(Ex-) Cronulla players admitted drug cheats!

[subsbligh]

Agree with this 100% otherwise, we get stupid decisions like dopers getting three weeks suspension.
Clubs could just hire a fall guy, dope away to their hearts content, and if they get busted, just blame the patsy.

Dam right, the clubs are absolutely culpable for this whole business. Knowingly pushing the boundaries. They knew this was risky.

Sure, the players can't claim ignorance, turn a blind eye and take anything. We don't know, and ASADA could never prove, what was said by certain players and their advisors in the inner sanctum.

But to what extent are the players required to make independent enquiries?

A footy player, likely without much formal education or real world experience outside the closed environment of the club or his family, under peer group pressure from trusted leaders (like Paul Gallen, for example) telling you this is safe, legal and basically an "order" for team unity. It takes a huge amount of courage to "speak out" and be effectively a whistle blower on this activity.

If you're wrong, it probably costs you your mates, your contract, your career. Even if you're right, you're probably in the same boat anyway.

Couple that with the assurance from someone appearing to be a medical professional ("Doc told me... " - i.e. Dank) with a fiduciary obligation to me, who I assume I can trust at face value what they say. Also, the club no doubt was aware of the risk and probably glossed over that or hid it from the players to avoid that very situation (of the player getting suss about the supplement!).

Why would these trusted people put me, the player, in a position that could ruin my career?

Do you expect each player should have done interent research and consult with his pharmacist, lawyer and own doctor before they took anything?

No doubt they will now.

 

[subsbligh]

I am still absolutely bewildered that this is actually happening. I honestly cannot believe how so many people in organisations such as the NRL, RLIF, ASADA, and WADA have decided that they will let these dopers off.

I don't understand how this isn't a much bigger deal than it is.

Doping will never go away with this sort of bull**** happening. I honestly cannot believe it.

Well, to draw a fine distinction...

Really what Gallen and co have done is reluctantly accept an immensely generous legal settlement. I can guarantee that they would have been under a huge mental strain.

Risk of 2 years (end of your career) versus writing off a season already finished and having the whole thing done with.

There's DOPING... and there's doping.

Gallen is like Nicloas Cage in Con-Air. He knows that he was defending his hot wife from drunken dudes in the car park, but there's no evidence either way and there's two dead dudes outside a pub that nobody cares about, but that the Nashy's of world need to see blind justice be done for.

He takes the manslaughter charge even though it's immensely unfair but results in rivetting viewing at 30,000 feet for all.

It's the only sane option.

 

[broncos4life]

Well, to draw a fine distinction...

Really what Gallen and co have done is reluctantly accept an immensely generous legal settlement. I can guarantee that they would have been under a huge mental strain.

Risk of 2 years (end of your career) versus writing off a season already finished and having the whole thing done with.

There's DOPING... and there's doping.

Gallen is like Nicloas Cage in Con-Air. He knows that he was defending his hot wife from drunken dudes in the car park, but there's no evidence either way and there's two dead dudes outside a pub that nobody cares about, but that the Nashy's of world need to see blind justice be done for.

He takes the manslaughter charge even though it's immensely unfair but results in rivetting viewing at 30,000 feet for all.

It's the only sane option.

I love Con-Air but this is nothing like that.

End of the day if your innocent you never say your guilty. It's these guys reputation and if hey know they are innocent they would have given ASADA the finger and looked forward to the innocence being proven. Doping is doping and I seriously cannot understand how sports fans can be fine with it

 

[subsbligh]

I love Con-Air but this is nothing like that.

End of the day if your innocent you never say your guilty. It's these guys reputation and if hey know they are innocent they would have given ASADA the finger and looked forward to the innocence being proven. Doping is doping and I seriously cannot understand how sports fans can be fine with it

I preferred the Rock TBH, but Cage is Cage.

Man, it's a nice view of the world to think every person who is right always wins if they are tenacious enough. The way the settlement played out was mostly to do with strategy and little to do with the merit of the case.

I'd be comfortable in saying 95% of civil disputes and criminal investigations never even get to the first day of trial.

Having said all that. I would have told ASADA to get blown. It was such a weak play by ASADA - "we're going to vigourously investigate this blackest day in sport and you'll be getting a 2 years suspsnesion you bloody dope cheat cheaters society arrgh arrghh moral justic blah blah blah"....

By the way, without prejudice, would you be interested in taking a 3 week ban instead?

That's like you suing your builder for $500,000 defects in a house build gone wrong, and turning around before the first day of trial after 12 months of bullshit and saying, look, I'll take $5,000 to make this go away. What's your building going to think then? Great deal! Or **** him, he's obviously got nothing and worried about losing and doesn't want to pay my costs. See you in Court buddy.

They've run out of steam, the Sharks should have kept fighting, right or wrong.

But the deal was too bloody amazing.

I dare say that Gallen and co were less able to control whether the players not at the Sharks anymore would rat them out - if they accept the deal and "admit guilt", that weakens your own case doesn't it?

 

[broncos4life]

I preferred the Rock TBH, but Cage is Cage.

Man, it's a nice view of the world to think every person who is right always wins if they are tenacious enough. The way the settlement played out was mostly to do with strategy and little to do with the merit of the case.

I'd be comfortable in saying 95% of civil disputes and criminal investigations never even get to the first day of trial.

Having said all that. I would have told ASADA to get blown. It was such a weak play by ASADA - "we're going to vigourously investigate this blackest day in sport and you'll be getting a 2 years suspsnesion you bloody dope cheat cheaters society arrgh arrghh moral justic blah blah blah"....

By the way, without prejudice, would you be interested in taking a 3 week ban instead?

That's like you suing your builder for $500,000 defects in a house build gone wrong, and turning around before the first day of trial after 12 months of bullshit and saying, look, I'll take $5,000 to make this go away. What's your building going to think then? Great deal! Or **** him, he's obviously got nothing and worried about losing and doesn't want to pay my costs. See you in Court buddy.

They've run out of steam, the Sharks should have kept fighting, right or wrong.

But the deal was too bloody amazing.

I dare say that Gallen and co were less able to control whether the players not at the Sharks anymore would rat them out - if they accept the deal and "admit guilt", that weakens your own case doesn't it?

Difference is if the builder in this scenario gives him the $5,000 it would come with conditions like gag orders etc. meaning that his business and his own reputation isn't tarnished. It is not the same as with the sharks. By pleading guilty they are admitting to taking banned substances.

Especially guys like Gallen with possible media careers etc. afterwards if they are innocent they would have told ASADA where they could stick their offer.

Look at the players that have already retired, if they are innocent why not fight it? what do they have to lose except the stain on their reputation and legacy?

 

[Nashy]

A harsh sentence is the only sentence with doping.

"I didn't know" hasn't ever been an excuse. Until the other day.

 

[Porthoz]

Dam right, the clubs are absolutely culpable for this whole business. Knowingly pushing the boundaries. They knew this was risky.

Sure, the players can't claim ignorance, turn a blind eye and take anything. We don't know, and ASADA could never prove, what was said by certain players and their advisors in the inner sanctum.

But to what extent are the players required to make independent enquiries?

A footy player, likely without much formal education or real world experience outside the closed environment of the club or his family, under peer group pressure from trusted leaders (like Paul Gallen, for example) telling you this is safe, legal and basically an "order" for team unity. It takes a huge amount of courage to "speak out" and be effectively a whistle blower on this activity.

If you're wrong, it probably costs you your mates, your contract, your career. Even if you're right, you're probably in the same boat anyway.

Couple that with the assurance from someone appearing to be a medical professional ("Doc told me... " - i.e. Dank) with a fiduciary obligation to me, who I assume I can trust at face value what they say. Also, the club no doubt was aware of the risk and probably glossed over that or hid it from the players to avoid that very situation (of the player getting suss about the supplement!).

Why would these trusted people put me, the player, in a position that could ruin my career?

Do you expect each player should have done interent research and consult with his pharmacist, lawyer and own doctor before they took anything?

No doubt they will now.

I understand where you coming from re blowing the whistle, but you don't necessarily have to do that. You can just not take it!

Once again, the two most important items stressed to sports professionals:
- Source the medication/supplements yourself from a credible supplier. (This in itself should have raised suspicion)
- Do not take anyone else's word for it, as you are the accountable one for what goes in your body.

Then there was the fact that these supplements were in the form of an injection, which unless you are injured or sick, are one of the items to be alert to as well.

Note that I am not exlusively blaming the players, as this matter was extremely poorly handled by everyone, especially ASADA themselves, who now look like stupid morons!

 

[Huge]

Although this subject is tiresome a couple of points need to be raised. Firstly, the supplements were legal at the time. That is, the supplements the players were convinced they were taking, all legal and above board. No, not because they were not on the register but because they were and still are legal. They were the recovery supplements. The supposed illegal drugs, growth hormones whatever were never proven to have been administered to the players. In fact, as far as can be ascertained, ASADA became aware of them because Dank had ordered/ bought them from a compounding chemist. Dank had other clients at the time and Cronulla was just one client amongst many. It seems as though some decided Dank had bought these products for Cronulla when no evidence for that existed. Because it is possible that Cronulla players only took what was legal at the time the punishments had to be for the provable offences, such as they were.

Some or all or none of the above may be true ! What is certain though is that those statements are as certain/uncertain as the statements of the people demanding justice be served and calling people 'dopers' when they do not know anything with any certainty.

And because I wish clarity and not because this represents shouting I say again....The whole saga was handled badly, it reflects badly on the game, I'm not happy with Cronulla or the players and the punishments appear lenient and make all parties appear incompetent. ASADA /NRL / WADA all need to take a step back and reassess their processes so as to avoid a repeat.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

Yeh ok. All 17 players admitted guilt yet no illegal substances were taken. I dont think so.

I think if you're still holding on to the belief that maybe everything they took was legal, then you are very, very naive

 

[subsbligh]

Although this subject is tiresome a couple of points need to be raised. Firstly, the supplements were legal at the time. That is, the supplements the players were convinced they were taking, all legal and above board. No, not because they were not on the register but because they were and still are legal. They were the recovery supplements. The supposed illegal drugs, growth hormones whatever were never proven to have been administered to the players. In fact, as far as can be ascertained, ASADA became aware of them because Dank had ordered/ bought them from a compounding chemist. Dank had other clients at the time and Cronulla was just one client amongst many. It seems as though some decided Dank had bought these products for Cronulla when no evidence for that existed. Because it is possible that Cronulla players only took what was legal at the time the punishments had to be for the provable offences, such as they were.

Some or all or none of the above may be true ! What is certain though is that those statements are as certain/uncertain as the statements of the people demanding justice be served and calling people 'dopers' when they do not know anything with any certainty.

And because I wish clarity and not because this represents shouting I say again....The whole saga was handled badly, it reflects badly on the game, I'm not happy with Cronulla or the players and the punishments appear lenient and make all parties appear incompetent. ASADA /NRL / WADA all need to take a step back and reassess their processes so as to avoid a repeat.

Couldn't agree more.

And there's a moral spectrum to this. It's not -> pregnant/not pregnant.

Eastern Bloc women taking testosterone and steroids and basically metamorphising into men during the Olympics
.
.
.
.
.
Lance Armstrong
.
.
.
Ben Johnson
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Cronulla Sharks ASADA
.
.
Warnie taking a headache tablet his "Mum" said was ok
.
.
.
Calf's blood
Players taking caffeine tablets before games
.
.
Players openly drinking non-consumer amounts of Red-Bull on the interchange bench encouraging a culture of perfomance enhancing supplements
.
.
Jamie Lyon playing psychological games disrepsectfully questioning every decision a referee makes against his team.
.
.
.
.
Wrestling coaches

 

[subsbligh]

I understand where you coming from re blowing the whistle, but you don't necessarily have to do that. You can just not take it!

Once again, the two most important items stressed to sports professionals:
- Source the medication/supplements yourself from a credible supplier. (This in itself should have raised suspicion)
- Do not take anyone else's word for it, as you are the accountable one for what goes in your body.

Then there was the fact that these supplements were in the form of an injection, which unless you are injured or sick, are one of the items to be alert to as well.

Note that I am not exlusively blaming the players, as this matter was extremely poorly handled by everyone, especially ASADA themselves, who now look like stupid morons!

I am directing you, as your employer, to take this.

It will be a breach of your employment contract not to take this.

 

[subsbligh]

By the way, **** this whole saga, and **** the Sharks who are a stain on the National Rugby League.

What a mess.

Just trying to be thought provoking. It's hardly as black and white as made out or "I'm never watching Rugby League again in protest" as some peeps are trying to tout around here.

Glad it wasn't a Bronco.

 

[Porthoz]

I am directing you, as your employer, to take this.

It will be a breach of your employment contract not to take this.

You cannot be serious... :shocked:
Haha, I'd love for my employer to try that one!

Not only is that bullshit, it's illegal (and I am not talking about the supplements/medication themselves).

 

[subsbligh]

You cannot be serious... :shocked:
Haha, I'd love for my employer to try that one!

Not only is that bull****, it's illegal (and I am not talking about the supplements/medication themselves).

Disobeying a lawful direction or order would be absolute grounds for dismissal/termination of employment.

To my original point, the player's stand on the issue (I'm not taking that, because it's illegal) would be akin to whistleblowing.

Sharks: Take this.
Player: No it's illegal.
Sharks: No, it's fine Dank says it is and your team mates and Paul Gallen is taking it, are you calling them cheats?
Player: Yes.
Sharks: Well, we disagree. Take it.
Player: No.
Sharks: Fine, here's your notice.
Rothfield: "Sharks player quits after breach of code of conduct"

Player options - report to NRL/WADA/Police and rat on his mates/become the whistleblower or accept termination in silence and look elsewhere.

 

[Porthoz]

Disobeying a lawful direction or order would be absolute grounds for dismissal/termination of employment.

To my original point, the player's stand on the issue (I'm not taking that, because it's illegal) would be akin to whistleblowing.

Sharks: Take this.
Player: No it's illegal.
Sharks: No, it's fine Dank says it is and your team mates and Paul Gallen is taking it, are you calling them cheats?
Player: Yes.
Sharks: Well, we disagree. Take it.
Player: No.
Sharks: Fine, here's your notice.
Rothfield: "Sharks player quits after breach of code of conduct"

Player options - report to NRL/WADA/Police and rat on his mates/become the whistleblower or accept termination in silence and look elsewhere.

This went from ratting to not only unfair dismissal, as well as an employer trying to force an employee to take a substance (legal or not), which they cannot do. The most they can, is advise you on a diet to follow or suffer consequences such as not being selected for the team, but giving them notice? Again, I'd love to see anyone do that in a country such as Australia.

You can bet your life, they would not only be looking at criminal charges, but a massive lawsuit as well. This goes well beyond whistle blowing!

 

[subsbligh]

This went from ratting to not only unfair dismissal, as well as an employer trying to force an employee to take a substance (legal or not), which they cannot do. The most they can, is advise you on a diet to follow or suffer consequences such as not being selected for the team, but giving them notice? Again, I'd love to see anyone do that in a country such as Australia.

You can bet your life, they would not only be looking at criminal charges, but a massive lawsuit as well. This goes well beyond whistle blowing!

However you cut it, it would require the player to defy the club and directions (and probably assurances) given to him by coaching staff, go against the grain of team unity and his mates, all of which would take a lot more courage and potential self sacrifice than you can imagine.

 

[subsbligh]

And I can only just imagine the likes of Gallen, Wade Graham and Flanagan being very supportive of a dissenting young voice

:rolleyes:

"Just take your fucking supplements mate. You think we'd all cheat?"

 

[Huge]

I just wish my fellow posters would come out and admit two things. Firstly, they are not sure of any of the facts in the case other than that which is self evident, that being the players 'admitting' to some unspecified offence in preference to being banned from their trade for two years ( and still being labelled a drug cheat ,only without evidence !)

Secondly, that they are not bloody perfect themselves.

Time ladies and gents, time. Last drinks, go home ,nothing to see here.....