Darrren Lockyer - Immortal?

[lynx000]

Hi all, just thought I would kick off the debate about Lockyer's career. There was a lot of talk south of the border about Andrew Johns and whether he should have been made one of the immortals even a short period after he retired. I don't mean to get on the Johns v. Langer or Johns v. Lockyer bandwagon, but using him as a good comparison point, it would seem to me (through my maroon and yellow eyes) that Lockyer would be more deserving of being the next one to join the immortals (when he retires).

I know there are statistics, statistics and damned lies, but when you compare their two careers, I believe Darren comes out on top.

Andrew Johns
Club career

Team Matches Tries Goals Field Goals Points
Newcastle Knights 1993-2007 249 80 917 22 2,176
World Club Challenge 2002 1 2 3 0 14
Warrington Wolves 2005 3 1 12 1 29

Representative career

Team Matches Tries Goals Field Goals Points
Country Origin 1995-1996, 2003 3 1 7 0 18
New South Wales 1995-2000, 2002-2003, 2005 23 4 37 4 94
Australia 1995-2003, 2005-2006 27 12 90 0 228

Representative honours
• Test Matches - 20 (1995-4, 1996-2, 1997-1, 1998-3, 1999-1, 2000-1, 2001-4, 2002-1, 2003-1, 2005-2, 2006-1) - captained in 2 matches (2002-2003)
• State Of Origin - captained in 6 matches (2002-2003)
• Country Origin : 3 (1995, 1996, 2003) - captained in 1 match (2003)
• World Cups : 1995 and 2000 (1995 World Cup Matches Counted as Test Matches. 2000 Matches did not)
• Kangaroo tour : 2001 (All matches counted as Test Matches)
Awards
• Dally M winner : 3 (1998, 1999, 2002)
• Provan-Summons Medal winner : 5 (1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002)
• Clive Churchill Medal : 1 (2001)
• Player of the Series Australia v Great Britain 2001
• Most Valuable Player in 1995 World Cup
• Rugby League Week's Player of the Year : 3 (1998, 1999, 2002)


Darren Lockyer

Club career

Team Matches Tries Goals Field Goals Points
Brisbane Broncos 1995-2009 300 113 341 17 1,151


Representative career

Team Matches Tries Goals Field Goals Points
Queensland Tri-Series 1997 2 1 0 2
Queensland 27 7 22 1 73
Australia
Australia - Super League 37
4 33
2 64
2 2
1 196
13


Brisbane Broncos
First Grade Debut v Eels Round 13, 1995 (Broncos won 60-14).
Club Rookie of the Year 1995
Member of the 1997 Super League World Club Challenge winning Broncos side (Broncos defeated Hunter Mariners 36-12).
Member of the 3rd Broncos Premiership Winning Team in 1997 (Broncos defeated Sharks 26-8, Lockyer scored 5 goals; 10 points).
Most points in one season: 272 in 1998
Member of the 4th Broncos Premiership Winning Team in 1998 (Broncos defeated Bulldogs 38-12, Lockyer scored 5 goals; 10 points).
Member of the 5th Broncos Premiership Winning Team in 2000 (Broncos defeated Roosters 14-6)
Clive Churchill Medal Winner 2000
Club Player of the Year 2002,2003
Changed Position from Fullback to Five-Eighth at start of 2004 at request of Wayne Bennett
Captain 2005-present
Dally M. Medal Five-Eighth of the Year 2006
Dally M. Medal Representitive Player of the Year 2006
Highest Ever Brisbane Point-Scorer with 1,220 Club Points (as of End of 2007 Season)
Club Best Back Award 2001,2002,2003,2006
Member of the 6th Broncos Premiership Winning Team in 2006 and also Captain (Broncos defeated Storm 15-8, Lockyer scored 2 goals and 1 field goal).
Highest capped Broncos player
Dally M. Medal Five-Eighth of the Year 2007

Queensland Maroons
(Correct to 5 July 2007)
Played in 27 State of Origin Games
Man of the Match 3 times
Captained in 13 State of Origin Games
Wally Lewis Medal for player of the series, 2006
Part of the Series Winning Sides in 1998, 2001, 2006 and 2007 (also drawn series in 1999 and 2002)
Captain of the Series Winning Sides in 2001, 2006 and 2007

Australian Kangaroos
37 Test Matches for Australia
Played in 4 test matches during the 1997 Super League Season (2 tries; 2 goals; 1 field goal; 13 points)
Australian Kangaroos Captain 2003-present (20 of his 36 games as captain)
27 Tries
2nd Highest Kangaroos try-Scorer behind Ken Irvine (33 tries).
9 World Cup Matches for Australia
2 Tries and 4 Goals in World Cup Matches
Golden Boot Award for International Player of the Year 2003
Golden Boot Award for International Player of the Year 2006

In fact, if DL keeps going the way he has been, there is at least an argument that could be made that he would go down as one of the greatest league players we have ever seen.

Not only has he dominated for his club, state and country, he has done it for longer than Johns and he has done it over two different positions. He also has not been tainted by drugs as was Johns.

What do you all think?

 

[Coxy]

I definitely think Lockyer has to be an immortal.

However, Johns will get there first, simply because a) NSW officials will make sure of it, and b) he's been retired longer already.

To be an immortal you have to be retired a minimum of 5 years I think. Johns reaches 5 years retirement in 2012 I think. Lockyer may still be playing then!

 

[Hamm.0]

I think Langer, Lockyer and Johns should all be Immortals in due time.

On a tangent, does anybody rate any forwards from modern football who could be nominated as an immortal? The first names that spring to my mind are Roach, Webcke, Pearce. Thoughts?

 

[lynx000]

Once again it might be club bias coming in, but I would pick Webcke, Pearce, Roach in that order out of those three. What about Bradley Clyde, I thought he was an awesome back rower at his peak?

 

[lynx000]

I definitely think Lockyer has to be an immortal.

However, Johns will get there first, simply because a) NSW officials will make sure of it, and b) he's been retired longer already.

To be an immortal you have to be retired a minimum of 5 years I think. Johns reaches 5 years retirement in 2012 I think. Lockyer may still be playing then!

And you're probably right again Coxy, but it sticks in my throat a little about Johns being made an immortal. Initially he could not even get the half back position in the NSW side, remember him getting decked when he was playing hooker?

 

[Coxy]

Yeah, for some reason forwards just don't get the accolades of the flashy backs (the old pigs vs backs argument). The only forward in the immortals (correct me if I'm wrong) is John Raper.

Or is Artie Beetson there too?

In any case, Roach wouldn't be a chance IMO, but Pearce almost certainly, possibly Webcke, Clyde and Fittler (who IMO was at his best at lock) too.

 

[Fozz]

Yeah, Beetson became an Immortal in 2004.

 

[schmix]

I think Lockyer deserves it more than Johns (admittedly coming from a totally biased perspective), but I think they'll probably both get it in the end. Would like to see Langer, and maybe one or two forwards (Webcke) get in there first.

Any chance of a coach getting in? Jack Gibson has to be a shoe-in if possible, and Bennett down the track.

 

[OXY-351]

Any chance of a coach getting in? Jack Gibson has to be a shoe-in if possible, and Bennett down the track.

Surely Gibson would be a dead set certainty to be the first coach chosen if they ever induct a coach.

 

[Professor47]

You know, I'm a bit drunk when I'm saying this, but I think it would be a disgrace is Lockyer is not named an immortal later down the track, I mean, if he hasn't been 'the player' of the last decade then I'm not a Broncos supporter. Fair dinkum, he's been the best bar none over the last DECADE. 1998-2008 Enough said.
I'm worried he won't get it because they don't seem to give him the accolades (NSW media/journalism) I mean, how many games have the Broncos won because of him, I don't think non-bronco supporters see that, and esp the Dally M judges (grrr) I mean, we all know Dally M is full of shit but it's a shame Locky doesn't get the points, he's a real reason to winning some of those games. Anytime Thursto/Johns/Slater/C Smith have a slight blunder, BANG 3 points, never for the D man though.

 

[gUt]

Meninga should be the next "Immortal", whatever that actually means, and Lockyer deserves it down the track too.

 

[Hamm.0]

Meninga should be the next "Immortal", whatever that actually means, and Lockyer deserves it down the track too.

was circulating RLW were going to name him as an Immortal. For one reason or another that never eventuated.

The Immortals were/are named by Rugby League Week and are in no way an "official" NRL franchise. They bloody should be, the NRL/ARL should definetly have an Immortal category in the Hall of Fame, reserved for the most elite.

FTR, Beetson is an immortal and gUt, you are 100% correct that Meninga should in fact be the next Immortal. His name was mention back in 2005 as a rumour was circulating RLW were going to name him as an Immortal. For one reason or another that never eventuated. eusa_think

 

[Nashy]

Re Johns.

No drug abuser who abused diring his career should ever be an immortal. Ever.

 

[BroncoMatt]

Meninga should be the next "Immortal", whatever that actually means, and Lockyer deserves it down the track too.

was circulating RLW were going to name him as an Immortal. For one reason or another that never eventuated.

The Immortals were/are named by Rugby League Week and are in no way an "official" NRL franchise. They bloody should be, the NRL/ARL should definetly have an Immortal category in the Hall of Fame, reserved for the most elite.

FTR, Beetson is an immortal and gUt, you are 100% correct that Meninga should in fact be the next Immortal. His name was mention back in 2005 as a rumour was circulating RLW were going to name him as an Immortal. For one reason or another that never eventuated. eusa_think

Short term memory loss Hampo?

 

[Kimlo]

No, If Meninga isn't an immortal then Lockyer/Johns (esp Johns) don't deserve it any more than him.

 

[rnabokov]

Lockyer? What's he dun?

Dane Carlaw!

 

[Flutterby]

I don't think that Johns is necessarily a shoe in for immortal status, I remember when it was being discussed a couple of years back a number of the current immortals were saying that they wouldn't want him to be made one as they believe a players off-field reputation needs to be as much of a consideration as on-field performance and they felt that John's drug use wasn't a good example. I don't think they get a vote, but I think their feelings would be considered. Also I believe there is something in there about the long-term effect you have had on the game, I know the criteria strictly says 5 years minimum retired, but I think they like to wait longer than that - if people who may not really have seen you play in your prime are still talking about you as one of the greatest players, then it's probably a good sign of your footballing immortality.

FTR I agree Lockyer will be made an immortal one day, I aslo think Meninga should be and Webbie and Bob Linder.

 

[lynx000]

And sorry to DL for undercutting his test matches, apparently it is 46 tonight. And I am going to be there woot!!!!