Darren Lockyer

JT is the last one picked out of Lockyer, Cronk, JT .

JT is so overated honestly.
 
I rewatched the 2011 final v dragons for the first time last night. He was the perfect playmaker. His kick choice was perfect every time. He threw one dud pass at Reeds feet but other than that it was flawless.
 
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Wolfie said:
Smith imo is on a par with Locky. While i like JT, i think he is just below Locky.
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I've got Smith finishing just above Locky (and Wally) for mine and the reason is all to do with the defensive workload he got through for basically his entire career. He was arguably just as influential and prolific in attack as Wally, Lockyer, JT & Joey or any other all time great, but none of the guys in this conversation have ever managed to also defend like Cam Smith did too. For me, that certainly makes him the greatest player of the modern era and very likely the best of all time.
 
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kooly87 said:
I've got Smith finishing just above Locky (and Wally) for mine and the reason is all to do with the defensive workload he got through for basically his entire career. He was arguably just as influential and prolific in attack as Wally, Lockyer, JT & Joey or any other all time great, but none of the guys in this conversation have ever managed to also defend like Cam Smith did too. For me, that certainly makes him the greatest player of the modern era and very likely the best of all time.
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In my opinion, Smith is GOAT. A guy in his position with his size should never have made it and yet he made EVERYONE he played with better.
 
Sproj said:
In my opinion, Smith is GOAT. A guy in his position with his size should never have made it and yet he made EVERYONE he played with better.
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I absolutely agree, though I do feel you could say the same for the other guys on that list too for the most part.

It really for me does come down to his defence. Rugby League is about both attack and defence and whilst Smith is the equal of all the others in attack, he's on his own way out in front when it comes to defence and for me that makes him the greatest.
 
If I were a Storm supporter I'd pick Smith. If a Cowboys supporter I'd go for JT. As a Broncos supported, it has to be Locky.

Objectively, if that's at all possible, I'd still go for Lockyer. Of those 3, their ability to lead their teams, and keep it together in adversity is what stands out, however with Lockyer, what makes him my number 1 is his ability to pick the right moment for the right play with vision and execution under immense pressure.

What comes to mind as the perfect example of Lockyer's greatness was that kick for Kemp in the last minute v Eels in, I think 2008. That was a staggering achievement which sets Lockyer apart from the rest.

Here is what Kemp had to say:

“People might assume that there is this momentous feeling of playing with Locky, but it is actually the opposite,” Kemp explained.

“It is the lack of thinking about who you are playing with that Lockyer brought. What I mean by that is when he was on the field you didn’t have to worry about anything.

“You weren’t thinking about who your half or forwards were because when Lockyer is on the field he has got us. He’s our leader.

“Everything was sweet. If we lost that week we would win next week. It’s all good. That is the confidence that he instilled. The structure and his constant ability to get us out of trouble and keep us all on the same page.

“When he talked everyone would listen, but he led more with his actions.”

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...y/news-story/35c3c514e04a1fedb54bfe82fbf6207f
 
Wolfie said:
Smith imo is on a par with Locky. While i like JT, i think he is just below Locky.
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The thing with Smith is that no one has had the level gamesmanship he has. No other player has been able to so expertly bend the rules and manipulate officials. Some will say this is why he isn’t the GOAT, others will say this is an aspect to his Rugby League skill set that none other can compare.
 
theshed said:
The thing with Smith is that no one has had the level gamesmanship he has. No other player has been able to so expertly bend the rules and manipulate officials. Some will say this is why he isn’t the GOAT, others will say this is an aspect to his Rugby League skill set that none other can compare.
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I can really only think of Wally as having a similar level of influence and gamesmanship over both his own team as well as the opposition and even the officials to an extent.
 
GKDonkey said:
Is there any games in particular I should watch where he just controls and wins the game for us
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The 2006 prelim. Despite the scoreboard at halftime, he was in control that entire game. The maestro.
Same for the Semi final vs the Knights where he put 50 on Joey's knights in his last ever play off game. (lulz).

I also recommend Game 3 2011. QLD was unstoppable in that first half, and it was Lockyer imo leading the way.
 
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kooly87 said:
I've got Smith finishing just above Locky (and Wally) for mine and the reason is all to do with the defensive workload he got through for basically his entire career. He was arguably just as influential and prolific in attack as Wally, Lockyer, JT & Joey or any other all time great, but none of the guys in this conversation have ever managed to also defend like Cam Smith did too. For me, that certainly makes him the greatest player of the modern era and very likely the best of all time.
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I've got Locky ahead of them all, because he won Golden Boot as best player in the world, first at 1 and then at 6.
Nobody else to my knowledge has ever won Golden Boot twice, in different positions, but I might be wrong.
 
Another thing with Lockyer is he produced really good games at international level when most of the best players treated it like a holiday, you ask any Brit who the best player is and it's clearly Lockyer.

I don't think you will ever see a player develop from an Elite Fullback to an elite Playmaking Half like how Locky did. Even Johns doesn't understand it, as he is completely convinced the best Playmakers have to be a playmaker from the start.
 
Mustafur said:
Another thing with Lockyer is he produced really good games at international level when most of the best players treated it like a holiday, you ask any Brit who the best player is and it's clearly Lockyer.

I don't think you will ever see a player develop from an Elite Fullback to an elite Playmaking Half like how Locky did. Even Johns doesn't understand it, as he is completely convinced the best Playmakers have to be a playmaker from the start.
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although TBF, Locky came to the club as a half, and since we had Alf and Kevvie there, due to how naturally talented he was, we manufactured him into a fullback to get him into the team.

what always gets me is people talking about how Slater changed the way fullbacks played ... he didn't ... Lockyer did. he pretty much played as a second 5/8 way before Billy was anywhere near first grade
 
theshed said:
The thing with Smith is that no one has had the level gamesmanship he has. No other player has been able to so expertly bend the rules and manipulate officials. Some will say this is why he isn’t the GOAT, others will say this is an aspect to his Rugby League skill set that none other can compare.
Click to expand...

As much as it pains me to say it, he's the best i've seen i'd have to say. Blokes like Locky and JT had a lot more natural ability than Smith, but Smith has something i just cant put my finger on that makes him the best. He is obviously an extremely intelligent player, but ability wise you wouldnt say he has the natural skills Locky has.
 
Foordy said:
although TBF, Locky came to the club as a half, and since we had Alf and Kevvie there, due to how naturally talented he was, we manufactured him into a fullback to get him into the team.

what always gets me is people talking about how Slater changed the way fullbacks played ... he didn't ... Lockyer did. he pretty much played as a second 5/8 way before Billy was anywhere near first grade
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It's just another example of the NSWRL media trying to diminish his legacy.

As you mentioned Lockyer came in as a 5/8 but was able to play fullback. That is now a viable option that every team looks to do.

Barba, Milford, Moylan (maybe?), Albert Kelly, Presto, Cody Walker, Corey Norman and many more came through as halves, but Lockyer completely reinvented the position to basically be the modern 5/8 and every team looks at that as a viable option whenever a 6 (usually undersized) that can run a bit comes through the juniors.

Hell they even look to grab fullbacks that can ball play and try to turn them into halves, because Lockyer did it. Darius, Khunt (was ear marked for it), Inglis, Hayne, Hoffman (lol @ Griffin). Ok last one was a joke, but every commentator queries whether a current fullback will transition to 6 as they get older and running becomes harder

Basically Lockyer has everyone looking at the two positions as interchangeable. If that's not changing the position... let alone the game then I dont know what the **** is
 
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