Culhwch
NRL Captain
- Mar 28, 2008
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Not defending him in any way, but just curious as to who he cut that you consider beloved? I'd say every player that was let go under his tenure were polarising at best....
NEWS He's just a winner: Turpin
- Thread starter Foordy
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Not defending him in any way, but just curious as to who he cut that you consider beloved? I'd say every player that was let go under his tenure were polarising at best....
theshed
Just a Game
- Aug 28, 2010
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Beloved by players. I mostly meant Macca, and Gillo. Though Gillo’s medical retirement being highly encouraged to make cap space for young guys is a conspiracy theory I came up with.
- Jul 28, 2016
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I'd say it was more the manner in which they were moved on.
Like @theshed mentioned they were guys respected in the playing group or had been at the club for awhile that were cast aside for young dudes that had done nothing.
Kodi basically being told he would be a bench player, instead of just telling him he was bench for now but things can change
Kahu being told he was depth and then having his move done so quickly that he didn't even say goodbye to the group.
Macca being told he was depth only and no chance of getting the starting position.
Sua being told he was depth and then trying to shoehorn him into the middle rotation after a broken ankle
The coach being unable to control Roberts and basically having to move him on.
Them trying to move Glenn on only to realise they needed a captain
Everything was pointing at the club being run as a business with zero loyalty. It's any wonder players are now treating any dealings with the club like a business knowing the club will just move them on when they're no longer needed.
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abashii
NRL Player
- Jul 14, 2014
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Absolutely, especially after the way the club treated Bennett, why would any player put their trust in management?
That's exactly why I think Kevvie is the right choice for now. Whether he's a technically excellent coach I have no idea, but over the last few years White and Morris and their boy Pies ripped the heart out of the club and Walters is the most likely guy to fix it.
Come on mate.
Gilly, Civonceva circa 2007 etc...remind me of the loyalty Bennett and the club showed to them?
It’s always been this.
Whilst the decisions made recently haven’t been right (check out the scoreboard) but you can’t say this “it’s a business” thing is recent.
- Aug 27, 2008
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Well, the article actually quoted Turps as saying that KW is a winner, and brings a winning culture to the club, so .........
lynx000
State of Origin Rep
- Jul 28, 2008
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The article was clearly Turpin talking about KW being a winner.
Culhwch
NRL Captain
- Mar 28, 2008
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That’s fair enough – I was thinking ‘beloved’ in terms of fans.
The man/team/personality management was definitely missing presumed dead during Seibold’s short reign. I don’t necessarily disagree with the thought process behind any of those moves (except perhaps Su’a), but you can certainly see the detrimental effect that those changes had on the playing group.
abashii
NRL Player
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Disagree. Sure the "it's a business" thing didn't start in 2018 but there is an ocean of difference between not re-signing a player on what they feel they deserve to be paid and moving players on mid-contract where they're here one day and gone the next, or publicly stating the coach will be seeing out his contract while privately trying to drive a wedge between the players and coach and making deals to move him on then sacking him for essentially made-up reasons.
As someone said better than I:
TBF to Seibold, most coaches coming into a new club cut players (Walters has done just that already, as has Bennett at every club he’s gone to).
The only real difference is they normally do so in the pre-season. Seibold didn’t have his first pre-season, so did so on the run (insert joke here).
It’s also a bit unfair to criticise him for cutting players, as you could probably count on a butchers hand the number of people that didn’t agree with those cuts at the time.
Hindsight is a beautiful thing, and this club has absolutely bottled far too many decisions of late, but I don’t think Seibold cutting players was in any real way different to what every other incoming coach does when they arrive.
Big Pete
International Captain
- Mar 12, 2008
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The Broncos weren't ready for a new coach. The roster was set in stone and Bennett was clearly the best fit for the club moving forward.
With that said, the Broncos should never have been in the position they found themselves in with or without Wayne. Seibs clearly has limitations and all of them were exposed during his time at the club. While the roster was far from ideal, it wasn't a 11-12 roster and it especially wasn't on track for 3-17, a good coach would have made it work. It was a bad reflection on him that so many players regressed under him to the point where offering them a release seemed like a viable solution. Especially during the season before their replacements had been announced. On top of that, coaches usually bring in better players, they don't make downgrades like Seibs did.
I just look at the job Bellamy did with Melbourne. He had a different vision for the club, but he still worked with what he had and still made them a top side. It took him about three years to get them to perform to his standard, but it wasn't like he went in there and ripped the band-aid off to fit his vision of the club.
With that said, the Broncos should never have been in the position they found themselves in with or without Wayne. Seibs clearly has limitations and all of them were exposed during his time at the club. While the roster was far from ideal, it wasn't a 11-12 roster and it especially wasn't on track for 3-17, a good coach would have made it work. It was a bad reflection on him that so many players regressed under him to the point where offering them a release seemed like a viable solution. Especially during the season before their replacements had been announced. On top of that, coaches usually bring in better players, they don't make downgrades like Seibs did.
I just look at the job Bellamy did with Melbourne. He had a different vision for the club, but he still worked with what he had and still made them a top side. It took him about three years to get them to perform to his standard, but it wasn't like he went in there and ripped the band-aid off to fit his vision of the club.
- Mar 4, 2008
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- Thread starter
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pretty much every one of those moves, BHQ (and probably most fans) were begging the club to make for years. with the exception of Su'a, who for the most part, fans weren't fussed if he stayed or left.
don't get me wrong, he sucked as a coach ... but those moves weren't the wrong calls
- Jul 28, 2016
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Not disagreeing with letting those players go (except Sua, he was flagged for our future back row with Fifita and now we have neither) ... only the manner in which it was undertaken.
From the outside looking in it seemed that once a player was flagged as being depth they wanted out or were let go (Kodi, Kahu, Macca, Sua, etc.) and based on reports we were happy to foot the bill on pretty much all of them ... so that probably points to poor management of the situation from either the coach (lack of reassurance from the coach that the player is still wanted) or the back office (we need to clear cap and you're not wanted... where are you going to go??)
Even rumours of McGuire not being wanted or flagging that he won't be re-signed with 3 years left on his contract at the time.
I think it just started to look callous given the mass number of players moved on and the short period of time that it occurred in... they say that it's a business, but that period over the last few years was the first time it actually felt like it with the Broncos.
Combine that with a lack of genuine leaders in the squad to reassure players with what was going on and it potentially eroded away morale of the squad with players looking over their shoulder waiting for a tap and being told they're not wanted.
Soon you have silos in the squad with no leadership to bring everyone back together (players, coaching or management)
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I am not sure this is a particularly apt analogy.
Bellamy arrived at a relatively green club (only starting their seventh season when he came on board) with one premiership and otherwise comparatively low expectations (as sure as the day is long they weren’t the successful club they are now).
A more accurate example might be if someone can carry on that success after Bellamy.
Which in itself is an interesting consideration. It’s no secret the Storm have modelled a lot of their success off the Broncos, but perhaps the biggest lesson they need to learn from us is the consequences of poor succession planning.
If they don’t nail it, and there is no guarantee they will, they could find themselves in the exact same position as us in the next 5-10 years.
abashii
NRL Player
- Jul 14, 2014
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Part of good management is not forcing the "right" move when it's not the right time. If he left it too late to move players on before the season started he could always have waited until it was finished. After all, in a fit of brilliance White gave him a super long contract. And in any case we were letting him have a say in our roster while he was still coaching Souths.
Cutting players might be a relatively common thing but I'll judge Pies, and those who brought him in, on his results. Jason Taylor made a big show of chopping out the dead wood too and look how well that worked out for club and coach.
I'm not particularly interested in whether a bunch of internet heroes thought it was a great idea. Most fans aren't professional coaches, don't see the players train, don't see the reserve grade games, don't know the team dynamics, and often rely on the tv coverage along with internet memes for their opinions. If the million dollar fatso and his halfwit mates in management get a free pass because well hey a bunch of johnny know-nothings posting under psuedonyms with all care and no responsibility reckoned it was a great fucken idea then that just perfectly encapsulates the club's descent into mediocrity and worse.
When the dust settles, all we have to judge Seibold on is his results - you won’t get any argument from me on that.
To be incredibly kind, they were atrocious.
I am just not sure he made the wrong calls when it came to cutting (most of) the players he did. I do, however, believe a lot of his other practices went a long way to eroding the confidence the remaining players had in him and themselves.
- Sep 6, 2013
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He cut but had nothing to stop the bleeding. There were no exciting ins to replace the outs, there was no game plan to get behind and there was no confidence stemming from anything he said or did. It was more of a man, hope he is just a bit camera shy but a gun behind closed doors but nope, he was a dud in every facet of what a coach should be.
- Apr 26, 2008
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It's not at all about who he cut but the manner in which he did it. It was all abrupt, impersonal, pretty damn cold, and I guess that rang through everything he did since clearly he sucked out all emotion from the club.
