Jack Bird Discussion

[Huge]

The reason the sharks are at fault is they pay the doc bills. I would like to know if he just got a ct or if he had an mri. Big difference in what can be shown injury wise. If the sharks couldn't be fucked and just wanted a star on the field they may have just sent hom for a ct scan to check for bone/structural damage. If they avoided the MRI then their pricks.

But as we don't know we can have an ignorant opinion only. Ignorant in the sense that we don't have all the facts so at best, we can have only conjecture. Apportionment of blame cannot really be made until we know all the facts. I'd say Bird may have had an imput, as House says, everyone lies.

 

[Morkel]

There’s so much conflatement and deliberate ignoramishness going on in order to obfuscatise just how dodgy the Sharks are.

 

[Super Freak]

Could you shed some light on how the Sharks 'took advantage' of the doctor patient relationship most particularly the advice and treatment his injury. Are you suggesting the doctor committed some kind of crime and your statement seems to indicate some personel knowledge about the dealings.

It seems you have not read anything about the situation.

All of the details about it have been made public and you can find them in this thread.

I would suggest you go back and read all of it to find out all of the facts.

 

[Porthoz]

Trust his own body ? Where did I say that ?

How did a 6 week course of supplements taken 7 years ago help them win the 2016 premiership? That's just about as ludicrous a statement as has ever been made on here !

Semantics, really?
Ok, you said KNOWS his own body, as opposed to trusts. Happy now?

"6 weeks of supplements...", and my statement is ludicrous!? LOL
I'm not going to discuss the whole peptide saga, and the lack of punishment for a clear case of ADMITTED DOPING, again.
Had the Sharks players and staff involved in it, been suspended according to WADA (and ASADA) rules, they more than likely, wouldn't have won their maiden premiership.

Regardless, the point is that you argued the players "innocence" for trusting the medical staff on the "supplements" given outside of club grounds, via injection, and under great secrecy... you know, not dodgy at all.
And yet, you blame Bird for not taking a second opinion from his own doctor on a sports injury matter, when he was under care of the supposedly best specialist in Australia.

Are you going to deflect again, or argue that the 2 things are different? Why should the players trust the medical staff in one case, and not the other?
Unless you are implying that given its history, Bird shouldn't trust the Sharks organisation, in particular their medical dept... in which case, you would be right of course!

 

[Huge]

It seems you have not read anything about the situation.

All of the details about it have been made public and you can find them in this thread.

I would suggest you go back and read all of it to find out all of the facts.

Oh, when will charges be laid ? Has that been made public yet ? I must have missed it.

 

[Foordy]

Okay, I get you're outright accusing an NRL club and one of Australia's best surgeons/ doctors of some sort of collusion and negligence.

Could you now present the evidence and have you forwarded it onto the NRL, police and AMA ?

fine have it your way ... either one of the best specialists in the country was colluding with the Sharks or is completely fucking incompetent ... take your pick.

because any specialist straight out of medical school would order an unclear scan to be re-taken to ensure his diagnosis. was correct.

in this case that didn't happen, either because the Sharks told him not to (and he complied) or he was too bad at his job to realize what should have been done ...

he is definitely at fault for the miss-diagnosis ... the question is whether the Sharks are complicit as well.

If I was Bird I would personally be making an official complaint to the AMA, and receiving legal advice about whether a malpractice lawsuit could be filed

 

[Huge]

Semantics, really?
Ok, you said KNOWS his own body, as opposed to trusts. Happy now?

"6 weeks of supplements...", and my statement is ludicrous!? LOL
I'm not going to discuss the whole peptide saga, and the lack of punishment for a clear case of ADMITTED DOPING, again.
Had the Sharks players and staff involved in it, been suspended according to WADA (and ASADA) rules, they more than likely, wouldn't have won their maiden premiership.

Regardless, the point is that you argued the players "innocence" for trusting the medical staff on the "supplements" given outside of club grounds, via injection, and under great secrecy... you know, not dodgy at all.
And yet, you blame Bird for not taking a second opinion from his own doctor on a sports injury matter, when he was under care of the supposedly best specialist in Australia.

Are you going to deflect again, or argue that the 2 things are different? Why should the players trust the medical staff in one case, and not the other?
Unless you are implying that given its history, Bird shouldn't trust the Sharks organisation, in particular their medical dept... in which case, you would be right of course!

Last to first.

Bird wasn't there when the supplements saga took place so he would only have second hand reports about the medical staff that were employed at that time.

I didn't blame Bird, I merely said he could have sought a second opinion if he suspected that club wasn't acting in his best interests. Clearly he didn't feel they weren't doing so. Like the players years before he evidently trusted the medical advice.

Whether they would have or not won a premiership 5 years later is total speculation. Your statement was that you accused them of cheating to win a premiership, a claim without any foundation at all. Even had they been banned, that ban would have long been expired and in the year they won they had comprehensive drug testing done. Further, virtually the whole squad was untainted with only two players I believe from that time and even with bans they would have clear to play.

Your claim they cheated has no merit and is based on emotion alone. Due to the fact that you believe the punishment didn't fit the crime you unfairly want to accuse a squad of cheating that had nothing to do with the crime . That's not worthy of someone who generally prides himself on evidence and not false beliefs.

 

[Foordy]

Your claim they cheated

Gallen and co ADMITTED to cheating ... you do know what a guilty plea means don't you

 

[Huge]

fine have it your way ... either one of the best specialists in the country was colluding with the Sharks or is completely fucking incompetent ... take your pick.

because any specialist straight out of medical school would order an unclear scan to be re-taken to ensure his diagnosis. was correct.

in this case that didn't happen, either because the Sharks told him not to (and he complied) or he was too bad at his job to realize what should have been done ...

he is definitely at fault for the miss-diagnosis ... the question is whether the Sharks are complicit as well.

If I was Bird I would personally be making an official complaint to the AMA, and receiving legal advice about whether a malpractice lawsuit could be filed

Strangely, in your eyes there are only two, just two explanations ! It just has to be that hey ?

What if Bird received his report, felt that he was on the mend and said Doc , everything's coming along and I feel fine, swellings gone and the pains all but disappeared. Docs happy, players happy and the Doc relays this to the club. Club says great, when are you ready to go ?

 

[Huge]

Gallen and co ADMITTED to cheating ... you do know what a guilty plea means don't you

Err, you really should read the posts. Nobody disputed they took supplements. Porthoz claimed they cheated to win the title. You do know what context is ,don't you ?

 

[broncsgoat]

Err, you really should read the posts. Nobody disputed they took supplements. Porthoz claimed they cheated to win the title. You do know what context is ,don't you ?

They cheated in an attempt to win a title. They’re scum bags.

 

[lynx000]

Once again it is fairly fruitless trying to have this discussion with Huge (just my observation over many years).

 

[Porthoz]

Last to first.

Bird wasn't there when the supplements saga took place so he would only have second hand reports about the medical staff that were employed at that time.

I didn't blame Bird, I merely said he could have sought a second opinion if he suspected that club wasn't acting in his best interests. Clearly he didn't feel they weren't doing so. Like the players years before he evidently trusted the medical advice.

I agree with you here, but your statements re the players in both affairs are quite different, which was my initial point.

Whether they would have or not won a premiership 5 years later is total speculation. Your statement was that you accused them of cheating to win a premiership, a claim without any foundation at all. Even had they been banned, that ban would have long been expired and in the year they won they had comprehensive drug testing done. Further, virtually the whole squad was untainted with only two players I believe from that time and even with bans they would have clear to play.

Your claim they cheated has no merit and is based on emotion alone. Due to the fact that you believe the punishment didn't fit the crime you unfairly want to accuse a squad of cheating that had nothing to do with the crime . That's not worthy of someone who generally prides himself on evidence and not false beliefs.

Fact 1: The Sharks administrated enhancing and prohibited substances to their players, which amounts to cheating.
Fact 2: The players admitted to Fact 1, which again amounts to cheating.
Fact 3: This was only discovered years later. (2014)
Fact 4: Standard MINIMAL punishment in such matters is a 2 years suspension, none of it retroactive!
Fact 5: Punishment was not only way below the standard, it was dealt retroactively.

Players and staff should've been punished according to standards, which would've meant they would not have been available in 2016. So no, not an untainted squad, not an untainted coach, not and untainted organisation!
Like it or not, speculative or not, winning a premiership without said players and staff (including an important senior player, their captain and their coach), as well as all the logistics issues associated with it, in a competition as tight as the NRL, would be highly unlikely.

So, not only did the Sharks attempted to cheat their way into a premiership, ASADA and the NRL helped them get there. I couldn't give a **** whether this would stand up in court or not, but as far as I'm concerned, they had an illegal team in 2016, and I (with many others) call that cheating.

P.S. If the doping affair had been discovered earlier and punished accordingly, no one knows what would've happened later. I'm not sure someone like Paul Gallen or even Wade Graham would've come back from it.
Regardless, had the Sharks won a competition after that, I wouldn't have liked it, but I wouldn't have accused them either, like I didn't accuse clubs I despise, such as Manly, Roosters or the Storm last year.

 

[tommy]

So by extension NSW didn't really win the 2014 series? Seeing as their captain was playing while he was suspended?

 

[Huge]

Once again it is fairly fruitless trying to have this discussion with Huge (just my observation over many years).

It will always be fruitless when facts not in evidence are produced to support a position. Like everyone else and I myself have stated in the past, the Sharks cheated and I think it was shit too. I also don't agree that the punishment fitted the crime, it should have been substantially sterner. I however deal with what is, not what should or could be. I see no point wasting any energy on things I cannot change.

What I can't buy into is convincing myself that I am right about something based solely on emotion, I want to always be a pragmatist.

I won't blame hard working guys, who had absolutely no connection with previous sins, for others misdeeds. If you really have read what I've written you will always see one common thread, namely what the union movement calls the workers rights. I'm always about the players, it's seldom about management or a club other than my own.

Another thing I'm about it is you cannot put an old head on young shoulders and young men, under pressure make mistakes. They make them through naivety and inexperience too. Way less forgivable is the callous actions of older guys and gals who cheat and lie and scheme, yes, Cronullas management and coach. They deserved real censure, maybe a few of the older players who should have known better or asked harder questions did too.

 

[Aldo]

Once again it is fairly fruitless trying to have this discussion with Huge (just my observation over many years).

My observations are that Huge is getting owned.........again

 

[Huge]

My observations are that Huge is getting owned.........again

Glad he doesn't feel that way !!!

 

[Mr Fourex]

Way less forgivable is the callous actions of older guys and gals who cheat and lie and scheme, yes, Cronullas management and coach. They deserved real censure, maybe a few of the older players who should have known better or asked harder questions did too.

ie: Paul Gallen.

A lot of the younger players would have looked up to him.

"Hey......if Gals is doing it, it must be ok"

The grubby, cheating shitbag, should have been scrubbed out of the game for life.