Josh Hoffman

[Big Pete]

Re: ben barba/josh hoffman

By that strawman though - anyone of us could do a better job at Hoffman because you just never know.

No, you don't know but you could have a fair idea by watching these players play.

Not enough members on here watch the NYC or ISC (myself included) so they either parrot names others started spouting, cling onto the same guys from the trials or go looking through the Broncos profile page. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Kimlo]

Re: ben barba/josh hoffman

By that strawman though - anyone of us could do a better job at Hoffman because you just never know.

No, you don't know but you could have a fair idea by watching these players play.

Not enough members on here watch the NYC or ISC (myself included) so they either parrot names others started spouting, cling onto the same guys from the trials or go looking through the Broncos profile page. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

If you had a Broncos contract and were allowed to be selected, I'd have full faith in you Pete!

You're right, I watch barely any reserve games, so I'm not the best person to judge, but I'd stop complaining if Hodges was in the 6. I just don't want Hoffman there, he limits the entire team instead of being a lethal winger like he has been in the past.

 

[Porthoz]

Re: ben barba/josh hoffman

By that strawman though - anyone of us could do a better job at Hoffman because you just never know.

No, you don't know but you could have a fair idea by watching these players play.

Not enough members on here watch the NYC or ISC (myself included) so they either parrot names others started spouting, cling onto the same guys from the trials or go looking through the Broncos profile page. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

He no longer deserves the benefit of the doubt. He is not a 5/8, has never been one, and will never be one, even at ISC level. Arguing he killed it at centre in his single ISC game is as desperate as people arguing for Kodi after the nines tournament.

I don't name names because I don't watch enough of the ISC or NYC, but I have absolutely NO DOUBT that any one of our playmakers, be it at ISC or NYC level, were given the time, patience and benefit of the doubt he was given, they would easily put him to shame.

 

[Big Pete]

Re: ben barba/josh hoffman

Which is also as desperate as using hypothetical arguments to promote a player you can't even name...

Hoffman at least showed in that one game he's a class above at that level. That right there really is half the battle.

Again, you can have whatever opinion you want to have. I'm just saying it's really gone beyond that point and doesn't deserve the level of repeating nor scapegoating it deserves. If people actually want to contribute to the discussion, actually watch his competitors and put together an honest assessment of their abilities and why they would be better picks.

Barely ANYONE has tried and so it's basically 'Hoffman sucks, play anyone above him' which contributes absolutely nothing.

 

[Porthoz]

Re: ben barba/josh hoffman

Last time I checked, this thread is about Hoggman.

Being fed-up with him derping it up at 5/8 is definitely a valid point, and hoping anyone (including the left corner post) takes his place isn't without merit either.

But if you want names, here goes...
While the Nikorimas aren't up to the NRL rigors and Taylor was injured for a long time, I do think that either Strasser or Paia'aua from what I've seen of them, would undoubtedly be doing a better job than Hoggman by now, had they had the same opportunity. I won't say anything about Nichols because I have not seen him play at all...

But I will go further and seriously say that besides Barba, Hodges, Hannant, Thaiday and Gillett would also do a better job at 5/8 than Josh. The experiment has failed, there is absolutely no doubt about it anymore!

In light of recent maroon events, the idea to put Hodgo into 5/8 is certainly gaining more and more merit, especially given how well Copley has accounted for the job, and if Josh doesn't want to go back to the wing, he can go rip it up in the ISC. Maranta will do just fine!

 

[Big Pete]

Re: ben barba/josh hoffman

And since this is a thread about Hoffman, I don't have any trouble with expressing my view that people scapegoat him and drag a lot of threads down with the same bile they've been producing since before a ball was even kicked this season...

Being fed-up with him derping it up at 5/8 is definitely a valid point, and hoping anyone (including the left corner post) takes his place isn't without merit either.

It loses it's meaning after the 127th post.

I do think that either Strasser or Paia'aua from what I've seen of them, would undoubtedly be doing a better job than Hoggman by now, had they had the same opportunity. I won't say anything about Nichols because I have not seen him play at all...

Man, this hypothetical world where you and CaptainHook hang out where Jake Granville is an amazing hooker and Manly would have beaten us must be an amazing place.

Let's forget all that and just base it on facts.

Now maybe the footage on the ISC or the Channel 9 games have failed to show this but from what I've seen of Strasser, he's been in poor form and has been pretty lucky to avoid FOGs at times. I just don't think he's a first grade player, let alone a first grade half.

Duncan is probably the best option at the moment, but it'd purely be short term and I have plenty question marks over him.

Physically, is he up to first grade?
Are his skills sharp enough yet?
Is he willing to get more involved? Can he actually get more involved?

etc.

For what it's worth, despite Hoffman clearly being a poor choice at half, I've yet to hear anybody really put forward a strong case on Paia'Aua's case, even Garry when he had nothing to lose shy'd away from the topic and the mail is he's on the outer.

Now, I believe more should have been done to promote him to the NRL and he should have played more ISC but I'm unsure about the Broncos relationship with the ISC. It seems to be a case of just giving them a taste for whatever reason.

In light of recent maroon events, the idea to put Hodgo into 5/8 is certainly gaining more and more merit, especially given how well Copley has accounted for the job, and if Josh doesn't want to go back to the wing, he can go rip it up in the ISC. Maranta will do just fine!

And that's the best option right there.

From what I've seen or as far as I know, neither Hoffman or the depth options are the best option at this point.

 

[Porthoz]

Re: ben barba/josh hoffman

Bile is the right word indeed and 127th isn't nearly enough. Get back to me when we're talking 4 figures...

You want fact?
Hoggman is the worst 5/8 in the NRL's history, period. I would have fucking McCrone ahead of him!

Strasser may have been in poor form, and may even have been lucky to avoid FOGS, but I still think he would do better than Josh at 5/8, because at least he can pass and kick. As long as they're physically able to handle it, the best of the (possibly crappy) lot would get the job as far as I'm concerned. It's really as simple as that!

Any comparison with Granville is pure nonsense, as Granville actually has a very good hooker covering him for the position. That cannot be said for our 5/8.
Yes, of course it's all hypothetical, but it's hardly rocket science to think that a player with some vision and playmaking talent, even if still raw, would come good (as in... way better than Hoggman), if persevered with in the same way as Griffin has done with Josh.

Simply put, I don't think it's easy to do worse than Hoggman in that position.
For what he does, we might as well put a backrower in there... he will run as hard, tackle better and will more than likely be capable of actually hitting a team mate with a pass.

Of course, we're now reaching the business end of the season, so there is no longer a point in giving a kid a shot when Milford is already lined-up for next season, which is why Hodges is the only realistic option at this point, unless someone like Strasser or Nichols really put their hand up. Even then, it would have to be very soon.

The least guilty of all this is Josh really. He actually believes this crap about being a capable playmaker, and Griffin is just enabling him...

 

[Big Pete]

Re: ben barba/josh hoffman

You want fact?

Yes because what your sprouting is just hyperbole.

Hopefully they'll go with Hodges. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Porthoz]

Re: ben barba/josh hoffman

I absolutely mean that. There is no exaggeration in saying that Hoffman is the worst 5/8 in the history of the NRL, at least as far as a regular choice is concerned. There have been worse, but they didn't last 3 games, much less over half a season.

I mean, we've had Tony Carroll playing there once. But then again... not sure which one is worse. (and yes, this part is hyperbole, the rest isn't)

 

[I bleed Maroon]

Re: ben barba/josh hoffman

Hey Porthoz....

Mitchell Pearce is still playing, last time I checked.

 

[Porthoz]

Re: ben barba/josh hoffman

Hey Porthoz....

Mitchell Pearce is still playing, last time I checked.

You almost embarrassed me, but Pearce is a halfback... phew! :laugh:

 

[broncos4life]

Re: ben barba/josh hoffman

Hey Porthoz....

Mitchell Pearce is still playing, last time I checked.

I hate MItchell Pierce but he is a much much better half than Hoffman. How is that a debate?

 

[rnabokov]

Re: ben barba/josh hoffman

For mine, at this point in the season, our structures such as they are are built around Hoffman at 5/8 and hard as it is to say, it's too late to move him. Hook won't anyway for his own reasons.

The key is Barba

Barba, both as FB, and getting more involved as 5/8. On those rather sporadic occasions he has done that - compensate for Hoffman as a real 2nd playmaker - we have looked bloody good. I remember his combination with Gillett in one game which was a gem. But for mine, he is too sporadic and really needs to get more involved, playmaking with Hunt.

As for Hoffman, his defence IMO redeems him IF Barba does what the structure and game plan require him to do - set up plays ... and kick.

Unless Barba gets more involved, our finals hopes will fade rapidly.

 

[FaceOfMutiny]

Re: ben barba/josh hoffman

Barba is probably struggling with the fact that he doesn't have a clear role. People want him hanging around waiting for a Corey Parker offload or a hole to run through but also set up on the left hand side as the 5/8th in attack and he can't be in 2 places at once.

I think once he is either 5/8th next year(if milford is going to FB) or has Milford at 5/8th we will see better things from Barba. The whole left side has suffered having Hoggman on that side of the field. I would rather have Reed switch to 5/8th in attack and Hoffman at left centre in attack than what we have now. Or even Alex Glenn at 5/8th in attack. Just anyone really.

 

[Alec]

Re: ben barba/josh hoffman

For mine, at this point in the season, our structures such as they are are built around Hoffman at 5/8 and hard as it is to say, it's too late to move him. Hook won't anyway for his own reasons.

The key is Barba

Barba, both as FB, and getting more involved as 5/8. On those rather sporadic occasions he has done that - compensate for Hoffman as a real 2nd playmaker - we have looked bloody good. I remember his combination with Gillett in one game which was a gem. But for mine, he is too sporadic and really needs to get more involved, playmaking with Hunt.

As for Hoffman, his defence IMO redeems him IF Barba does what the structure and game plan require him to do - set up plays ... and kick.

Unless Barba gets more involved, our finals hopes will fade rapidly.

Disagree with a lot of this.

Firstly, "structures being built around Hoffman". They are literally being being around him, he has no structure. You can literally put anyone else there and it wouldn't ruin the "structure".

Secondly, Barba as a 5/8th is kinda wasting him. He'll never be a particularly good one, his strength is his running game and support play, and he's not doing any of that. In fact Norman at fullback was setting up more with the ball than Barba.


If we aren't going to promote a half, our only option should be putting Hodges in the halves and having Barba mostly just play as support, like what he's best at.

 

[rnabokov]

Re: ben barba/josh hoffman

Alec, I am glad you disagree and you bring up good points - makes for a good debate.

What I meant is that the whole team is organized to play with Hoffman where is, playing the way he is and hoping Barba comes up into the line as he has sporadically, and when he did, great things happened ... mostly. When Barba hangs back, it's all on Hunt which is for mine, counter productive, and individual talent, including support play for offloads from Parker and Gillett.

I still believe our whole game plan and its variations, such as they are, are built around Hoffman at 5/8 playing the way he does, with the rest of team playing their game knowing Hoffman will play the way he does.

In my view, if Hoffman is moved, then there will need to be some major re-alignments in the game plan, and positional plays.

I remember when Hodges played at 5/8, the whole attack looked disjointed and Hodges just was, well, Hodges: he did his own thing mostly and the attack IMO was sloppy as a result.

As for Barba's strength being his running game, I see very little difference between him and Milford in this regard, although this year as we know - and I know you are on to this, Barba has been fattened up, lost speed and is still to find his old form. For mine, I see Milford as the better FB than Barba and Barba the better 5/8 although at the end of the day, either will do me in either position.

I keep coming back to the Manly game and a few others when Barba was for whatever reason, much more active than in at least half our other games and the form showed that clearly: when Barba is on, the whole team is switched on, much like when Hunt is switched on which again, is uneven this season because of ...

I still stick to my original view that our finals hopes this season rest on Barba becoming much more involved, and consistently so, as our 5/8, our 2nd key play maker.

Parker's form in Origin 3 is also a really good positive if he keeps it up. That game was the best I have ever seen him play, and if he offloads from now on as he did in SOO3, I can see us making a good play for the top 4, as long as Barba lifts and keeps lifting his game.

For mine, we are stuck with Hoffman like it or not, and I don't, which I have made abundantly clear like most of us this year.

I will say though thatHodges's performance in SOO3 made me change my mind somewhat as to his potential as a 5/8. That was a vastly different Hodges to the one I have seen so far this year. He actually almost looked like a centre cum 5/8.

I would not be opposed to him at 5/8 with Copley in his rightful place in the centres.

 

[_wwong]

Re: ben barba/josh hoffman

I would rather have Reed switch to 5/8th in attack and Hoffman at left centre in attack than what we have now. Or even Alex Glenn at 5/8th in attack. Just anyone really.

nope, no way. hoffman can not play any position other than wing. if he's at centre, the winger will never get the ball even if there's a massive overlap and nothing but grass in front of the winger to score a try. hoffman has got absolutely no ball playing skills at all. all he has are running and finishing skills. it's funny how hodges said these exact words in pre-season and everyone thought he was being too hard on hoff. well, now we're suffereing

 

[rnabokov]

Re: ben barba/josh hoffman

nope, no way. hoffman can not play any position other than wing. if he's at centre, the winger will never get the ball even if there's a massive overlap and nothing but grass in front of the winger to score a try. hoffman has got absolutely no ball playing skills at all. all he has are running and finishing skills. it's funny how hodges said these exact words in pre-season and everyone thought he was being too hard on hoff. well, now we're suffereing

I totally agree - Hoffman has only one position: wing although he would just make do as a reserve FB in an emergency