Gold Coast Titans Discussion

I’m a huge fan of Holbrook, it must be nice to have a good coach.
Next year will be the real test. He and the club will have an expectation to improve and actually win more games than they lose.
One thing to admire about the Broncos is the way they have stuck together so far.
Most other clubs would have folded by now and sacked the coach and players would be leaking to the press how it's the coaches fault but so far all we have had is speculation from journos with no substance and no quotes.
 
The thing I like about Holbrook is that he is instilling a structure in that side and as has been mentioned, the deadwood is being cut but being replaced by targeted signings. Yes they are paying a premium to bring guys in but they (from the outside looking in) have a plan.

Compare that to the Broncos - blow the place up, get rid of guys on a whim (sort of) but do it in a ridiculously one-sided, convoluted loan deal (but trumpet it as a release) and then get them back busted and pay for the rehab. Offer ridiculously inflated deals to guys who are unproven and / or busted AND give them player options.

And because over-inflated contracts with the player options based on potential work so well (sarcasm), throw out the same thing to an unproven rookie coach with potential.

The other thing is that the coach (seemingly like the board) are just totally reactive in everything they do. Like, they come up with an idea (and it might be good in theory, ala chase Bellamy, try and move on Bennett, try and wrap up young talent - Milford, Joffa, Oates) but not think it through and think of a plan B or C if it goes awry.

Take the coach, he is complaining, distancing and clueless about the massive culture issue in the side. He is a massive issue with the side because he is part of a now perpetual problem. Regardless of ideas, he can't fix the problem because he is a big part of it (and fairly or unfairly, the face of it). So what does he do? He throws ideas out there, changes players/positions on a whim and when it doesn't set the world on fire, change it again.

No wonder the players are confused and frustrated. They don't know what their role is, they don't know what they are supposed to do. They don't know what position they will be in week to week, even half to half.

So what happens? They are all clueless and looking to the coach for support. What is he doing? Throwing out excuses, deflecting blame, claiming responsibility but not actually taking it. So the players do the same. They aren't a smart bunch, they need leadership and the coach, senior players and admin are not taking it or showing it.

Even worse, no one takes accountability and the coach doesn't enforce standards...because he doesn't know what they are or should be...and he is the one who needs to set them! He is Patty Carrigan without the leeway needed to become what he looks like he could have been. He is the rookie captain who really isn't ready to do the massive job needing to be done, regardless of potential. Like his senior, massive contracted players, he is on too much, in a position he isn't yet ready for, confused, frustrated and also doesn't have the background performance to fall back on to get out of it.

He, like the club, had a plan A and now that it has gone, due to injury, luck, stupidity, bad decisions, COVID-19 and pure incompetence, he has no idea whatsoever what to do and he is just hoping for the best and hoping, like most fans, that it will just turn around on its own when the injured players return because...we are the Broncos and so it just happens.

This is why I am concerned nothing will improve at the Broncos until the board and coach are gone and the right players are bought in...like the Titans look like they are actually trying to do.
 
The thing in Holbrooks favour is that things couldn't get any worse when he came in and expectations on the Titans are so low with little media coverage to add pressure. Their fan base is poor in numbers and are probably the most insignificant club out of the 16 to neutral fans/followers of the game.

Casual observers of the game could come in and see that Cartwright/S Boyd/Peachey/Peats/Wallace/James/Taylor/Latu were well overpaid compared to what they offer on the field so punting/trading/releasing any of them was all upside and low hanging fruit for Holbrook to get some runs on the board.

The pickup of Corey Thompson was handy but hardly the signing to challenge top 4 let alone top 8 and even the signing of Ese'Ese was reported as being better than it really was as he has struggled at Newcastle where others have flourished and i doubt they tried hard to keep him or he hit the radar of many other clubs.

Sure the signing of Fifita and Tino are steps in the right direction but i think the true measure of Holbrook will come when he has to make tougher choices than releasing the duds listed above and has to start making roster choices based on experience vs. youth to get the mix right.

If he can turn this soulless club into a genuine premiership force over the next 5 years cementing themselves into the top 8 consistently i will tip my hat to him.
 
The one good thing that would come about from the Gold Coast going well next year is that it would confirm that just about anything is possible.

If a basket case and the epitome of shit clubs can turn things around and rise, then it gives us all hope that the Broncos can find a way out of this hole and finally win another premiership in our lifetimes.
 
The thing in Holbrooks favour is that things couldn't get any worse when he came in and expectations on the Titans are so low with little media coverage to add pressure. Their fan base is poor in numbers and are probably the most insignificant club out of the 16 to neutral fans/followers of the game.

Casual observers of the game could come in and see that Cartwright/S Boyd/Peachey/Peats/Wallace/James/Taylor/Latu were well overpaid compared to what they offer on the field so punting/trading/releasing any of them was all upside and low hanging fruit for Holbrook to get some runs on the board.

The pickup of Corey Thompson was handy but hardly the signing to challenge top 4 let alone top 8 and even the signing of Ese'Ese was reported as being better than it really was as he has struggled at Newcastle where others have flourished and i doubt they tried hard to keep him or he hit the radar of many other clubs.

Sure the signing of Fifita and Tino are steps in the right direction but i think the true measure of Holbrook will come when he has to make tougher choices than releasing the duds listed above and has to start making roster choices based on experience vs. youth to get the mix right.

If he can turn this soulless club into a genuine premiership force over the next 5 years cementing themselves into the top 8 consistently i will tip my hat to him.
I tend to agree with most of your post but I'm a little more gentle in my player assessment. You see I don't think Taylor's the bust others seem to believe. I make a much greater allowance for Taylor's task and his age/experience. I don't blame him for taking the cash offered at the time and forgive him for not truly understanding the baggage that comes with such a weighty contract.

Blokes his age simply can not know what it's really going to be like. The old saying about old heads and young shoulders is applicable here. I honestly believe if he had the choice again, knowing what he now knows he would have either reconsidered or with the new knowledge taken on the challenge but forewarned and thus handled it so so much better.

The fact that he's on the field now and seeming to enjoy the challenge more combined with the support of the new coach definitely is a plus for the future. I think his mental health breakdown and apparent ( ongoing?) recovery will build resilience he didn't have previously. In other words, the issue he had to have to build a better model.
 
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I tend to agree with most of your post but I'm a little more gentle in my player assessment. You see I don't think Taylor's the bust others seem to believe. I make a much greater allowance for Taylor's task and his age/experience. I don't blame him for taking the cash offered at the time and forgive him for not truly understanding the baggage that comes with such a weighty contract.

Blokes his age simply can not know what it's really going to be like. The old saying about old heads and young shoulders is applicable here. I honestly believe if he had the choice again, knowing what he now knows he would have either reconsidered or with the new knowledge taken on the challenge but forewarned and thus handled it so so much better.

The fact that he's on the field now and seeming to enjoy the challenge more combined with the support of the new coach definitely is a plus for the future. I think his mental health breakdown and apparent ( ongoing?) recovery will build resilience he didn't have previously. In other words, the issue he had to have to build a better model.
Point taken, but i just find it hard to justify Taylor living up to his reported salary of ~$1M per season when talking true value for money.

Maybe he will start to improve and live up to the expectation of that price tag but then Holbrook is in a no lose situation. He either sees Taylor get better in which case people can praise his coaching for improving him. Taylor stays the same level and Holbrook puts his hands up and says "i never signed him", or Holbrook replaces him for someone cheaper who probably doesn't go any worse and Holbrook can claim he is getting better value for money.
 
Point taken, but i just find it hard to justify Taylor living up to his reported salary of ~$1M per season when talking true value for money.

Maybe he will start to improve and live up to the expectation of that price tag but then Holbrook is in a no lose situation. He either sees Taylor get better in which case people can praise his coaching for improving him. Taylor stays the same level and Holbrook puts his hands up and says "i never signed him", or Holbrook replaces him for someone cheaper who probably doesn't go any worse and Holbrook can claim he is getting better value for money.
Don't misunderstand me, I totally agree on the vfm angle, he's not quite Bird-like vfm but from a strictly financial view, yes it hasn't materialized. If Taylor continues on what appears to be an upward trajectory then I believe he will achieve higher rep honours. Yes, origin unless a greater prospect looms in the meantime and makes halfback his own. I don't know what state Taylor's mental health is, I can only go by on field body language but the fact he's out there and has Holbrook mentoring him all seems positive to my eyes. I am an optimist by nature!
 
Don't misunderstand me, I totally agree on the vfm angle, he's not quite Bird-like vfm but from a strictly financial view, yes it hasn't materialized. If Taylor continues on what appears to be an upward trajectory then I believe he will achieve higher rep honours. Yes, origin unless a greater prospect looms in the meantime and makes halfback his own. I don't know what state Taylor's mental health is, I can only go by on field body language but the fact he's out there and has Holbrook mentoring him all seems positive to my eyes. I am an optimist by nature!
I might have an unfair bias regarding DCE but I actually tend to think he is very overrated and the fact that no-one is challenging for his QLD jersey really irks me (captain too! wtf). Don't think there are many others with me but I am still holding out hope Taylor can force his way into that maroons jumper. I think maybe the main thing holding him back at this point is he doesn't do well with the tough stuff. If he can become an absolute competitor he would take it easily in my opinion.
 
I might have an unfair bias regarding DCE but I actually tend to think he is very overrated and the fact that no-one is challenging for his QLD jersey really irks me (captain too! wtf). Don't think there are many others with me but I am still holding out hope Taylor can force his way into that maroons jumper. I think maybe the main thing holding him back at this point is he doesn't do well with the tough stuff. If he can become an absolute competitor he would take it easily in my opinion.
I expect Taylor will become a force. He will play origin and take ownership. He will become first picked. Our leader on field. The Broncos couldn't know at the time but there's a bit of Alfie and Locky in him. He may even be our best ever halback. He has all the skills and there's nothing he can't do as far as halfbacks go. The Titans are lucky they've got him and I wish we still had him. He will make Milford look second class.
 
Even in a struggling bottom 3 side surrounded by inexperience he still racks up the try assists. I don't know if I've seen the leadership qualities yet but there's no doubt he's developing and improving under Holbrook. It's been a tough learning curve over the last few years for Taylor but there are signs he's coming out the other side a quality half.

It will be interesting to see how contract re-negotiations go and if he's prepared to repay the Titans faith by accepting a lesser offer than the deal he's currently on. I think another club will try lure him away with a bigger offer but it's probably in his best interests to stay put and prove he's learnt his lesson about chasing money.
 
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I might have an unfair bias regarding DCE but I actually tend to think he is very overrated and the fact that no-one is challenging for his QLD jersey really irks me (captain too! wtf). Don't think there are many others with me but I am still holding out hope Taylor can force his way into that maroons jumper. I think maybe the main thing holding him back at this point is he doesn't do well with the tough stuff. If he can become an absolute competitor he would take it easily in my opinion.
You hit the nail on the head....
You have a bias against DCE. Taylor shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence.
One of Kevvies biggest selection errors was not picking him 2 years ago until it was too late
 
I might have an unfair bias regarding DCE but I actually tend to think he is very overrated and the fact that no-one is challenging for his QLD jersey really irks me (captain too! wtf). Don't think there are many others with me but I am still holding out hope Taylor can force his way into that maroons jumper. I think maybe the main thing holding him back at this point is he doesn't do well with the tough stuff. If he can become an absolute competitor he would take it easily in my opinion.

DCE hasn't been great for QLD, but come on, he's still way, waaay better than Taylor.
 
DCE hasn't been great for QLD, but come on, he's still way, waaay better than Taylor.
A lot older and more experienced but the difference is not as great as you claim.
 
You hit the nail on the head....
You have a bias against DCE. Taylor shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence.
One of Kevvies biggest selection errors was not picking him 2 years ago until it was too late

Could I interest you in sharing your thoughts as to why at least at club level DCE is good enough to be referred to as "shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence" as Taylor. In a side that is worse offensively Ash beats him in try assists, forced dropouts and 40/20s. DCE's main upside has been his tries as he has a strong support playing game (Tries plus try assists still doesn't reach Ash) and has a couple more line breaks and line break assists. It is barely as far of a gap as you say and personally I would prefer Ash's involvements. Defensively is probably where the issue lies and he has definitely been improving that this year with a fair bit of it being due to Ash having poorer defensive second rowers outside him this year due to injury. I'm not saying he is better as yet but god you can't say DCE is tiers above either.
 
Could I interest you in sharing your thoughts as to why at least at club level DCE is good enough to be referred to as "shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence" as Taylor. In a side that is worse offensively Ash beats him in try assists, forced dropouts and 40/20s. DCE's main upside has been his tries as he has a strong support playing game (Tries plus try assists still doesn't reach Ash) and has a couple more line breaks and line break assists. It is barely as far of a gap as you say and personally I would prefer Ash's involvements. Defensively is probably where the issue lies and he has definitely been improving that this year with a fair bit of it being due to Ash having poorer defensive second rowers outside him this year due to injury. I'm not saying he is better as yet but god you can't say DCE is tiers above either.

You won't find it in stats. DCE makes those around him better. Defensively, Taylor is not up to it at SoO level and barely adequate at NRL level.

DCE knows how to pick apart a defence, play through a defence, target someone in a defensive line and has a better running game. Taylor relies heavily on kicks and going around a defence.

Are you saying if you had a choice to swap them you would stick with Ash?
 
You won't find it in stats. DCE makes those around him better. Defensively, Taylor is not up to it at SoO level and barely adequate at NRL level.

DCE knows how to pick apart a defence, play through a defence, target someone in a defensive line and has a better running game. Taylor relies heavily on kicks and going around a defence.

Are you saying if you had a choice to swap them you would stick with Ash?

I've been really disappointed with Taylor's game. It seems like Holbrook has simplified it to the point where all he essentially has to do is kick low for Kelly, kick high for the Don or play short to whoever he's saddled up with on an edge. Whatever license he has to be creative has been taken up by Peachey who isn't really creating anything, he's just playing a maverick like role.

Last week he was thoroughly out-punted by Cleary and there was nothing in the way of attack. Everybody knows Naden is a horrible defender and Kelly is one of the Gold Coast's most potent options, yet Taylor who is saddled right alongside him rarely opened the field up for him.

With that said, would Chez have made that much of a difference? He doesn't seem like the type of player who can change a culture of the club, in fact he seemed pretty poisonous at Manly before Des came in with his Big Brother style approach to coaching. That and the fact that Manly were allowed to exploit the salary cap for 5 years and cop a slap on the wrist - never forget.
 
You won't find it in stats. DCE makes those around him better. Defensively, Taylor is not up to it at SoO level and barely adequate at NRL level.

DCE knows how to pick apart a defence, play through a defence, target someone in a defensive line and has a better running game. Taylor relies heavily on kicks and going around a defence.

Are you saying if you had a choice to swap them you would stick with Ash?

I feel as though your middle paragraph there comes with experience which DCE should have plenty more of by now. There is definitely still room for improvement in that area in Ash's game. In terms of would I stick with Ash... I personally believe he can overtake DCE as a player and given he will probably be on a heavily reduced contract next time, on value for money no question. In terms of playing through a defence etc. I am assuming you mean line breaks and line break assists which in Taylors defence he has had fringe second rowers outside him and doesn't have someone like Turbo who is a weapon at breaking the line who he can throw an inside ball to and what not. Against the sharks he put a debutant secondrower through the line for a 40m break twice so he is hardly useless there. In terms of relying on kicks and going around... if that gets double the try assists for his team I don't see the problem (are kicks and cut out passes no longer a skill?). If DCE was so good at picking apart a defence how come his total try contributions isn't higher. I honestly fail to see why Ash cops so much for his salary when in attack he is just a potent as the highest paid player in the game and QLD and Aus's halfback at that. Just my opinion. To answer your question, at the moment I think both are overpaid and DCE might get the nod mainly on experience etc. In 2022 when Ash's contract is re-negotiatied him hands down.

On the defensive front, I honestly believe some of this can come down to the team around you. For example Mitch Moses has similar stats but because of the team around him this gets hidden. Bit hard to do that when the Titans are up there with the worst defensive side in the comp.
 

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