Folau has no regrets - would say it all again

[Midean]

I'm an Atheist, Midean...... I am one of those groups he attacked. I don't need to be reminded who he attacked, I frankly don't give a shit. I just give a shit that he attacked.

I'm going to Hell because I don't share his faith is the implication. And I'm supposed to feel sorry for him? It was a hostile, unprovoked bellow from the soapbox. He wanted attention and he got it. All of it.

I am an Atheist as well, and fall into the group going to hell also. I should apologize for coming at you the way i did in the original post, i re-read it, and it was a bit harsh on my part.
I am frustrated with the fact that Israel lost his job over his beliefs (no matter how daft they might be).
Does he deserve to lose his job for spouting nonsense on social media?
Most of us reading it don't believe his bullshit, and when i first saw his tweets i put it down to him being a religious nutjob and gave it no credibility whatsoever.
I never once watched Izzy play football based on anything he said off the field.
Tell me this, was what Israel did any worse than what Russel Packer did, or Matt Lodge, or Dylan Walker? All guys still playing football as we speak?

Are we to believe that a man can lose his career based on a couple of stupid tweets, based on a religious law that millions of people across our country follow?
Yet we allow perpetrators of domestic violence and thuggery to play on?
Batshit crazy if you ask me.

 

[Sirlee oldman]

There is no denying Israel is not the sharpest tool in the shed.
I think he is easily influenced and footballers in general tend to not be the smartest blokes around ( a generalization, i know).
I also think he is a fool for what he posts, and is committing social suicide in doing so, especially in todays climate.
I just cant help but be seriously concerned that a man has lost his career, his ability to provide for his family, etc over his beliefs.
I would be more inclined to shut down organized religion altogether before destroying one mans life for believing in it.

Sorry I’m struggling to follow your argument. Are you advocating for Rugby Australia to be given the power to destroy all organised religion? I thought the issue was about an employee who wilfully harms his employers business. He can still follow his religion and he can work for anyone dumb enough to employ him so what’s the problem.

 

[I bleed Maroon]

I am an Atheist as well, and fall into the group going to hell also. I should apologize for coming at you the way i did in the original post, i re-read it, and it was a bit harsh on my part.
I am frustrated with the fact that Israel lost his job over his beliefs (no matter how daft they might be).
Does he deserve to lose his job for spouting nonsense on social media?
Most of us reading it don't believe his bullshit, and when i first saw his tweets i put it down to him being a religious nutjob and gave it no credibility whatsoever.
I never once watched Izzy play football based on anything he said off the field.
Tell me this, was what Israel did any worse than what Russel Packer did, or Matt Lodge, or Dylan Walker? All guys still playing football as we speak?

Are we to believe that a man can lose his career based on a couple of stupid tweets, based on a religious law that millions of people across our country follow?
Yet we allow perpetrators of domestic violence and thuggery to play on?
Batshit crazy if you ask me.

Mate, if people can get fired for one or two brain dead tweets then how the **** is Trump President?

 

[Dash]

Mate, if people can get fired for one or two brain dead tweets then how the **** is Trump President?

Because USA

 

[Midean]

So the ARU is just supposed to cop the damage to their brand - including loss of revenue - so long as Folau gets his millions?



So let me get this right. Gay people have a choice whether or not to be gay, but Folau has no choice but to be a bigot?

You mean the same ARU that lets domestic violence offenders continue to play on?
Also, don't get personal, i never said Gay people have a choice.
And Folau 100% has a choice to be a bigot, and he chose to be, and is now suffering the consequences of it.
But why does he lose his job over it? And shouldn't all followers of religion that teach this nonsense also lose their jobs?
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Yeah but it's only being taught to people who want to be there. No is there against their will.

Tell that to the Sunday ministries on TV every week, or the assholes that turn up on my door Saturday mornings when i try to sleep in.
Religion relies on spreading its beliefs to people who don't believe.
They have Missionaries for that very reason.

 

[Midean]

Sorry I’m struggling to follow your argument. Are you advocating for Rugby Australia to be given the power to destroy all organised religion? I thought the issue was about an employee who wilfully harms his employers business. He can still follow his religion and he can work for anyone dumb enough to employ him so what’s the problem.

I am saying there is no easy solution to this situation without stepping on some freedoms, one way or the other.
You just have to be careful that the discrimination doesn't go both ways.
Once could easily say Israel is being discriminated against unfairly due to his religious affiliation.
Its Pandoras box and Israel has flung it wide open with a couple of tweets.

 

[I bleed Maroon]

I am saying there is no easy solution to this situation without stepping on some freedoms, one way or the other.
You just have to be careful that the discrimination doesn't go both ways.
Once could easily say Israel is being discriminated against unfairly due to his religious affiliation.
Its Pandoras box and Israel has flung it wide open with a couple of tweets.

Yeah and don't you suspect that might be what he was going for to begin with?

 

[Midean]

Yeah and don't you suspect that might be what he was going for to begin with?

It quiet possibly is.
But at what point does Israel become the victim of discrimination based on his religious beliefs?
Where is the line crossed between freedom of speech, and hate speech in regards to Israels tweets?
I guess i see it as punishing the soldier following orders for the crime, and not the general. Israel fucked up, but he was following the teachings of his faith. Does that not make his faith the instigator?
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I got a question for all of you.

Is Israels tweets worse than Matt Lodges crime?
Is it worse than Russel Packers crime?

Does he deserve to lose his job more than these two examples?

 

[I bleed Maroon]

It quiet possibly is.
But at what point does Israel become the victim of discrimination based on his religious beliefs?
Where is the line crossed between freedom of speech, and hate speech in regards to Israels tweets?
I guess i see it as punishing the soldier following orders for the crime, and not the general. Israel fucked up, but he was following the teachings of his faith. Does that not make his faith the instigator?

See you and I are at a crossroads on that one because I can't see any reason, especially in this instance why both soldier and general can't be rebuked. "Don't shoot the messenger" doesn't work here, because nobody prompted Israel to say or do anything. He made that choice entirely on his own.

I'm pretty sure if any religious organization actively rallied their flock to attack those they deem heretical or dirty on social media, it would be a huge scandal.

 

[Midean]

See you and I are at a crossroads on that one because I can't see any reason, especially in this instance why both soldier and general can't be rebuked. "Don't shoot the messenger" doesn't work here, because nobody prompted Israel to say or do anything. He made that choice entirely on his own.

I'm pretty sure if any religious organization actively rallied their flock to attack those they deem heretical or dirty on social media, it would be a huge scandal.

Christianity and Islam both enforce that same sex relationships are a sin.
It is taught in both of their Holiest books the Bible and the Quran.
That being said, neither religion actively rallies their flock to attack those in same sex relationships, but nonetheless condemns both as sins that will damn you for eternity.

Folau never attacked those groups, he even came out and said that the things he tweeted came from a place of love, and wanting to see all people saved in the eyes of god.
He also quoted the bible.
These were not things Folau made up and took to social media, he sourced them from religious texts and quoted them.
Does that not make the Bible the culprit here? Folau is just a fool who follows the teachings of even greater fools, yet he is the one paying the price.

(After a bit of research, it turns our Islam does in fact encourage attacks on same sex marriage in certain parts of the world, Lebanon for example). The IRLC still lets Lebanon compete in the world cup right?
This is an entire country that condemns homosexuality, and in fact can see you imprisoned for it.
There is a massive double standard at play here it seems.
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I got a question for all of you.

Is Israels tweets worse than Matt Lodges crime?
Is it worse than Russel Packers crime?

Does he deserve to lose his job more than these two examples?

Still waiting for a single persons opinion on this.
really interested to see peoples perspective here.

 

[Sirlee oldman]

I am saying there is no easy solution to this situation without stepping on some freedoms, one way or the other.
You just have to be careful that the discrimination doesn't go both ways.
Once could easily say Israel is being discriminated against unfairly due to his religious affiliation.
Its Pandoras box and Israel has flung it wide open with a couple of tweets.

No. It’s a stock standard industrial dispute. The rest is just fluff. Don’t attack the customer base or get another job. Simple.

 

[I bleed Maroon]

Still waiting for a single persons opinion on this.
really interested to see peoples perspective here.

We can debate the moral comparison until the cows come home, but the difference I would say is this: Lodge and Packer didn't come out and double down like Israel has done. Instead of being apologetic for being a preachy asshole if nothing else, he gets what he wants, which is an atmosphere that allows a persecution complex to flourish (does that sound familiar to you by any chance?), and then he runs with it and wears it as a cloak and shield.

I mean I don't understand what it is about this man that I'm supposed to respect.

 

[Midean]

We can debate the moral comparison until the cows come home, but the difference I would say is this: Lodge and Packer didn't come out and double down like Israel has done. Instead of being apologetic for being a preachy asshole if nothing else, he gets what he wants, which is an atmosphere that allows a persecution complex to flourish (does that sound familiar to you by any chance?), and then he runs with it and wears it as a cloak and shield.

I mean I don't understand what it is about this man that I'm supposed to respect.

Not saying he should be respected, quiet the opposite.
And you are telling me, that his case is worse because it fosters an atmosphere that allows a persecution complex?
That's worse than kidnapping and threatening the life of innocent people minding their own business?
Its worse than stomping another persons head in the gutter because of too much booze and a short temper?
LOL ok mate, whatever you say.
There is no need to be narky at me either mate, i don't have a "persecution complex" i have a strong interest in this whole saga since it began, because of the very conversations we are having.
It provokes thoughtful conversation on both sides of the fence until one side starts to get personal, at which point the conversation ends.
Peace.
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No. It’s a stock standard industrial dispute. The rest is just fluff. Don’t attack the customer base or get another job. Simple.

So don't quote the bible, or you will lose your job. got it.
Sounds rather discriminatory to me.
And it is anything but simple as this thread, the news, and the huge lawsuits can attest to.

 

[tommy]

Not saying he should be respected, quiet the opposite.
And you are telling me, that his case is worse because it fosters an atmosphere that allows a persecution complex?
That's worse than kidnapping and threatening the life of innocent people minding their own business?
Its worse than stomping another persons head in the gutter because of too much booze and a short temper?
LOL ok mate, whatever you say.
There is no need to be narky at me either mate, i don't have a "persecution complex" i have a strong interest in this whole saga since it began, because of the very conversations we are having.
It provokes thoughtful conversation on both sides of the fence until one side starts to get personal, at which point the conversation ends.
Peace.

He is threatening them to burn for an eternity. So yeah it is worse than what Lodge and Packer did. Have you got any young relatives? What would you do if some weirdo scared them with the promise of eternal suffering?

 

[Sirlee oldman]

Not saying he should be respected, quiet the opposite.
And you are telling me, that his case is worse because it fosters an atmosphere that allows a persecution complex?
That's worse than kidnapping and threatening the life of innocent people minding their own business?
Its worse than stomping another persons head in the gutter because of too much booze and a short temper?
LOL ok mate, whatever you say.
There is no need to be narky at me either mate, i don't have a "persecution complex" i have a strong interest in this whole saga since it began, because of the very conversations we are having.
It provokes thoughtful conversation on both sides of the fence until one side starts to get personal, at which point the conversation ends.
Peace.
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So don't quote the bible, or you will lose your job. got it.
Sounds rather discriminatory to me.
And it is anything but simple as this thread, the news, and the huge lawsuits can attest to.

Or you could just quote the nice bits that aren’t likely to trigger a kid to commit suicide or alienate your customers. I doubt your employer would object to that.

 

[Midean]

He is threatening them to burn for an eternity. So yeah it is worse than what Lodge and Packer did. Have you got any young relatives? What would you do if some weirdo scared them with the promise of eternal suffering?

Cmon mate, that's ludicrous.
You are trying to tell me that a few words of nonsense are worse than a physical assault?
I can tell you this, if some weirdo spouted some nonsense at my young relatives, i would be pissed off, if however, he kicked the shit out of them, i would call the police and have him arrested as the latter is far far worse than a verbal spray.

 

[Culhwch]

You mean the same ARU that lets domestic violence offenders continue to play on?

I don't know much about the ARU's response to domestic violence offenders, to be honest. Can you provide some examples of incidents and punishments? I'm not stirring, by the way, I'm genuinely curious.

Also, don't get personal, i never said Gay people have a choice.

I didn't intend to get personal, but you did mention and provide a link to a study supporting the idea that sexual preference is not genetic, so you can surely understand how that might be interpreted.

And Folau 100% has a choice to be a bigot, and he chose to be, and is now suffering the consequences of it.

What's the argument here? He chose to be a bigot. The consequence was losing his job. Actions have consequences.

But why does he lose his job over it? And shouldn't all followers of religion that teach this nonsense also lose their jobs?

Yes, absolutely, if their job involves agreeing to a code of conduct and/or social media policy that they disregard, or if their job gives them a platform which they then use to spout bigoted, small-minded horseshit, which then reflects badly upon their employer.

I got a question for all of you.

Is Israels tweets worse than Matt Lodges crime?
Is it worse than Russel Packers crime?

Does he deserve to lose his job more than these two examples?

Again, I'll be completely honest and admit I don't know a lot about Russell Packer, but I can compare Folau to Matt Lodge. As far as I'm concerned these things are apples and oranges. Both heinous in their individual ways, but not really comparable. Matt Lodge committed a crime for which he was arrested, tried, and punished. From all accounts he has since turned his life around, given up alcohol, payed damages as ordered, and otherwise toed every line asked of him. He's also demonstrated that he is one of our team's more respected leaders, and has led projects to give back to the community. There is no doubt he was on a short leash, and knew that any indiscretions would cost him his job. There would be consequences. Like there was for Ben Barba.

Israel Folau, meanwhile, is a demonstrated bigot, who is unapologetic about being a bigot, and has made no efforts of any kind that indicate he will ever stop being a bigot. My understanding is that he had previously been warned about the very thing he went on to do (correct me if I'm wrong, please). So my answer would be yes, he deserved to lose his job more. Specifically, and importantly, the job of being a highly paid professional sportsperson. If he wants to toil away in anonymity as a plumber or truck driver or trolley boy, he can post whatever bigoted bullshit he wants to his Instagram. Provided, of course, it doesn't contravene any agreement he has with that employer.

Edit: Oh, and also, Lodge did lose his job. The Tigers sacked him, and he had to be re-registered before he could play for us.

 

[tommy]

Cmon mate, that's ludicrous.
You are trying to tell me that a few words of nonsense are worse than a physical assault?
I can tell you this, if some weirdo spouted some nonsense at my young relatives, i would be pissed off, if however, he kicked the shit out of them, i would call the police and have him arrested as the latter is far far worse than a verbal spray.

It's only nonsense because you think it is. To an impressionable young mind it is far more than that.