FOOTBALL English Premier League 23/24 Discussion

[Wolfie]

Just to add to it, this is the list we have sent to the Premier league of everything negative about VAR.

• "Impact on goal celebrations and the spontaneous passion that makes football special
• Frustration and confusion inside stadiums due to lengthy VAR checks and poor communication
• A more hostile atmosphere with protests, booing of the Premier League anthem and chants against VAR
• Overreach of VAR’s original purpose to correct clear and obvious mistakes, now overanalysing subjective decisions and compromising the game’s fluidity and integrity
• Diminished accountability of on-field officials, due to the safety net of VAR, leading to an erosion of authority on the pitch
• Continued errors despite VAR, with supporters unable to accept human error after multiple views and replays, damaging confidence in officiating standards
• Disruption of the Premier League’s fast pace with lengthy VAR checks and more added time, causing matches to run excessively long
• Constant discourse about VAR decisions often overshadowing the match itself, and tarnishing the reputation of the league
• Erosion of trust and reputation, with VAR fuelling completely nonsensical allegations of corruption".

Its a well considered argument imo. Fans, especially at games are sick to death of it and i hope they lobby their clubs to get rid of it. Sadly though, we all know the clubs that wont even take into consideration what their supporters want.

 

[Brocko]

It will be very interesting how many/if any other clubs jump on board with Wolves.

 

[Wolfie]

It will be very interesting how many/if any other clubs jump on board with Wolves.

If they listen to the fans, they all will. Liverpool apparently wont, which doesnt surprise me. I doubt any of the so called big six will i dont reckon.

Wolves could easily have made it all about how we have been shafted since VAR came in but we havent. No team has had as many dodgy decisions over a 5 year period as we have. I was actually shocked when i saw the figures.

 

[Super Freak]

This was such a huge play from Amrabat. A goal here would have put Newcastle 2-1 up.

It doesn't show it, but Wan-Bissaka loses the ball like the fucking idiot he is and Newcastle have a 2-on-1. Isak probably takes one touch too many but it's still a huge save from Amrabat.

He's been pretty good the past two games and he's shown what a difference a holding midfielder who's playing well makes to this team. I wouldn't keep him, though. We would only have to pay £10 million to keep him but I think he's playing well the past two games because he's looking for a permanent move.

 

[Super Freak]

These guys along with Hojlund are going to develop a hell of a partnership in the near future.

 

[The True King]

If they listen to the fans, they all will. Liverpool apparently wont, which doesnt surprise me. I doubt any of the so called big six will i dont reckon.

Wolves could easily have made it all about how we have been shafted since VAR came in but we havent. No team has had as many dodgy decisions over a 5 year period as we have. I was actually shocked when i saw the figures.

Those numbers are wild! haha fair play Wolves.

Maybe I'm in the majority but I'd prefer they keep it. The issue has never been the technology but always the clowns using it. Plenty of other leagues where it's quite effective and efficient. I'm happy to cop a 30s wait to know that the right decision is being made (more often than not).

Mic up the refs so everyone in the ground can hear the convos and decision making. That will give us fans transparency and expose any incompetent officials. Also offside should be automated, completely eliminate any margin for human error in where lines are drawn.

Game has gone too far to go back now, way too many cameras and slow-mo replays. Just my opinion but I think if they scraped VAR it would then turn into even more intense scrutiny on refs and clubs would just push agendas about which refs are 'favouring' other teams etc. The obvious howlers will still happen and everyone will cry out for use of technology again.

 

[The True King]

These guys along with Hojlund are going to develop a hell of a partnership in the near future.

If they continue to develop over the next few seasons I can see you guys climbing up to 7th and really pushing for a Europa League spot

 

[Ondi]

Those numbers are wild! haha fair play Wolves.

Maybe I'm in the majority but I'd prefer they keep it. The issue has never been the technology but always the clowns using it. Plenty of other leagues where it's quite effective and efficient. I'm happy to cop a 30s wait to know that the right decision is being made (more often than not).

Mic up the refs so everyone in the ground can hear the convos and decision making. That will give us fans transparency and expose any incompetent officials. Also offside should be automated, completely eliminate any margin for human error in where lines are drawn.

Game has gone too far to go back now, way too many cameras and slow-mo replays. Just my opinion but I think if they scraped VAR it would then turn into even more intense scrutiny on refs and clubs would just push agendas about which refs are 'favouring' other teams etc. The obvious howlers will still happen and everyone will cry out for use of technology again.

I agree it's too far to go back but hopefully it brings to the table a proper debate that includes a lot of the things you mentioned to improve the experience.

 

[Wolfie]

Those numbers are wild! haha fair play Wolves.

Maybe I'm in the majority but I'd prefer they keep it. The issue has never been the technology but always the clowns using it. Plenty of other leagues where it's quite effective and efficient. I'm happy to cop a 30s wait to know that the right decision is being made (more often than not).

Mic up the refs so everyone in the ground can hear the convos and decision making. That will give us fans transparency and expose any incompetent officials. Also offside should be automated, completely eliminate any margin for human error in where lines are drawn.

Game has gone too far to go back now, way too many cameras and slow-mo replays. Just my opinion but I think if they scraped VAR it would then turn into even more intense scrutiny on refs and clubs would just push agendas about which refs are 'favouring' other teams etc. The obvious howlers will still happen and everyone will cry out for use of technology again.

I dont think we have actually done it to get it scrapped tbh, i think we know its not going to get enough votes. We have done it to get it changed and get a proper discussion going at the top level.

The interesting point is in 2018, figures from PGMOL were showing without VAR refs were on average getting 98% of decisions correct compared to the 96% ( apparently up from 82%, figures i think are a bit fudged to suit their argument ) so its not like VAR has improved much. All its done is make fans angrier when they get obvious decisions wrong compared to pre-VAR.

Referee myth-busting: How many decisions do officials get right?

Its a little bit like me advising Lionel Messi on how he can improve his performance and where he went wrong.

www.skysports.com

Certainly though, fans who go every week want it gone and if the media are to be believed, so do the players. The atmosphere at the game is very different to us watching it on TV from afar and it just ruins the game.

 

[The True King]

I dont think we have actually done it to get it scrapped tbh, i think we know its not going to get enough votes. We have done it to get it changed and get a proper discussion going at the top level.

The interesting point is in 2018, figures from PGMOL were showing without VAR refs were on average getting 98% of decisions correct compared to the 96% ( apparently up from 82%, figures i think are a bit fudged to suit their argument ) so its not like VAR has improved much. All its done is make fans angrier when they get obvious decisions wrong compared to pre-VAR.

Referee myth-busting: How many decisions do officials get right?

Its a little bit like me advising Lionel Messi on how he can improve his performance and where he went wrong.

www.skysports.com

Certainly though, fans who go every week want it gone and if the media are to be believed, so do the players. The atmosphere at the game is very different to us watching it on TV from afar and it just ruins the game.

I would be hesitant to use PGMOL data to back anything up. Those guys have a vested interest in VAR and they were very much against it from the start. When they saw the tide turn it favour of it they started doing whatever was needed to manipulate oversight/monitoring to ensure they have as little accountability as possible.

It's a win-win for them, if VAR stays in place they can demand more funding for the sheer volume of officials required in an average week of prem football (not to mention training, development etc). When decisions are wrong they just point to confusing communication, tech glitches (i.e 'we didn't have the right cameras') and protect their own by limiting our access to their decisions and justifications (note how they push ex-refs into the media to defend their calls).
Meanwhile if VAR goes, then they can simply fall back on the game being subjective and everyone not wanting technology when the calls are wrong - it will just breed further incompetence and frustration.

 

[Wolfie]

I would be hesitant to use PGMOL data to back anything up. Those guys have a vested interest in VAR and they were very much against it from the start. When they saw the tide turn it favour of it they started doing whatever was needed to manipulate oversight/monitoring to ensure they have as little accountability as possible.

It's a win-win for them, if VAR stays in place they can demand more funding for the sheer volume of officials required in an average week of prem football (not to mention training, development etc). When decisions are wrong they just point to confusing communication, tech glitches (i.e 'we didn't have the right cameras') and protect their own by limiting our access to their decisions and justifications (note how they push ex-refs into the media to defend their calls).
Meanwhile if VAR goes, then they can simply fall back on the game being subjective and everyone not wanting technology when the calls are wrong - it will just breed further incompetence and frustration.

Their data is a bit dodgy, but i think its all there is available. Doesn't bode well for them though when their own data shows they were more accurate before VAR. The refs are a problem though, especially when you have one of them admitting to the media he didn't pull one of his colleagues up for a mistake because he was having a tough game.

The best argument for scrapping it imo, and i cant remember where i saw it now, was when they said football isnt a game for the people running it, its a game for the fans, so let them decide. Let the ones who literally spend thousands and thousands of pounds a year going to games make the call. Its fans in the stadium who VAR hits hardest because you dont get the same emotion watching on TV. My Dad has been going to games since the 1950's and he's on the verge of giving it away because, like most fans, he isnt enjoying the matchday experience with VAR ( although he does say he probably wont give it away because being a football fan is practically voluntary enslavement )

Whatever way they go you will get bad decisions so nobody will win at the end of the day, there will always be controversy, but i've never really seen the kind of anger generated by VAR in the days before VAR.

I do think though this movement to scrap it is going to give the game 12 months now to get serious about fixing up the glaring errors with the system. If they dont, i can see this issue rearing its head again in 12 to 18 months.

 

[Brocko]

Wonder where he has landed a gig. My guess is Barca/Ajax? Bayern ruled out apparently. Juve need a new manager too I guess.

 

[Super Freak]

View attachment 27966

Wonder where he has landed a gig. My guess is Barca/Ajax? Bayern ruled out apparently. Juve need a new manager too I guess.

Has De Zerbi revealed the reason why he's left? He was one of the candidates on the list for the United job if ten Hag got the sack...

 

[pennywisealfie]

Just to add to it, this is the list we have sent to the Premier league of everything negative about VAR.

• "Impact on goal celebrations and the spontaneous passion that makes football special
• Frustration and confusion inside stadiums due to lengthy VAR checks and poor communication
• A more hostile atmosphere with protests, booing of the Premier League anthem and chants against VAR
• Overreach of VAR’s original purpose to correct clear and obvious mistakes, now overanalysing subjective decisions and compromising the game’s fluidity and integrity
• Diminished accountability of on-field officials, due to the safety net of VAR, leading to an erosion of authority on the pitch
• Continued errors despite VAR, with supporters unable to accept human error after multiple views and replays, damaging confidence in officiating standards
• Disruption of the Premier League’s fast pace with lengthy VAR checks and more added time, causing matches to run excessively long
• Constant discourse about VAR decisions often overshadowing the match itself, and tarnishing the reputation of the league
• Erosion of trust and reputation, with VAR fuelling completely nonsensical allegations of corruption".

Its a well considered argument imo. Fans, especially at games are sick to death of it and i hope they lobby their clubs to get rid of it. Sadly though, we all know the clubs that wont even take into consideration what their supporters want.

The best thing about VAR is it has somewhat stopped players diving so much. Before VAR, it was getting unbearable. I'm fine with them getting rid of VAR as long as they somehow use the technology to prevent dives. Whether that be suspensions or VAR looks at free kicks/penalties in back play and while play is ongoing they can let the ref know to send that player off. I know that's all extreme but it was shit watching dive attempts determine games.

 

[Brocko]

Has De Zerbi revealed the reason why he's left? He was one of the candidates on the list for the United job if ten Hag got the sack...

Don't believe so, but seems interesting that he had a release clause and a contract, and Brighton have seemingly let him leave for free. Bit strange

 

[Wolfie]

The best thing about VAR is it has somewhat stopped players diving so much. Before VAR, it was getting unbearable. I'm fine with them getting rid of VAR as long as they somehow use the technology to prevent dives. Whether that be suspensions or VAR looks at free kicks/penalties in back play and while play is ongoing they can let the ref know to send that player off. I know that's all extreme but it was shit watching dive attempts determine games.

I dont think the people actually playing or managing generally want it from some of the comments you hear. Now Klopp is leaving and they cant really pull him up about, he's saying he wants it scrapped, and he basically said its because the people running it dont know what they are doing.

I still dont think our aim in the first place though is to scrap it, its to get enough attention to get it changed to something that works. Most of my friends and family in England are all season ticket holders at clubs ranging from United and Liverpool all the way down to teams like Walsall and Shrewsbury town. I literally dont know a single person who attends games who wants it. They dont like whats its created for the matchday experience, and whether people like it or not, thats the backbone of football. If they drive away supporters from stadiums ( and its starting to happen at levels foreign supporters just dont see because its not televised) then the game will suffer.

 

[Wolfie]

View attachment 27966

Wonder where he has landed a gig. My guess is Barca/Ajax? Bayern ruled out apparently. Juve need a new manager too I guess.

Surprising me he's actually attracting such attention. Dont think he is a poor manager, but i think he's going to be out of his depth in a really big job. They have a pretty good squad, and last year they did really well, but this season they have been pretty average. They could finish as low as 13th if results go against them and i think for the talent they have its been an underachieving season.

 

[ningnangnong]

Any of you lovely folk not using your Optus Sports logon tonight and want to lend it to me for five bucks?

Normally I just find a stream, but after something more reliable tonight.