Dobbo Warning Israel Folau’s secret meeting with the Brisbane Broncos revealed

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roo-ted

NRL Player
A mentoring program I don't have a problem with(provided it's secular), that decision for involvement should be upto them though, not forced by anyone including their parents.
Yeah absolutely, I would suggest other transgender people running the program as they have been through the pros and cons of the commitment.
 
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But that’s the thing mate, you say that a 16 year old is old enough to decide weather they want to make a life long decision such as transitioning. So surely they can choose whether or not they believe in religion or what an ex footballer says.

If anything the media are they ones forcing his views onto the community by showing it on the news, this was all said inside a church and the media decided to post it all over the tv. Dose this mean the media are being reasonable? Considering the effect it has on transgender people?

Also if he shouldn’t be able to push his agenda due to his profile, dose that rule also apply to people with opposite views to Him?

It is an extremely complex subject and can be look at from hundreds of different angles.
Before transitioning they don't just go to the local gp and walk out as a new sex. They go through years of psych reviews and therapy. Are you or any of us more qualified than the multiple doctors and psychologists who are needed to approve the procedure? Hell no! Is Folau? Haha... Its like how religious people think religion or creationism should have any part in science classes, stick to what they know. Reading a book... And not even all of it. And making subjective commentary based on what is in this book, pretending it is fact and talking about it like they were there.

And religion isn't forced on people at 16 years of age. Why don't you go watch the documentary "jesus camp", or Louis theroux's "americas most hated family", or go and talk to a child in an average poor African or Middle Eastern country. These kids aren't 16. They are 2 or 3 years of age when it is given to them. Just like santa Claus, which they also belive btw. The only difference is if they deny or question religion they are vilified in sometimes small or mostly very big ways, kicked out of the family in most cases, and often physically and mentally abused immediately and often forever or until they stop questioning it...
 

NSW stables

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Before transitioning they don't just go to the local gp and walk out as a new sex. They go through years of psych reviews and therapy. Are you or any of us more qualified than the multiple doctors and psychologists who are needed to approve the procedure? Hell no! Is Folau? Haha... Its like how religious people think religion or creationism should have any part in science classes, stick to what they know. Reading a book... And not even all of it. And making subjective commentary based on what is in this book, pretending it is fact and talking about it like they were there.

And religion isn't forced on people at 16 years of age. Why don't you go watch the documentary "jesus camp", or Louis theroux's "americas most hated family", or go and talk to a child in an average poor African or Middle Eastern country. These kids aren't 16. They are 2 or 3 years of age when it is given to them. Just like santa Claus, which they also belive btw. The only difference is if they deny or question religion they are vilified in sometimes small or mostly very big ways, kicked out of the family in most cases, and often physically and mentally abused immediately and often forever or until they stop questioning it...
Totally agree with you.

Transitioning is a very complex process and the decision to do so is not done lightly (it is not only a 16 year old thinking, i wanna be a dude from now on, it involves dozens of health professionals and counselling etc).

I would trust the specialists in this field for a valid opinion, not a sports person who cant work out/make a decision what code of football he wants to play.

I am not an expert on the bible either, but i dont think a thousand year old text would make much specific comment on the transgender transitioning process and appropriate age to take hormones etc :).

This is his opinion, not something discussed in the bible so dont try and sell it as that.

And stop blaming the devil, he is a personal friend and is sick of being blamed for everything.
 

roo-ted

NRL Player
Before transitioning they don't just go to the local gp and walk out as a new sex. They go through years of psych reviews and therapy. Are you or any of us more qualified than the multiple doctors and psychologists who are needed to approve the procedure? Hell no! Is Folau? Haha... Its like how religious people think religion or creationism should have any part in science classes, stick to what they know. Reading a book... And not even all of it. And making subjective commentary based on what is in this book, pretending it is fact and talking about it like they were there.

And religion isn't forced on people at 16 years of age. Why don't you go watch the documentary "jesus camp", or Louis theroux's "americas most hated family", or go and talk to a child in an average poor African or Middle Eastern country. These kids aren't 16. They are 2 or 3 years of age when it is given to them. Just like santa Claus, which they also belive btw. The only difference is if they deny or question religion they are vilified in sometimes small or mostly very big ways, kicked out of the family in most cases, and often physically and mentally abused immediately and often forever or until they stop questioning it...
I never said anything about a kid going to the GP and coming out a different gender.
I was more speaking about it being to young for a 16 year old to make a massive decision like that without the parents being involved. You don’t need a qualification to know the difference of right from wrong. This bullshit that a 16 year old isn’t a child and that they are capable of massive decisions is ridiculous. The part of a 16 year olds brain that makes decisions isn’t even fully developed. My view isn’t coming from a religious stand it’s moral.
Parents involvement in a child’s life is the most important thing in the early parts of a life and to start dismissing that is just setting the next generation up for failure.

I also didn’t say anything about the age of kids being exposed to religion.
 
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Sirlee oldman

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I don’t really want to get involved in this debate because I don’t know enough about what these kids are going through but I just think it’s interesting that it’s illegal to get a tattoo under the age of 18 even with parental permission. I am guessing that is because under 18 you are considered to be too young to make lifelong decisions.
 

JAHHW

NRL Player
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I don’t really want to get involved in this debate because I don’t know enough about what these kids are going through but I just think it’s interesting that it’s illegal to get a tattoo under the age of 18 even with parental permission. I am guessing that is because under 18 you are considered to be too young to make lifelong decisions.
I’m with you.

I don’t know anywhere near enough about either side of this argument to form a valid opinion, so best to stay out of it.
 

Morepudding

NRL Player
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where the **** do you work? People are allowed to not like gay people and express their opinion just as much as gay people are allowed to be gay and have a fucking parade.



See i think this is fucking ridiculous. Not due to religious reasoning, just because its fucking stupid. If I cared enough I'd do a post saying as much and if my employer sacked me over it I'd sue them fucking blind.
I think the issue is the way he has done it. What he says more closely aligns with hate speech, which is not accepted. If he were to say, "I don't think it's right for people to be gay", that would be an opinion he is entitled to, saying "Gay people are going to hell", that is hate speech which would be cause for dismisal.
 

coreyh88

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I think the issue is the way he has done it. What he says more closely aligns with hate speech, which is not accepted. If he were to say, "I don't think it's right for people to be gay", that would be an opinion he is entitled to, saying "Gay people are going to hell", that is hate speech which would be cause for dismisal.
Long post warning

And opinions like yours are why I don't think speech shouldn't be regulated in any form beyond calls to violence and threats. Example on similar religious lines:

Biblical and almost universally Christian view: "If you are not baptised you will go to hell." In your opinion hate speech which should be punishable. Although all religions would hold a nearly identical viewpoint (albeit through different means)

View not held by Christians at large: "it's not right for people to not get baptised" Perfectly acceptable speech in your opinion. Although I believe very few Christians would believe this or think it is acceptable.

I know Religion has been used to justify a tonne of terrible things in history and even today. Even more terrible things have been committed by terrible religious people that justify themselves. This makes it pretty difficult to empathise. But religious freedoms needs to be protected, people need to be judge upon actions, not opinions or words. You have to remember that attrocities have been comitted upon religious people en masse too. Whether than be due to anti-religious opinion (Ancient Rome, NAZI Germany, Soviet Union, Communist China [even today], current treatment of muslims) or opposing religious ideologies (crusades, Christian treatment in muslim majority countries, myanmar).

Honestly the question of what to do with religious viewpoints that advocate violence or real discrimination is a difficult one. My gut reaction is that these religions should be stifled. But in reality the common denominator is terrible people, not terrible religion. My understanding or Islam is poor but I believe it directly encourages discrimination and violence. I really want to say that it should be fought, but I see so many people of Islamic faith denounce these things. I look at Christianity and how it has been used to justify reprehensible positions (crusades, slavery, dehumanization and discrimination of gays). I do however have an extremely well informed view of the bible and know that it doesn't justify any of this. This makes me realize that:

1. Everyone should be treated as an individual and not be tarred with the same brush as the worst of those that belong to their group. Jihadists aren't necessarily an example of Islam, Likewise, eco-terrorists or the homosexual mass shooter that attacked a lobbyist headquarters.

2. Terrible people will do terrible things. No amount of restricting speech (beyond threats and calls to violent action) will stop that. It also can't be done fairly as speech is so subjective. Every person has a differing opinion of what is and isn't acceptable. What is or isn't hate-speech. Restriction of speech has so far only been done by dictatorial regimes and always has poor consequences, we can see this play out in Iran and China today.

3. Restricting religion or religious ideas has historically lead to terrible things as well. We can see this in the renaissance with scientific discoveries occurring to scientists of the time by the theocracy of the day. This is hopefully relatable to most, although no different to the road we could head down today with a role reversal. The results of this were seen with Jews in NAZI Germany, all religions in the USSR and religion today in China.
 

holdzy89

NRL Captain
4,098
2,560
Long post warning

And opinions like yours are why I don't think speech shouldn't be regulated in any form beyond calls to violence and threats. Example on similar religious lines:

Biblical and almost universally Christian view: "If you are not baptised you will go to hell." In your opinion hate speech which should be punishable. Although all religions would hold a nearly identical viewpoint (albeit through different means)

View not held by Christians at large: "it's not right for people to not get baptised" Perfectly acceptable speech in your opinion. Although I believe very few Christians would believe this or think it is acceptable.

I know Religion has been used to justify a tonne of terrible things in history and even today. Even more terrible things have been committed by terrible religious people that justify themselves. This makes it pretty difficult to empathise. But religious freedoms needs to be protected, people need to be judge upon actions, not opinions or words. You have to remember that attrocities have been comitted upon religious people en masse too. Whether than be due to anti-religious opinion (Ancient Rome, NAZI Germany, Soviet Union, Communist China [even today], current treatment of muslims) or opposing religious ideologies (crusades, Christian treatment in muslim majority countries, myanmar).

Honestly the question of what to do with religious viewpoints that advocate violence or real discrimination is a difficult one. My gut reaction is that these religions should be stifled. But in reality the common denominator is terrible people, not terrible religion. My understanding or Islam is poor but I believe it directly encourages discrimination and violence. I really want to say that it should be fought, but I see so many people of Islamic faith denounce these things. I look at Christianity and how it has been used to justify reprehensible positions (crusades, slavery, dehumanization and discrimination of gays). I do however have an extremely well informed view of the bible and know that it doesn't justify any of this. This makes me realize that:

1. Everyone should be treated as an individual and not be tarred with the same brush as the worst of those that belong to their group. Jihadists aren't necessarily an example of Islam, Likewise, eco-terrorists or the homosexual mass shooter that attacked a lobbyist headquarters.

2. Terrible people will do terrible things. No amount of restricting speech (beyond threats and calls to violent action) will stop that. It also can't be done fairly as speech is so subjective. Every person has a differing opinion of what is and isn't acceptable. What is or isn't hate-speech. Restriction of speech has so far only been done by dictatorial regimes and always has poor consequences, we can see this play out in Iran and China today.

3. Restricting religion or religious ideas has historically lead to terrible things as well. We can see this in the renaissance with scientific discoveries occurring to scientists of the time by the theocracy of the day. This is hopefully relatable to most, although no different to the road we could head down today with a role reversal. The results of this were seen with Jews in NAZI Germany, all religions in the USSR and religion today in China.
Mate, religion causes 99% of the problems religion has in the world. I agree with your notions about free speech to a large extent, I don't want to ban Israel from saying whatever he wants at all. Where one encourages others into action that adversely affects anyone but themselves, rooted in subjective beliefs about morality, supernatural ie not objective fact, it becomes an issue.
You are also conflating this with religious freedoms, but basically sort of qualifying what is basically hate speech - gay people are going to hell for being gay. That's not an acceptable idea to express in 2019, it's not different than saying black people go to hell for being black these days. Can't hide behind 'religious freedoms' on that one.

Anyway, no to Israel. Only good in a team of superstars, shit attitude etc.
 

Broncapz

QCup Player
469
660
If only religious people opposed violence, drone bombings, proxy wars and unneeded military action as much as they opposed LGBTQ stuff. World would be a much more peaceful place, but apparantly all the sex and gender is stuff is more evil then the deaths of innocents.
 

Morkel

International Captain
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Warning: There has been an update on Folau's situation, so the thread will be re-opened shortly. Please remember to debate the topic, and refrain from taking the conversation in to one regarding religion.
 
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Morkel

International Captain
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Israel Folau details cost of legal battle with Rugby Australia and asks for public donations

Israel Folau has started a GoFundMe page asking the public for $3 million after revealing details of his bitter dispute with Rugby Australia.


Israel Folau has started a GoFundMe page asking the public for $3 million to help his legal fight against Rugby Australia (RA) after the Wallabies star was sacked for a homophobic social media post.

Folau had his $5 million contract torn up after being found guilty of a code of conduct breach when he uploaded a graphic on Instagram claiming “hell awaits” gay people unless they repent for their sins.

But he believes he was wrongfully terminated and has pledged to take legal action against his former employer. In a video uploaded to YouTube on Thursday night, Folau said he and wife Maria have already spent upwards of $100,000 in legal fees, and asked for financial help to continue his battle against Rugby Australia.

“I believe it is my duty as a Christian to share God’s word. Rugby Australia tore up my employment contract for doing just that, and that’s wrong,” Folau said in his video.

“Every Australian should be able to practise their religion without fear of discrimination in the workplace.

“Rugby Australia has an army of lawyers at their disposal and they have already said they will divert significant resources to fight me in court. The cost to me and my family of continuing my legal action against Rugby Australia is expected to be significant.

“Since my contract was terminated I have been overwhelmed and humbled by the support received from family, friends, fans and the public. Even people who don’t share my beliefs have defended my right to uphold and express them.

“They made me realise I’m not just fighting for my future and my family; I’m fighting for what is right. But I can’t do it alone.”

At the end of his clip, Folau directs people who want to donate to a GoFundMe page. At the time of writing, he had raised $330 of his $3 million goal.

“My faith is the most important thing in my life. I try to live my life according to the Bible and I believe it is my duty to share the word of the Bible,” Folau wrote on his page.

“I believe that sharing the Bible is an act of love and compassion.

“I know some people do not like or believe in the Bible. Indeed, what makes our country so wonderful is that we have such a diverse community made up of so many different cultures and values. But my faith defines me as a person. I do not believe that it is fair or right that I be punished for my religious beliefs.

“I believe the termination of my contract is unlawful, which is why I have started legal proceedings against Rugby Australia and Rugby NSW.

“I know I am putting myself on the line — this action will be very costly in terms of time, money and reputation — but I do not intend to stop now.

“I would be very grateful for your support. Could you make a donation, within your capacity to give, in order to support my action? I have the fight of my life on my hands and every little bit will help.”

The latest development in the Folau saga comes after a video of the dual international doubling down on his anti-gay stance in a church sermon emerged online.

Footage of Folau’s speech was uploaded to The Truth of Jesus Christ Church Sydney Facebook page on Sunday and showed him criticising churches for allowing same-sex marriage. Speaking to his congregation, Folau said homosexuality was a “sin” and the result of trying to please man rather than God.

He also told an anecdote about a politician at a Christian function speaking about what “the parliament is trying to instil into the government going forward”.

“A lot of the points are, he’s talking about how the work of the sin, homosexuality, is in disguise to try and take over within this world,” Folau said.

“You see a lot of things in today’s news and everything. They’re allowing young kids in primary school to be able to have the permission to change their gender if they want by taking away the permission of their parents.

“Now they’re trying to take control as a government to make that decision for kids that are basically 16-years-old or younger. They don’t even know what they’re doing.

“This is what the devil’s trying to do to instil into this government, into this world, into this society and it’s slowly happening.”

Folau criticised some churches for accepting gay marriage and called on his fellow Christians to stand up for God’s teachings.

“The sad thing is while a lot of people out there who are non-Christians say bad things about the church, a lot of churches today allow those things to happen,” Folau said.

“They say that a man and a man should be allowed to get married and there’s nothing wrong with that. This ties into the theme of pleasing man rather than pleasing God and standing up for the truth.

“If there’s ever a time to stand up for the word of God, now is the time.”

 
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