Kev and players cop it from former trainer

[Sproj]

So how is it we have the same coach and assistants who were throwing some of the best structured and ad-lib attack we've seen in years at opposition in 2023 at fault for no structure in 2024?

What's the common denominator - the players not listening. This isn't new either, it happened in the dreadful Seesbums years too. Clearly that guy could not connect with these idiots in the jersey. I'm not saying no fault lies with Kevvie either, all I'm saying is that to go from some pretty good structures in 2023 to whatever the heck this year was with the same personnel leads to finger pointing more at the players.

Even this year, we were 7-4 heading into origin, in a pretty good spot really and then it all completely and utterly fell apart - so what happened at that point in the season?

This is a good place to start.

 

[BroncsFan]

Only time Herbie passed the ball last year

I think those were the words that came out of my mouth when he threw it... except there were far more ***** and **** sakes throughout

 

[FACTHUNT]

I think the short drop outs were associated with the massive wind that was behind the panthers... even if he tried to flog it down field it might've gone nowhere anyway due to the wind.

I get that we weren't winning the short drop outs, but the intent is to put it up as a 50/50, hope to draw an error from your opposition or get the ball back yourself ... the whole time he was doing the short drop outs we were up by 10 or 4 pts so panthers were never taking the 2pts on offer if he did make an error.

Our goal line defence was also like top of the league and holding up to immense pressure all game, so it would make sense to conserve energy and keep confidence in the goal line defence, which got you there... but the young guys were tiring and I think losing some of that confidence seeing the deficit reduce. To avoid that Reynolds was trying to take it into his own hands, like driving that one to the 30m on the touchline, but the wind likely got a hold of it and took it too far.

The biggest issue and takeaway to me out of all that is that we spent the whole fucking year with no fucking plan on how to defuse the short drop outs... that's a coaching issue, but it's also the same old failure of this club to just not adapt to changes in modern game. The league was already moving to short drop outs in 2022 and everyone had moved to it in 2023, but here we are being this bullshit stoic dinosaur like "nah it's just a phase everyone will give up on it"... just like wrestling back in the mid-00's. This stupid fucking club keeps living off the 90's and trying to be this holier than thou and "we'll play the game like it's meant to be played" bullshit .... somehow thinking that what we did back then will work again at some point... and then it does for a season here and there 2015 and 2023, but it's not fucking sustainable and they forget that Sydney fucking hates them and will change shit to move away from that... yet they continue to sit on their hands and have no plan on how to evolve and change that.


In regards to Reynolds one of the biggest errors came when we made a break sometime in the second half and it may have been last tackle on panthers 30-40m. He had the ball with momentum and it all came down to what did Reynolds want to do with it, but instead he was caught like a deer in headlights and didn't know what to do.

He obviously had thoughts going through his head like box kick to the corner and force them to come out of their end... but they had no trouble doing that all night and our boys probably need a rest. Maybe a kick to the ingoal with Edwards scrambling, force a drop out and consolidate, except we haven't defused or won a short drop out all fucking year, so that's basically a turnover.

He probably thought about extending the play and get some early ball out to Staggs, which probably was the right call, but maybe he thought we're not getting many more chances in this game and we need to nail this one, so I've got to get it to him into a better position that he can't **** up, because it's our last chance.

Instead what he came up with was a short ball to maybe Piakura??

I can't recall if Piakura dropped it or if he was wrapped up straight away and handover... but there were a million different things that he could've done and that's where the team were looking for Reynolds to guide them.

I can't recall if the run by Piakura crowded him, but it was like Reynolds lost all thought process in that moment and the default was dump it to the short man and setup for the next play... except he'd forgotten we had no next play.

We probably didn't touch the ball again inside panthers half after that.

Yep. I remember that roaring wind hitting the stadium (and Penrith's back) at like 9pm and thinking that we were fucked from there. Cleary hit that 40/20 immediately after. Reyno knew that we needed possession back desperately.

Too many moments. The wild pass from Herbie is the killer for me, but I don't blame him. It all feels like a blur. Thankfully I missed so many moments live that I would have picked up and criticised if watching on the TV.

The trauma of walking out the stadium in 2015 and 2023 I would only wish on Melbourne fans.

 

[Wolfie]

So how is it we have the same coach and assistants who were throwing some of the best structured and ad-lib attack we've seen in years at opposition in 2023 at fault for no structure in 2024?

What's the common denominator - the players not listening. This isn't new either, it happened in the dreadful Seesbums years too. Clearly that guy could not connect with these idiots in the jersey. I'm not saying no fault lies with Kevvie either, all I'm saying is that to go from some pretty good structures in 2023 to whatever the heck this year was with the same personnel leads to finger pointing more at the players.

Even this year, we were 7-4 heading into origin, in a pretty good spot really and then it all completely and utterly fell apart - so what happened at that point in the season?

This is a good place to start.

I think they need to get to the bottom of these collapses. 2 pretty severe collapses in 3 years isnt a very good sign.

 

[Ghost of Vlansys]

I think they need to get to the bottom of these collapses. 2 pretty severe collapses in 3 years isnt a very good sign.

At least tigers fans don’t get to witness any severe collapses lucky bastards

 

[Bucking Beads]

I think it was Pete Badel talking about how we let Flegler go and how it put too much pressure on Payne Haas to be everything. Thought that was ridiculous tbh. Haas is on $1.3million. For that money he has to be able to be and do everything.

 

[1910]

Yeah was going to say isn't the sweating and carrying a towel around thing just gym etiquette...

Like if you're done with a machine or bench wipe the fucking thing down with a towel... like every person everywhere is required to do at a gym.

It's like a lot of that Chopper thing- it's well and good to make calls about working fulltime all day and training hard at night and no resources and no staff and we won comps like that but you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

When the Broncos first started, they had two full time staff- Canavan and Bennett.

That's not possible now, If you owned Winx would you train her like it's 1970? Or would you have the best vets in the world looking after her?

Go lay concrete all day with your broken hand isn't cutting it in 2024.

 

[theshed]

Don't put Arrow on that list, from everything I heard he is basically like Josh Maguire off the field.

Out of that list, Frizell, Gagai, Papalii, Welch and Safiti would improve our culture big time, playing wise questionable and some of those are just too expensive, I think for value, Gagai and Welch make alot of sense, you probably only get 2 years tops out of Gagai, Welch a bit more.

I’m not sure about Arrow off field.

Personally I think Gagai and Frizz would be massive for us. We have no second rowers with any experience at our club. I’d be more than happy to let Piakura and his 500k a season walk for Frizz, and I’ve been one of his biggest advocates.

 

[BroncsFan]

It's like a lot of that Chopper thing- it's well and good to make calls about working fulltime all day and training hard at night and no resources and no staff and we won comps like that but you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

When the Broncos first started, they had two full time staff- Canavan and Bennett.

That's not possible now, If you owned Winx would you train her like it's 1970? Or would you have the best vets in the world looking after her?

Go lay concrete all day with your broken hand isn't cutting it in 2024.

Yeah it sounded very much like old man yells at clouds.

The whole talk about what they did back in 90's isnt relevant anymore... if a club went back to that style they would be seen as complete amateur hour and be left in the dust.

I just dont understand why all the commentary about the Broncos is needing to get back to the old ways.

They havent worked since 2006 and they have only ever worked whenever Lockyer or Wayne are involved.

The club needs to evolve from that and move into the new millennium.

 

[1910]

Yeah it sounded very much like old man yells at clouds.

The whole talk about what they did back in 90's isnt relevant anymore... if a club went back to that style they would be seen as complete amateur hour and be left in the dust.

I just dont understand why all the commentary about the Broncos is needing to get back to the old ways.

They havent worked since 2006 and they have only ever worked whenever Lockyer or Wayne are involved.

The club needs to evolve from that and move into the new millennium.

I've called for an old school hard pre-season- I think there are things old school that can't be replaced but there are not too many.

Fitness is nearly it now.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I’m not sure about Arrow off field.

Personally I think Gagai and Frizz would be massive for us. We have no second rowers with any experience at our club. I’d be more than happy to let Piakura and his 500k a season walk for Frizz, and I’ve been one of his biggest advocates.

The problem is that we’ve given Piakura the $$ before he’s ready to be an 80 minute edge forward. Letting him go wouldn’t help us at all. We need to build depth in the position so they have to compete for it.

 

[Big Del]

I think there's a time and place for it, but defending for your life in a grand final with b2b premiers rolling downhill is not the place for it. How we could've done with a typical Bennett shut-it-down defensive performance in that last 20. Or even an experienced head to get in the ears of Walsh and co and just say guys tackle your arses off for 20mins and it's yours.

Nah , Reyno thought it was time for some trick shots ...

 

[theshed]

So how is it we have the same coach and assistants who were throwing some of the best structured and ad-lib attack we've seen in years at opposition in 2023 at fault for no structure in 2024?

What's the common denominator - the players not listening. This isn't new either, it happened in the dreadful Seesbums years too. Clearly that guy could not connect with these idiots in the jersey. I'm not saying no fault lies with Kevvie either, all I'm saying is that to go from some pretty good structures in 2023 to whatever the heck this year was with the same personnel leads to finger pointing more at the players.

Even this year, we were 7-4 heading into origin, in a pretty good spot really and then it all completely and utterly fell apart - so what happened at that point in the season?

This is a good place to start.

Ben Ikin left midway through the 2023 season, which means he wasn’t involved in recruitment or preseason planning for 2024.

Lee Briers decided to leave at some point during the 2024 season sighting personal reasons. As our attacking coach, could more have happened there?

Brett O’Farrell was our tackling and defence coach that moved on in Feb 2024.

Cartwright committed to a head coaching gig in May 24.

Corvo got moved on.

Chopper Burgess was there until the end of 2022.

In my opinion, our defence, tackling technique and fitness are the biggest issues and seeing that from the end of 2022 season to the end of 2023 season, those in charge of fitness, defence, tackling, and organising a root in brothel (metaphorically) all moved on, that is where my mind goes to when looking for explanations.

After 2021 season was a failure (i.e didn’t make finals) we had the review that saw guys like Kev’s brother forced out and Kev was surrounded by a legit great support cast. Between then and now, all of that supporting cast has been eroded with only Ballen, Scanlon and Dave Ballard still with us next season.

 

[Sproj]

Ben Ikin left midway through the 2023 season, which means he wasn’t involved in recruitment or preseason planning for 2024.

Lee Briers decided to leave at some point during the 2024 season sighting personal reasons. As our attacking coach, could more have happened there?

Brett O’Farrell was our tackling and defence coach that moved on in Feb 2024.

Cartwright committed to a head coaching gig in May 24.

Corvo got moved on.

Chopper Burgess was there until the end of 2022.

In my opinion, our defence, tackling technique and fitness are the biggest issues and seeing that from the end of 2022 season to the end of 2023 season, those in charge of fitness, defence, tackling, and organising a root in brothel (metaphorically) all moved on, that is where my mind goes to when looking for explanations.

After 2021 season was a failure (i.e didn’t make finals) we had the review that saw guys like Kev’s brother forced out and Kev was surrounded by a legit great support cast. Between then and now, all of that supporting cast has been eroded with only Ballen, Scanlon and Dave Ballard still with us next season.

Agreed, so to me what it shows is, if the right assistants are put in place, Kevvie can still be the head coach. I don't think he is a great tactician or technical coach but then, I don't think Bennett is either. You have to make sure you get the assistants right in this case otherwise it all goes to pot.

Therefore, in the absence of there being a standout head coach with that tactical side, so long as Ballin, Barrett and Teo are capable of providing that part of coaching, we should be well poised next year to bounce back while looking for that next marquee head coach. Essentially, buy ourselves as much time as needed until the guy we KNOW / have full confidence to become THE next supercoach is apparent.

 

[BroncsFan]

I've called for an old school hard pre-season- I think there are things old school that can't be replaced but there are not too many.

Fitness is nearly it now.

They 100% need the preseason fitness... I feel like the poor preseason was a huge factor into our poor season this year.

 

[theshed]

Agreed, so to me what it shows is, if the right assistants are put in place, Kevvie can still be the head coach. I don't think he is a great tactician or technical coach but then, I don't think Bennett is either. You have to make sure you get the assistants right in this case otherwise it all goes to pot.

Therefore, in the absence of there being a standout head coach with that tactical side, so long as Ballin, Barrett and Teo are capable of providing that part of coaching, we should be well poised next year to bounce back while looking for that next marquee head coach. Essentially, buy ourselves as much time as needed until the guy we KNOW / have full confidence to become THE next supercoach is apparent.

We agree on that one, Sproj. Kev with an elite support team around him is capable of being competitive.

Where we may diverge in view is that I don’t think Kev feels he needs the help or is unable to work with the support staff he needs.

We can speculate all day about whether guys like Briers or Ikin leaving had anything to do with Kev however the Ikin situation made it really clear that Kev wasn’t wanting his support. Burgess has now said the same about Ikin and others.

You see a mass turnover of support staff bookended by 2 cases of them openly saying they or others couldn’t work with Kev - imo where there is smoke there is fire.

Here is Adam talking about how OFarrell was our best asset. Now he’s gone, all of sudden our defence and tackling technique is back to 2021 standards. From what I can see, he isn’t doing anything else of significance right now so the better opportunity argument is a fragile one.

Reynolds names ‘Bumper’ secret weapon in Broncos tilt

Brisbane Broncos contact coach Brett “Bumper” O’Farrell is a figure skipper Adam Reynolds says is integral to the club’s success in the NRL this year.

www.smh.com.au

I’ve seen nothing from Teo’s coaching that tells me he will be of any great benefit as a defensive coach.

Look, Kev seemingly wants it his way or the high way. He needs full control so he can be the single point of accountability for both the successes and the losses. This isn’t a knock on him, as others have said Bellamy and Wayne would be similar. I can respect this approach, and it’s how I have operated in my own professional life. “One back to pat, one ass to kick” as they say. Kev has stripped back the supports around him so he can implement his vision, and live or die by it.

Like I said, I respect it but it also means that when everything starts and stops with you, and you immediately dissolve into an astronomical failure, you take your medicine.

 

[Sproj]

We agree on that one, Sproj. Kev with an elite support team around him is capable of being competitive.

Where we may diverge in view is that I don’t think Kev feels he needs the help or is unable to work with the support staff he needs.

We can speculate all day about whether guys like Briers or Ikin leaving had anything to do with Kev however the Ikin situation made it really clear that Kev wasn’t wanting his support. Burgess has now said the same about Ikin and others.

You see a mass turnover of support staff bookended by 2 cases of them openly saying they or others couldn’t work with Kev - imo where there is smoke there is fire.

Here is Adam talking about how OFarrell was our best asset. Now he’s gone, all of sudden our defence and tackling technique is back to 2021 standards. From what I can see, he isn’t doing anything else of significance right now so the better opportunity argument is a fragile one.

Reynolds names ‘Bumper’ secret weapon in Broncos tilt

Brisbane Broncos contact coach Brett “Bumper” O’Farrell is a figure skipper Adam Reynolds says is integral to the club’s success in the NRL this year.

www.smh.com.au

I’ve seen nothing from Teo’s coaching that tells me he will be of any great benefit as a defensive coach.

Look, Kev seemingly wants it his way or the high way. He needs full control so he can be the single point of accountability for both the successes and the losses. This isn’t a knock on him, as others have said Bellamy and Wayne would be similar. I can respect this approach, and it’s how I have operated in my own professional life. “One back to pat, one ass to kick” as they say. Kev has stripped back the supports around him so he can implement his vision, and live or die by it.

Like I said, I respect it but it also means that when everything starts and stops with you, and you immediately dissolve into an astronomical failure, you take your medicine.

The thing is, I'm not against replacing Kevvie, in fact I know we need to at some point, what I am wary of, is replacing him with the wrong person and we end up back here again almost immediately. We have to get the timing and more importantly, the decision, right.

 

[Midean]

So how is it we have the same coach and assistants who were throwing some of the best structured and ad-lib attack we've seen in years at opposition in 2023 at fault for no structure in 2024?

What's the common denominator - the players not listening. This isn't new either, it happened in the dreadful Seesbums years too. Clearly that guy could not connect with these idiots in the jersey. I'm not saying no fault lies with Kevvie either, all I'm saying is that to go from some pretty good structures in 2023 to whatever the heck this year was with the same personnel leads to finger pointing more at the players.

Even this year, we were 7-4 heading into origin, in a pretty good spot really and then it all completely and utterly fell apart - so what happened at that point in the season?

This is a good place to start.

Careful, people will hook into you for suggesting players need to shoulder more of the responsibility for this season.
There is no doubt about it, Kev should be scrutinized, but loads of folks calling for his job are placing no responsibility on the players whatsoever.