Copley vs Reed

[Big Pete]

Re: Broncos Player Movement and Rumours 2016

I never said Copley wouldn't be the easier sell

I agree with Unbreakable that Copley is an easier player to sell,

Long day, b4l?

 

[mitch222]

Re: Broncos Player Movement and Rumours 2016

Name a single team in the NRL at this current point in time that has the salary cap space, positional space, and want for a league average, injury-prone centre entering the post-prime of his career.

Lets start with the teams that would actually take Reed if available

Warriors
Sharks
Parramatta
Titans
Tigers
Souths
Storm
Knights

 

[Unbreakable]

Re: Broncos Player Movement and Rumours 2016

Lets start with the teams that would actually take Reed if available

Warriors
Sharks
Parramatta
Titans
Tigers
Souths
Storm
Knights

Warriors - Kata / Hurrell
Sharks - Bird / Leutele / Beale
Parramatta - Takairangi / Morgan
Titans - Macdonald / Zillman
Tigers - Simona / Nofoaluma / Naiqama
Souths - Auiva'a / Goodwin
Storm - Chambers / Kennar / Blair
Knights - Gagai / Mata'utia

I added a list of notable centres to each of the teams you listed, you can cross off Warriors, Sharks, Tigers & Knights, purely because they already have better (or younger with far more upside) centres than Jack Reed.

As for the other 4 -

Parramatta - Reportedly have very little cap space after the amount they paid Foran & Scott, I'd be shocked if they could take on 2 years of $300k-$350k (Presumably what Reed is on for these last 2 seasons)

Storm - Seem like they'll probably try and run with either Kennar or Blair at left Centre rather than locking up more funds for a minor upgrade.

Titans - Don't seem like they're in a position to want to sign "veterans", look like they're more so after young players to develop that will hopefully make them competitive in 2-4 years time.

Souths - Probably the only realistic destination that you've listed honestly, they want to win in the next 2-3 seasons whilst Inglis & Burgess are still in their prime, should have a little bit of cap space after losing Grant and co.

So, that's 1 team out of the 15 others in the NRL that would be a "realistic" option to dump Jack Reed's contract on, in my eyes.

 

[Big Pete]

With Reed, what you see is what you get. Is he going to be the type of player who is going to turn your organisation around? No, but he can come into a side, hold his own defensively, take a few rucks up and can find the try line when in the vicinity.

That's a lot more that can be said for the following...

Hurrell, Leutele, S. Mata'utia, Takairangi, R. Morgan, MacDonald, Zillman, Simona, K. Naiqama, Nofoaluma, Goodwin, Auva'a, Kennar, C. Blair, Munster.

If Reed was available, which is the key stipulation here, I'm sure there's a few clubs that wouldn't mind having him. A lot of coaches love themselves a bargain, and the top coaches love somebody who is solid and reliable.

 

[Unbreakable]

With Reed, what you see is what you get. Is he going to be the type of player who is going to turn your organisation around? No, but he can come into a side, hold his own defensively, take a few rucks up and can find the try line when in the vicinity.

That's a lot more that can be said for the following...

Hurrell, Leutele, S. Mata'utia, Takairangi, R. Morgan, MacDonald, Zillman, Simona, K. Naiqama, Nofoaluma, Goodwin, Auva'a, Kennar, C. Blair, Munster.

If Reed was available, which is the key stipulation here, I'm sure there's a few clubs that wouldn't mind having him. A lot of coaches love themselves a bargain, and the top coaches love somebody who is solid and reliable.

It's all well and good having old and reliable players in the outside backs, but if you legitimately believe those teams wouldn't prefer Hurrell, Mata'utia, Simona, Nofoaluma, Auva'a over 2 years of late 20's Jack Reed.. I think you're incorrect.

Old and reliable vs Young and potential, I know which one is winning every day of the week, especially in terms of outside backs.

 

[mitch222]

It's all well and good having old and reliable players in the outside backs, but if you legitimately believe those teams wouldn't prefer Hurrell, Mata'utia, Simona, Nofoaluma, Auva'a over 2 years of late 20's Jack Reed.. I think you're incorrect.

Old and reliable vs Young and potential, I know which one is winning every day of the week, especially in terms of outside backs.

All of the best centres in the current generation like Gasnier, Hodges, Lyon, & Tate were all old and reliable. Young and potential only gets you so far in this grade until you either have to step it up and cement your position or lag behind and finish your career in super league or the bush. Some of your examples above are absolutely terrible. Hurrell struggles with consistency (if he was a bronco he would be crucified on here because he is so fucking lazy), Mata'utia didn't progress one bit last year and played on the wing most of the time, Nofaluma is a winger, & Simona is hit and miss at best with the Tigers. I will give Auva'a the benefit of the doubt because he didn't play much last year.
If Reed was so shit as you make him out to be, I hardly think Wayne Bennett of all people would keep selecting him the team. As Pete said before, if he was available, a lot of clubs would not hesitate to take a look at him and some clubs still have money to spare and when the right player comes up for a club, its amazing how often they can find the money when they need it.

 

[Porthoz]

With Reed, what you see is what you get. Is he going to be the type of player who is going to turn your organisation around? No, but he can come into a side, hold his own defensively, take a few rucks up and can find the try line when in the vicinity.

That's a lot more that can be said for the following...

Hurrell, Leutele, S. Mata'utia, Takairangi, R. Morgan, MacDonald, Zillman, Simona, K. Naiqama, Nofoaluma, Goodwin, Auva'a, Kennar, C. Blair, Munster.

If Reed was available, which is the key stipulation here, I'm sure there's a few clubs that wouldn't mind having him. A lot of coaches love themselves a bargain, and the top coaches love somebody who is solid and reliable.

Great endorsement list... :laugh:

 

[broncos4life]

Great endorsement list... :laugh:

The list was to make his point that other clubs would take Reed. He wasn't saying "Hey look at all these other top notch centres that Reed is better than"

 

[Unbreakable]

All of the best centres in the current generation like Gasnier, Hodges, Lyon, & Tate were all old and reliable. Young and potential only gets you so far in this grade until you either have to step it up and cement your position or lag behind and finish your career in super league or the bush. Some of your examples above are absolutely terrible. Hurrell struggles with consistency (if he was a bronco he would be crucified on here because he is so fucking lazy), Mata'utia didn't progress one bit last year and played on the wing most of the time, Nofaluma is a winger, & Simona is hit and miss at best with the Tigers. I will give Auva'a the benefit of the doubt because he didn't play much last year.
If Reed was so shit as you make him out to be, I hardly think Wayne Bennett of all people would keep selecting him the team. As Pete said before, if he was available, a lot of clubs would not hesitate to take a look at him and some clubs still have money to spare and when the right player comes up for a club, its amazing how often they can find the money when they need it.

Oh really, did I do that? Man I must be getting forgetful in my old age, would you mind finding that post for me?

p.s - You're silly, the list of "Old and reliable centres" you listed were all 50x better in attack than Reed, please post rationally.

 

[Porthoz]

The list was to make his point that other clubs would take Reed. He wasn't saying "Hey look at all these other top notch centres that Reed is better than"

 

[mitch222]

Oh really, did I do that? Man I must be getting forgetful in my old age, would you mind finding that post for me?

p.s - You're silly, the list of "Old and reliable centres" you listed were all 50x better in attack than Reed, please post rationally.

You rated players who are shit better than Reed. Therefore, in effect, you are literally saying he is shit. And Reed cant be that bad in attack, he won us a couple of games this year. Bad centres don't do that.

 

[Big Pete]

A solid and reliable player on relatively cheap pay vs Inconsistent, over-paid but young backs.

It isn't as simple as it appears on paper.

Let's go through some of those names, shall we.

Hurrell - The Warriors have been trying to offload him for sometime now. As good as he can be with the ball in hand, without it he's a liability who isn't doing enough off the field to change things. The Warriors already have enough strike, they need somebody who can do a job both with and without the ball.

Mata'utia - He isn't ready for the position just yet. Some of his reads in defence were painfully awful and even with ball in hand he struggled to threaten. He needs to spend time on the wing to learn about the intricacies of first grade football and to give Newcastle some resistance down their left hand edge. Newcastle also need to consider letting McManus and Uate go to clear up some space for their forward pack.

Simona - Struggles to stay on the field for any length of time and hasn't really progressed as a player. His time is beginning to run out, ala Copley.

Nofoaluma - Has barely played centres in first grade and when he has, he's struggled with some horrid efforts in defence. Right now, he appears far more comfortable on the wing, which is good for the Tigers as they barely have anybody capable of playing in that position at the moment. Having a good defensive centre would surely help Moses out with his game and would provide the Tigers with a better balance in their backline.

Auva'a - Something of a loose cannon, both on and off the field. He's a touch and go player at the moment and I wouldn't be surprised if he's shown the door.

The key to roster management is balance. Yes, you need to have a player like James Roberts who is still learning the game on one side, but you've also got to have players who will get the job done for you. If you look at some of the premiership winning teams, they're riddled with players like that. Michael De Vere, Luke Phillips, Dane Nielsen, Glenn Hall, Kane Linnett etc. etc.

 

[Unbreakable]

You rated players who are shit better than Reed. Therefore, in effect, you are literally saying he is shit. And Reed cant be that bad in attack, he won us a couple of games this year. Bad centres don't do that.

You might want go find a dictionary and research the meaning of literally.

p.s - I never called Reed bad, I called him average, which he is.

 

[Unbreakable]

A solid and reliable player on relatively cheap pay vs Inconsistent, over-paid but young backs.

It isn't as simple as it appears on paper.

Let's go through some of those names, shall we.

Hurrell - The Warriors have been trying to offload him for sometime now. As good as he can be with the ball in hand, without it he's a liability who isn't doing enough off the field to change things. The Warriors already have enough strike, they need somebody who can do a job both with and without the ball.

Mata'utia - He isn't ready for the position just yet. Some of his reads in defence were painfully awful and even with ball in hand he struggled to threaten. He needs to spend time on the wing to learn about the intricacies of first grade football and to give Newcastle some resistance down their left hand edge. Newcastle also need to consider letting McManus and Uate go to clear up some space for their forward pack.

Simona - Struggles to stay on the field for any length of time and hasn't really progressed as a player. His time is beginning to run out, ala Copley.

Nofoaluma - Has barely played centres in first grade and when he has, he's struggled with some horrid efforts in defence. Right now, he appears far more comfortable on the wing, which is good for the Tigers as they barely have anybody capable of playing in that position at the moment. Having a good defensive centre would surely help Moses out with his game and would provide the Tigers with a better balance in their backline.

Auva'a - Something of a loose cannon, both on and off the field. He's a touch and go player at the moment and I wouldn't be surprised if he's shown the door.

The key to roster management is balance. Yes, you need to have a player like James Roberts who is still learning the game on one side, but you've also got to have players who will get the job done for you. If you look at some of the premiership winning teams, they're riddled with players like that. Michael De Vere, Luke Phillips, Dane Nielsen, Glenn Hall, Kane Linnett etc. etc.

I virtually agree with all of your assessments of those players, my argument wasn't that they're "Better players", it's that A) Is there enough incentive for their current employer to go to the trouble of finding a new home for them to accommodate Jack Reed? Probably not. and B) Does said employer have enough cap space for 2 years of Jack Reed, in a lot of cases, once again, probably not.

My argument has never been that Jack Reed is bad, it's simply that he's much harder to find a home for when factoring in his age, injury history, contract & inconsistencies on the field.

 

[Porthoz]

You rated players who are shit better than Reed. Therefore, in effect, you are literally saying he is shit. And Reed cant be that bad in attack, he won us a couple of games this year. Bad centres don't do that.

So have Hurrell, Simona or Mata'Utia for that matter.

Although BP is correct in his assessment, I believe those players are better than Reed by a fair margin.
Hurrell probably needs a change of environment, and a coach capable of not only take advantage of his qualities, but reign in his attitude.
Simona is a big question mark in relation to his health, but if he manages to stay on the park, he will climb up the ranks quickly. Copley is in the same train imo.
Mata'Utia is the most promising imo, but it will all depend if the Knights are able to steer the club away from Titans basket case levels.

 

[M.B.88]

Copley is a good player and so is Reed, both have their own strengths and weaknesses that need to be seen from both sides instead of pointing at one and saying oh that's the dud. Personally I think neither have a morgage on a spot in first grade as they aren't as great as made out to be and there is growing competition around them that are younger and probably even more hungry. As Copley is heading elsewhere, I want to make it clear, Reed's head shouldn't be safe from the chopping board either, 2016 needs to be the season he justifies remaining.

So this is where everyone's been hiding today haha

Also, reed proved his worth last year. And to Bennett. Which is enough for me (but he also proved it to me too, I'm not blinded to when a player turns it around)

 

[Big Pete]

A) Is there enough incentive for their current employer to go to the trouble of finding a new home for them to accommodate Jack Reed? Probably not.

In certain cases, I believe they would be.

Hell, the Warriors have been trying to move Hurrell on for some time now. He's just a drain on the salary cap and he isn't getting any better for them.

Then you've got the Tigers who don't have any wingers and really want to improve their defence. So if you can move Nofoaluma and Naiqama out-wide and bring a Reed in, it'd be as good a fit as any.

And with Newcastle, you've got the likes of McManus and Uate who are simply on too much coin. Those are the players that need to go and they need to give Sione Mata'utia the opportunity to develop his game on the wing.

B) Does said employer have enough cap space for 2 years of Jack Reed, in a lot of cases, once again, probably not.

I was going off the 'if available' stipulation mitch222 used.

 

[M.B.88]

Anyone ever think that reed has just been made to look "above average" because he's being compared to Hodges all this time? I don't. . But i think he's seen as average because he's not "explosive". Though he is tough, resilient and smart. He's a great defender and team player. .

Or perhaps the fact that his unlucky shoulder issues have hampered his preseasons in recent times and therfore isn't getting the best out of his game?

Or even give the guy credit for being the player he his BECAUSE of his commitment dealing with those shoulder issues, often playing on in the game with dislocations? ****. That's a guy who commits to his job, commits for his team. I'd prefer him to plenty of those other centre's that have been mentioned. He's a team player and I'd want him lining up next to me that's for sure.