.

From there, it was about balancing your roster and why flashier isn't always better.

Let me hit rewind.

I agree with Unbreakable that Copley is an easier player to sell, but Reed isn't chop liver and I'm sure a few clubs would be interested in him for the right price.

That's my point and that has always been my point.

 

[Unbreakable]

Copley isn't gone just yet. We still could see them fight it out for a centre jersey...

As much as I'd like that, it sounds like he's already got both feet out the door. And it also sounds like we desperately need that $300k cap space that he'd provide by moving on.

 

[broncos4life]

Is that a response?

 

[M.B.88]

As much as I'd like that, it sounds like he's already got both feet out the door. And it also sounds like we desperately need that $300k cap space that he'd provide by moving on.

It's actually for his benefit as to why we're releasing him. If he plays a year in reserves, he won't be able to demand a high price after his contact is up

 

[Berg]

Firstly just to clarify - a couple of people have mentioned copley's injury's and advised that they have been minor. Copley has been struggling with ACL issues for the last 2 years.
Reed's shoulder has been a problem but it has always been contained and didn't really cause him to miss too many games.

In early 2015 WB spoke in a press conference and was asked what he had planned for the season. He said " this season you will see us end up at the top and that will mainly be down to our defence". Now when it comes to deciding between Reed and Copley, i don't think there is much question who is better in defence. Reed played a massive season from centre, did exactly what he was put in that position to do which was provide support between milf and who ever was on the wing. Reed was never in contention to be moved on, if anything they would have looked at maranta before booting Reed.

Due to getting Roberts for a steal, hodgo leaving and vidot going oversea's for WWE, being under the cap was never going to be a problem. Copley was given the ultimatum that he can stay but will play reserve grade and will have to prove himself from there if he wants to play 1st grade - he has decided to go and play in 1st grade in a lineup that will allow him to play 80 minute games which will give him the ability to shine or fail.