Ill-discipline

[WASSHHH]

You're only seeing half the picture though. It isn't just us conceding a heap of penalties, we are also absolutely dreadful at getting penalties awarded to us - as highlighted by us not making it out of the bottom 4-5 sides for penalties awarded to us going back to 2014 - when both Offa and Flegler were still in high school.

Whilst that’s true; we can’t really influence penalties awarded to us, but we do have the ability to control penalties conceded.

 

[Kooly87]

Whilst that’s true; we can’t really influence penalties awarded to us, but we do have the ability to control penalties conceded.

You're missing my point. I'm well aware we can't control penalties awarded to us, only the officials can, which is what makes it so fascinating that stretching back over a decade now we've been amongst the bottom 4-5 sides in almost every year at getting those calls to go our way.

Does it strike you as particularly likely or realistic that the entire competition has magically managed to turn up on their absolute best behaviour every time they've played us going back for around a decade now?

 

[WASSHHH]

You're missing my point. I'm well aware we can't control penalties awarded to us, only the officials can, which is what makes it so fascinating that stretching back over a decade now we've been amongst the bottom 4-5 sides in almost every year at getting those calls to go our way.

Does it strike you as particularly likely or realistic that the entire competition has magically managed to turn up on their absolute best behaviour every time they've played us going back for around a decade now?

I’m not missing you’re point, no.

You may not like it, and you may very well be right that they’re out to get us (we’ve always been shafted, I vividly remember a knockout 2002 final against the Roosters under Harrigan had an 8-0 penalty count until around the 70min mark, essentially refereeing us out of the game).

But what is the solution? Perhaps we need to focus on what we can control, rather than what we can’t.

And yes, I believe we also absolutely get stung for penalties whilst other teams do not for the same infringements. But similarly, some of the penalties we give away leave the referee with absolutely no choice.

My point is that we wouldn’t be as lopsided if we didn’t give away so many downright ridiculous penalties. Flegler and Ofahengaue are chief culprits in that regard. They come on, full of energy and testosterone and almost instantly give away a penalty.

It’s just dumb, particularly from Ofahengaue who is experienced enough now to know better.

 

[Skathen]

I think there are multiple parts to why this is the case:

1) Broncos have a bit of a culture to not be seen as whingers. We don't have a JT/Smith/Gallen/etc... standing there week in week out holding the ref to account for dodgy calls or lack there of. No squeaky wheel.....

2) The aura of suncorp is real, our fans make a shed load of noise and at one stage, we did probably jeer our way to a few more penalties. This slowed down pretty rapidly at one point, possibly they were given direction to be more mindful of this - this may be leading to over compensation?

3) Super league scars - there are power brokers in the NRL likely still hold a grudge.

4) Tall poppy syndrome, for many years we were the benchmark.

5) I'd love to see the stats of games were a team races off to a healthy start, how many "help along" penalties the team that is behind on the board get. How many times have we seen it, we get out to a 2-3 try lead, then its just all against us from that point, penalty after penalty and nothing given to us. Ref's trying to make the game look more balanced than it is, bringing the other team back into it and often they end up running over the top of us. Happened more times than I care to remember.

 

[Ffs...]

We arent fit and mentally tough enough. Its been an issue for years and imo the biggest reason the club brought in Seibold.

 

[the_next]

Some interesting stats that Fox Sports have put up:

ERRORS
Brodie Croft 10
Corey Oates 10
Jamayne Isaako 10
Anthony Milford 9
Herbie Farnworth 8
Thomas Flegler 8

PENALTIES CONCEDED
Patrick Carrigan 5 penalties + 7 set restarts = Total 12
Anthony Milford 5 penalties + 4 set restarts = Total 9
Payne Haas 3 penalties + 4 set restarts = Total 7
Darius Boyd 5 penalties + 1 set restart = Total 6
Thomas Flegler 3 penalties + 3 set restarts = Total 6

MISSED TACKLES
Anthony Milford 24
Brodie Croft 15
Patrick Carrigan 14
Jamil Hopoate 13
Tevita Pangai 13
Herbie Farnworth 10

TRY CAUSES
Anthony Milford 8
Jesse Arthars 8
Herbie Farnworth 7
Xavier Coates 7
Tesi Niu 7

One thing quite noticeable to me there is that our million dollar man is appearing in all 4 stats and high up there also. Whilst our other half is in 2/4..

 

[BroncsFan]

MISSED TACKLES
Anthony Milford 24
Brodie Croft 15
Patrick Carrigan 14
Jamil Hopoate 13
Tevita Pangai 13
Herbie Farnworth 10

TACKLES MADE (EFFICIENCY)
Anthony Milford 81 (77%)
Brodie Croft 169 (92%)
Patrick Carrigan 305 (96%)
Jamil Hopoate 140 (91.5%)
Tevita Pangai 127 (91%)
Herbie Farnworth 97 (91%)

One player seems to be more concerning than the others

 

[Wolfie]

Pat certainly needs to work on his penalty count.

 

[broncsgoat]

I remember when we signed milf for his defence.

 

[Finbar]

Whilst our other half is in 2/4

Brodie's missed tackles stat isn't concerning when put into context of how many tackles he's had to make (over twice as many tackles made compared to Milford). Despite having to make so many, he's still missed quite a few less than Milford.

I remember when we signed milf for his defence.

Despite only half the traffic being sent Milford's way when compared to Croft, he still can't fire in attack.

 

[broncsgoat]

Brodie's missed tackles stat isn't concerning when put into context of how many tackles he's had to make (over twice as many tackles made compared to Milford). Despite having to make so many, he's still missed quite a few less than Milford.



Despite only half the traffic being sent Milford's way when compared to Croft, he still can't fire in attack.

The whole team can’t, wonder if that has to do with the coaching. We finally get the majority of the ball and milf plays well and Croft puts in another stinker

 

[Dexter]

This is why I'm so pissed at the CM. In years gone by they would run this as a story and stick up for their home town team .

Sure they would run the other stuff as well but these days it's just one kick after another from grubs like PB. I can't stand his shit eating grin when he gets himself all gussied up for 360 either.

 

[Kooly87]

I’m not missing you’re point, no.

You may not like it, and you may very well be right that they’re out to get us (we’ve always been shafted, I vividly remember a knockout 2002 final against the Roosters under Harrigan had an 8-0 penalty count until around the 70min mark, essentially refereeing us out of the game).

But what is the solution? Perhaps we need to focus on what we can control, rather than what we can’t.

And yes, I believe we also absolutely get stung for penalties whilst other teams do not for the same infringements. But similarly, some of the penalties we give away leave the referee with absolutely no choice.

My point is that we wouldn’t be as lopsided if we didn’t give away so many downright ridiculous penalties. Flegler and Ofahengaue are chief culprits in that regard. They come on, full of energy and testosterone and almost instantly give away a penalty.

It’s just dumb, particularly from Ofahengaue who is experienced enough now to know better.

You have missed my point, now I'm absolutely certain of it.

We were struggling to with conceding penalties long before you even knew who Offa and Flegler even were.

We've been struggling to win penalties for even longer than that, and yes, it's not something we can directly control, but a pattern like that over such an extensive period is not happening by chance and it's not something that appears to be evening out with time, in fact the total opposite appears to be true. If the club isn't aware of it and looking to do something about it or even bring it to the attention of the NRL then they're either poorly prepared and organised or just outright incompetent, or probably both.

 

[Skathen]

This is why I'm so pissed at the CM. In years gone by they would run this as a story and stick up for their home town team .

Sure they would run the other stuff as well but these days it's just one kick after another from grubs like PB. I can't stand his shit eating grin when he gets himself all gussied up for 360 either.

Drama sells better.

 

[Slippin Jimmy]

We were struggling to with conceding penalties long before you even knew who Offa and Flegler even were.

What are you basing this on? For the last decade we have been among the least penalised teams in the comp.

 

[WASSHHH]

You have missed my point, now I'm absolutely certain of it.

We were struggling to with conceding penalties long before you even knew who Offa and Flegler even were.

We've been struggling to win penalties for even longer than that, and yes, it's not something we can directly control, but a pattern like that over such an extensive period is not happening by chance and it's not something that appears to be evening out with time, in fact the total opposite appears to be true. If the club isn't aware of it and looking to do something about it or even bring it to the attention of the NRL then they're either poorly prepared and organised or just outright incompetent, or probably both.

Not sure I’m the one missing anything here.

If you go back and look over the conversation, you will see that I am not fundamentally disagreeing with you, what I am saying is that we can actually do something about giving away stupid penalties (and the 2 players I’ve mentioned seem to have stupid penalties in them more than most (every team has them)). But we simply cannot do anything except whinge to the NRL about not receiving enough penalties (but, as I said, the outcome of that is not within our control - nor is it likely to really, truly achieve anything either).

The result of giving away less penalties is a smaller gap between penalties received and penalties conceded.

I’m not sure how I can make that any clearer.

Regardless, the fact remains, this is not the reason we are losing. Sure, sometimes it sucks and you may feel like it was all the refs fault (and certainly, sometimes they seem to be doing their best to make a win impossible).

But, winners find a way to win, losers find excuses.

EDIT: should have said, I am not saying you’re a loser . But hard edge teams don’t allow excuses for losses, they go away and get better. We are not a hard edged team, haven’t been for far too long either.

 

[Huge]

The whole team can’t, wonder if that has to do with the coaching. We finally get the majority of the ball and milf plays well and Croft puts in another stinker

Why do you keep repeating a fallacy? Croft didn't have a 'stinker' and you're totally misrepresenting the facts. I plead with you, go and watch the game and pay attention to Croft, he had a very solid game and played a hand in a try and had Coates held the ball, he would've had a try assist. Not forgetting a deft grubber for a goal line drop out and 24 tackles with a solitary miss. Milford was okay but did nothing special aside from a brilliant kick for Isaako while Croft also was okay.

 

[Kooly87]

Not sure I’m the one missing anything here.

If you go back and look over the conversation, you will see that I am not fundamentally disagreeing with you, what I am saying is that we can actually do something about giving away stupid penalties (and the 2 players I’ve mentioned seem to have stupid penalties in them more than most (every team has them)). But we simply cannot do anything except whinge to the NRL about not receiving enough penalties (but, as I said, the outcome of that is not within our control - nor is it likely to really, truly achieve anything either).

The result of giving away less penalties is a smaller gap between penalties received and penalties conceded.

I’m not sure how I can make that any clearer.

Regardless, the fact remains, this is not the reason we are losing. Sure, sometimes it sucks and you may feel like it was all the refs fault (and certainly, sometimes they seem to be doing their best to make a win impossible).

But, winners find a way to win, losers find excuses.

EDIT: should have said, I am not saying you’re a loser . But hard edge teams don’t allow excuses for losses, they go away and get better. We are not a hard edged team, haven’t been for far too long either.

I understand what you're saying and I've already agreed with it, our discipline is simply not good enough and we make it very hard for ourselves with the number of penalties we've conceded in recent years.

Let's assume we do turn that discipline around though, it might even out our deficit overall, but until we can be awarded even just a mid table number of penalties in our favour, we are constantly going to struggle to compete on a regular basis.

People are constantly frustrated with our Forwards being flat footed, not breaking the line or even making the advantage line, and our Halves constantly kicking into opposition players arms, but honestly, that sort of stuff should not be surprising when on any given week we are left constantly rucking the ball out of our own end on our own because we only average around 3.5 penalties a week and other sides are averaging almost twice that many.

I appreciate we cannot change things that are in the Referee's control mid game, but at a Coaching and administration level it means we're either:

(A) Doing something seriously wrong on field and have been for almost a decade now apparently, in which case the bare minimum that a decent organisation would have done is at least engage the Referees to come up and attend training and talk to the players about what they're doing wrong and why they are consistently amongst the worse in the competition at having penalties awarded to us.

or

(B) The Referees are genuinely not treating us fairly, in which case we should be honestly jumping up and down about it in the media far more than we are. God knows that's worked for other clubs.

Either way, to pretend it isn't a genuine issue or to do absolutely nothing about it is honestly a failure by the club no matter what the cause is.