FOOTBALL English Premier League 23/24 Discussion

[Brocko]

I think you'll find that most United fans wouldn't have minded McTominay staying, but just not as a starter which he wanted. Also, he wanted and is far better suited to playing higher in midfield where we can't give him that many minutes.

He wasn't helping midfield depth at all if he can't play 6 or 8 to a level needed for United.

In 10, we now have Bruno, Mount, Eriksen and Zirkzee that can play there. Where was McTominay going to get minutes bar coming on late due to being tall?

 

[The True King]

I think you'll find that most United fans wouldn't have minded McTominay staying, but just not as a starter which he wanted. Also, he wanted and is far better suited to playing higher in midfield where we can't give him that many minutes.

Every player wants to be a starter haha. Most players at big clubs accept the reality that they're in some sort of rotation unless they are world class.

Broncsfan just laid out your squad and apparently there's not much behind Bruno to play in the 10. If McTominay is suited to playing further up then there would have to be minutes available there?

 

[The True King]

I think you'll find that most United fans wouldn't have minded McTominay staying, but just not as a starter which he wanted. Also, he wanted and is far better suited to playing higher in midfield where we can't give him that many minutes.

He wasn't helping midfield depth at all if he can't play 6 or 8 to a level needed for United.

In 10, we now have Bruno, Mount, Eriksen and Zirkzee that can play there. Where was McTominay going to get minutes bar coming on late due to being tall?

I think we disagree here.

You're telling me he wouldn't be adequate back up to Mainoo/Mount in midfield 8 roles but at the same time he's good enough to be part of Napoli's midfield rotation?

 

[Brocko]

Every player wants to be a starter haha. Most players at big clubs accept the reality that they're in some sort of rotation unless they are world class.

Broncsfan just laid out your squad and apparently there's not much behind Bruno to play in the 10. If McTominay is suited to playing further up then there would have to be minutes available there?

Think I edited after you replied, but there was never going to be big minutes at 10.

Bruno, Mount, Eriksen and Zirkzee can all play there and I'd argue all are better there than McTominay anyways.

Add in the fact that a sale of McTominay was all profit, he was surplus as he was tried deeper and wasn't good enough.

The thin midfield comments are at 6 and 8 for proven talent in those spots. When you look at it objectively, we sold a 4th string 10 for a starting 6 where a signing was desperately needed. That just makes sense. Doesn't mean we wouldn't be better off with another 8 or 6 though.

8 - Mainoo and at an absolute pinch these days Eriksen. Mount has to have been bought to play this as the signing makes 0 sense, but it hasn't worked. I have a feeling we might see it again with Ugarte at some point and 2 creatives in Mount/Bruno.

6 - Until 4 hours ago, Casemiro. That's it.

 

[Brocko]

I think we disagree here.

You're telling me he wouldn't be adequate back up to Mainoo/Mount in midfield 8 roles but at the same time he's good enough to be part of Napoli's midfield rotation?

You simply can't have watched any United under Ole if you think he is good enough to play 6 or 8 at a high level.

He could end up doing well in these positions in Italy, but it didn't work at United.

 

[The True King]

You simply can't have watched any United under Ole if you think he is good enough to play 6 or 8 at a high level.

He could end up doing well in these positions in Italy, but it didn't work at United.

Seen alot of him. He's limited but I quite like him as a player, so maybe I'm a little bias.

I'll try and succinctly summarise the things that don't make sense (to me):
- United depth in midfield positions is thin
- McTominay can play across all midfield roles, effectiveness varies
- United fans think his best position is 10 (where they have depth)
- Napoli have signed him. They don't play with a 10
- United sold him cause 'he wanted' to be a starter
- He won't start for Napoli, unless he gets in front of Lobotka
- Lobotka plays as an 8
- United fans say he's not good enough to be an 8 for them
- Napoli are a better side than United

He's effectively gone from being a depth option at United to a depth option at Napoli.

The only logical reason to sell was the profit situation, which makes absolute sense UNLESS your midfield depth is thin without him, which it now is.

 

[The True King]

You simply can't have watched any United under Ole if you think he is good enough to play 6 or 8 at a high level.

He could end up doing well in these positions in Italy, but it didn't work at United.

I think he's a better 8 and 6 than Eriksen. I also think he's a better 8 than Ugarte or Casemiro.

 

[Brocko]

The only logical reason to sell was the profit situation, which makes absolute sense UNLESS your midfield depth is thin without him, which it now is.

Which allowed a purchase of a 6 that was very much needed.

I think what I'm getting at is all 3 things can be true. He provided some depth but he also provided transfer budget badly needed to improve at cdm.

- McTomiany covered a few positions in midfield: True
- McTominay sale was pure profit which allowed a purchase in a position that was needed: True
- McTominay sale weakens depth in other midfield spots: True

Decision was, which do you want more right now, a depth option or do you want a starting quality 6 with Casemiro on his last legs?

United decided at this moment they should take a starter and worry about the depth later, or fast track someone like Collyer.

 

[Brocko]

I think he's a better 8 and 6 than Eriksen. I also think he's a better 8 than Ugarte or Casemiro.

Depends what you want I guess. I'd have kept Scott over Eriksen for what it's worth, but Eriksen was never leaving. Probably on too much for wages and nobody was coming in for him. His sale would have been pure profit too.

Eriksen keeps the ball better and is a better passer, but he is definitely not a ball winner of any note and is far less mobile than Scott.

As for being better at 8 then Casemiro and Ugarte well yeah. Casemiros passing might still be ok but he hasn't got the legs for box 2 box, and Ugarte progressive/creative passing isn't that crash hot. But neither of them would be playing 8 so it doesn't really matter.

 

[The True King]

Depends what you want I guess. I'd have kept Scott over Eriksen for what it's worth, but Eriksen was never leaving. Probably on too much for wages and nobody was coming in for him. His sale would have been pure profit too.

Eriksen keeps the ball better and is a better passer, but he is definitely not a ball winner of any note and is far less mobile than Scott.

As for being better at 8 then Casemiro and Ugarte well yeah. Casemiros passing might still be ok but he hasn't got the legs for box 2 box, and Ugarte progressive/creative passing isn't that crash hot. But neither of them would be playing 8 so it doesn't really matter.

Yeah I don't really see Eriksen as being good depth. He's abit like Endo for us (albeit more 8 than 6) in that I see his only true value in limited mins off the bench and experience for cup games with the kids. Quality wise its a huge drop off, as you say he just doesn't have the mobility anymore to be effective in the prem.

I certainly wouldn't want him 3rd choice in my midfield rotation when playing with two number 8's. Its inevitable one of Mount/Mainoo will miss games and you will end up relying on him.. Maybe Rabiot can solve that issue.

I really don't know what to make of Ugarte. The potential is there but he's got his work cut out for him if he's expected to be starting regularly and improving your style of play. Just my humble opinion, but on the balance of all round play I think its only a marginal upgrade on Casemiro.

 

[Super Freak]

Looking at City's transfer window, they really didn't do much especially in the centre forward department. I think there's a bit of concern about the legal troubles they're going through at the moment.

They sold Alvarez but they didn't really sign anyone to replace him. I'm very surprised they didn't sign Toney or Osimhen, hell even Watkins. If they lose Haaland to a bad injury, they're in a tough spot with the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool challenging. Take away his goals in previous years and they lose quite a few games.

Then you consider the fact they have CL football, League Cup, FA Cup on top of Premier League. They're still favourites to win it, but they look as vulnerable as they have in years and this could be Arsenal/Liverpool's best chance in years.

Meanwhile Arsenal have made some good signings. They really didn't need to do much.

 

[The True King]

Looking at City's transfer window, they really didn't do much especially in the centre forward department. I think there's a bit of concern about the legal troubles they're going through at the moment.

They sold Alvarez but they didn't really sign anyone to replace him. I'm very surprised they didn't sign Toney or Osimhen, hell even Watkins. If they lose Haaland to a bad injury, they're in a tough spot with the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool challenging. Take away his goals in previous years and they lose quite a few games.

Then you consider the fact they have CL football, League Cup, FA Cup on top of Premier League. They're still favourites to win it, but they look as vulnerable as they have in years and this could be Arsenal/Liverpool's best chance in years.

Meanwhile Arsenal have made some good signings. They really didn't need to do much.

They signed the best winger in La Liga from last season. Gundo is huge too, such an underrated player

 

[Brocko]

Looking at City's transfer window, they really didn't do much especially in the centre forward department. I think there's a bit of concern about the legal troubles they're going through at the moment.

They sold Alvarez but they didn't really sign anyone to replace him. I'm very surprised they didn't sign Toney or Osimhen, hell even Watkins. If they lose Haaland to a bad injury, they're in a tough spot with the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool challenging. Take away his goals in previous years and they lose quite a few games.

Then you consider the fact they have CL football, League Cup, FA Cup on top of Premier League. They're still favourites to win it, but they look as vulnerable as they have in years and this could be Arsenal/Liverpool's best chance in years.

Meanwhile Arsenal have made some good signings. They really didn't need to do much.

The way City plays they'll just put KDB at F9 and he'll score plenty.

Sure he is not going to score headers off crosses and the like, but look how many of Haaland's goals are back post tap ins, and KdB is plenty smart enough to make those runs.

 

[Super Freak]

What a cross from Trossard.

Odegaard with a free shot right in front of goal. Should have done better there.

 

[scobie]

The way City plays they'll just put KDB at F9 and he'll score plenty.

Sure he is not going to score headers off crosses and the like, but look how many of Haaland's goals are back post tap ins, and KdB is plenty smart enough to make those runs.

I do agree, but how often is it KDB who puts the ball on a plate for the tap in.

 

[Super Freak]

Jeez that was terrible from Dunk.

Up against Saka, he should have had that ball easily but he makes a meal of it and Arsenal score.

 

[Brocko]

I do agree, but how often is it KDB who puts the ball on a plate for the tap in.

This is true, but they now have Gundogan back too. You could even play Foden at F9 to keep KDB playing the balls.

Their quality is mental.

 

[Brocko]

I've just seen Arsenal's goal, I think that wouldn't have been a goal last season. They would have taken it back for the accidental handball from Saka in the assist.

Still think the handball rules are all sorts of stupid. You can't say it hitting his arm hasn't benefited him there.