Kotoni Staggs Discussion

[BroncosFever]

Of course it's true. You can't demand elite money ( which Kotoni did with his contract negotiations ) and deliver mediocre performances. We have had plenty over the last few years who have failed to deliver their big contracts and I didn't see many trying to excuse their lack of performance.

Turpin cops it because his general play just isn't great and he is in a key position. If he was on the money Kotoni is on he would be getting it a whole lot worse than he is. And I didn't say they would get no criticism either, I just said it wouldn't be as bad.

Not sure what your background is in playing sport but I can tell you, your confidence is shot to bits when you suffer a debilitating injury, it takes time. He will get there, he's a good player.

It's been 2 games off the back of a only a few games where he was returning from an ACL injury. Look at Josh Mansour, ever since he did his ACL he hasn't ever wanted to compete aerially for the ball and that was years ago, it's not easy and I know it looks easy but it's not. He would have been instructed to ease his way back.

 

[WASSHHH]

Bounced around is a bit much-two games at second row.

So 2 more than Renouf.

The point is, Staggs is more brut strength than blistering speed.

I’m sure he is big enough, strong enough and fit enough to take a couple of runs from dummy half to help out his forwards.

 

[Wolfie]

Not sure what your background is in playing sport but I can tell you, your confidence is shot to bits when you suffer a debilitating injury, it takes time. He will get there, he's a good player.

It's been 2 games off the back of a only a few games where he was returning from an ACL injury. Look at Josh Mansour, ever since he did his ACL he hasn't ever wanted to compete aerially for the ball and that was years ago, it's not easy and I know it looks easy but it's not. He would have been instructed to ease his way back.

I've had way worse than an ACL and an MCL and made no difference to my confidence at all. Still played footy ( rather stupidly ) when i really shouldnt have. You just cant say your confidence is shot to bits when everyone responds differently. You may have got injured and it affected you, i dont know, i just know from my perspective my injuries didnt really knock my confidence one little bit.

Look at the difference between him and Carrigan. Both had an ACL injury. One went away, identified weak parts in his game, improved them and came back a better player with no loss of confidence whatsoever, the other hasnt come back anywhere near the same player. That could be for many reasons. Professionalism could be one. Kotoni certainly likes to party. Could be how they approached rehab, it could also be one player is a lot mentally stronger than the other.

I just dont know why people think certain players are beyond critisicm. If they play poorly, they get called out. If they play well, they get praised. Still doesnt change the fact when you are paid elite player money, you have to deliver. I said it earlier, if he's not ready to play in the NRL, play Brenko and let Kotoni get up to speed in ISC. We are better off having a fully reahbilitated, fit and firing Kotoni Staggs than a mediocre version of him. Hopefully we will see that this week. I just think we should get him right before we play him. We have depth for a reason.

 

[BroncosFever]

I've had way worse than an ACL and an MCL and made no difference to my confidence at all. Still played footy ( rather stupidly ) when i really shouldnt have. You just cant say your confidence is shot to bits when everyone responds differently. You may have got injured and it affected you, i dont know, i just know from my perspective my injuries didnt really knock my confidence one little bit.

Look at the difference between him and Carrigan. Both had an ACL injury. One went away, identified weak parts in his game, improved them and came back a better player with no loss of confidence whatsoever, the other hasnt come back anywhere near the same player. That could be for many reasons. Professionalism could be one. Kotoni certainly likes to party. Could be how they approached rehab, it could also be one player is a lot mentally stronger than the other.

I just dont know why people think certain players are beyond critisicm. If they play poorly, they get called out. If they play well, they get praised. Still doesnt change the fact when you are paid elite player money, you have to deliver. I said it earlier, if he's not ready to play in the NRL, play Brenko and let Kotoni get up to speed in ISC. We are better off having a fully reahbilitated, fit and firing Kotoni Staggs than a mediocre version of him. Hopefully we will see that this week. I just think we should get him right before we play him. We have depth for a reason.

Just on that comment about Carrigan coming back a completely different player, he wasn't that great himself against the Bulldogs, certainly a step backwards on what he delivered against Souths. Not a bad game by any stretch.

I don't think Staggs played that poorly, sure it would have been nice if he scored that try but it's not like he wasn't playing with energy or not having a go in defense. What we would have liked to have seen is more involvement with some carries out of dummy half but again, I think he has been asked to ease his way back. He's not going to come back and score tries like that freakish effort he dished up against the Dragons, it's going to take time but he's that good of a player that there's no harm putting him out there in our NRL team either. Would Lee do anything better? I don't think so. It's the same with Cobbo, he's clearly nowhere near the finished product but he's that good that having him out there is better than having someone like Pereira out there.

I just think if people are expecting him to deliver 750k performances every game right from the get go after returning from injury and all that, that's not a realistic expectation, it's not fair to expect him to do that. I don't care what they're paying him.

 

[Allo]

I thought the Pearl was from Murgon?

He is, but Cherbourg is only a few kms away from Murgon. I imagine there’s considerable overlap and daily movement between the two towns. Like how Cobbo was born in Cherbourg but went to Murgon State High

 

[Wolfie]

Just on that comment about Carrigan coming back a completely different player, he wasn't that great himself against the Bulldogs, certainly a step backwards on what he delivered against Souths. Not a bad game by any stretch.

I don't think Staggs played that poorly, sure it would have been nice if he scored that try but it's not like he wasn't playing with energy or not having a go in defense. What we would have liked to have seen is more involvement with some carries out of dummy half but again, I think he has been asked to ease his way back. He's not going to come back and score tries like that freakish effort he dished up against the Dragons, it's going to take time but he's that good of a player that there's no harm putting him out there in our NRL team either. Would Lee do anything better? I don't think so. It's the same with Cobbo, he's clearly nowhere near the finished product but he's that good that having him out there is better than having someone like Pereira out there.

I just think if people are expecting him to deliver 750k performances every game right from the get go after returning from injury and all that, that's not a realistic expectation, it's not fair to expect him to do that. I don't care what they're paying him.

Carrigan still played well and was still way more professional than Kotoni in his rehab and has actually worked on things that he identified need to be fixed. Kotoni twice in his rehab made a fool of himself out on the piss.

I think its excuse making for him tbh. You are only as good as your last game, and he has been poor. If he plays well against the Cows, he will get the praise and the first 2 games will be forgotten. While i dont think Lee is a better player than Staggs, i think he is a better player than the Staggs we have seen in the first 2 rounds though. Nothing wrong with taking your time with a player and letting him get back to 100% if you have the ability to do that. In this day and age, with the injuries he has had, if he isnt right then its mental or his preparation hasnt been right because they medically are as good as they get. The rehab plans they put in place are excellent if the players put in the work.

I'd question though why you think we shouldnt expect him to deliver. He has had a full pre season. The words came out of his own mouth that his body is good and having a full pre season has given him a heap of confidence. He just shouldnt be underdone. If he's not right then he is kidding himself and kidding his team mates and the club, and if he is right he could just have had 2 ordinary games and nothing more.

 

[Big Del]

He is, but Cherbourg is only a few kms away from Murgon. I imagine there’s considerable overlap and daily movement between the two towns. Like how Cobbo was born in Cherbourg but went to Murgon State High

Pretty sure she said she knew him from high school .
Knew I was a Broncos supporter and asked me about Steve . In those days he was just starting out . Dropping the ball and putting his head on the wrong side in tackles and getting knocked out .

Whoever retrained him how to tackle needs a medal . He rarely missed a tackle after that 1st season .

 

[Super Freak]

Staggs at 60-70% fitness is still a threat worth having in your team.

 

[Jedhead]

Pretty sure she said she knew him from high school .
Knew I was a Broncos supporter and asked me about Steve . In those days he was just starting out . Dropping the ball and putting his head on the wrong side in tackles and getting knocked out .

Whoever retrained him how to tackle needs a medal . He rarely missed a tackle after that 1st season .

Oh don't tell me Cobbs as a history of dropping the ball. Aaarggghhhh!

 

[Wolfie]

Staggs at 60-70% fitness is still a threat worth having in your team.

He must be well below that then at the moment. According to what we have been told, he should be fully fit.

 

[007]

Staggs needs to be used and played like Renouf. He has the speed and upper body strength. He is probably more solid in defence than Renouf was too.

No more discussion.

 

[Wolfie]

Staggs needs to be used and played like Renouf. He has the speed and upper body strength. He is probably more solid in defence than Renouf was too.

No more discussion.

I dont think we have got the best out of him yet. I'm pretty confident we can get a lot more out of him this year if we get him that early ball. I said this on the match thread on Sunday, what he probably needs to do as well is go looking for the ball a bit more like Hodgo. He wont be so one dimensional then and much harder for the opposition to contain.

 

[007]

I dont think we have got the best out of him yet. I'm pretty confident we can get a lot more out of him this year if we get him that early ball. I said this on the match thread on Sunday, what he probably needs to do as well is go looking for the ball a bit more like Hodgo. He wont be so one dimensional then and much harder for the opposition to contain.

I agree and disagree.

A strong point is his deception of speed. He needs depth and space to pull this off. Hooker runs will IMO be relying on brute strength (which he has tons of!). 25m in from touch, 20m back straighten up the line and feed him some good ball into the chest. Keep Cobbo on a string from him at 5-7m and will be points galore.

 

[Wolfie]

I agree and disagree.

A strong point is his deception of speed. He needs depth and space to pull this off. Hooker runs will IMO be relying on brute strength (which he has tons of!). 25m in from touch, 20m back straighten up the line and feed him some good ball into the chest. Keep Cobbo on a string from him at 5-7m and will be points galore.

I'd be surprised if he doesnt raise his game in the next few weeks. I'd be a bit concerned if he doesnt.

 

[Johnny92]

Carrigan still played well and was still way more professional than Kotoni in his rehab and has actually worked on things that he identified need to be fixed. Kotoni twice in his rehab made a fool of himself out on the piss.

I think its excuse making for him tbh. You are only as good as your last game, and he has been poor. If he plays well against the Cows, he will get the praise and the first 2 games will be forgotten. While i dont think Lee is a better player than Staggs, i think he is a better player than the Staggs we have seen in the first 2 rounds though. Nothing wrong with taking your time with a player and letting him get back to 100% if you have the ability to do that. In this day and age, with the injuries he has had, if he isnt right then its mental or his preparation hasnt been right because they medically are as good as they get. The rehab plans they put in place are excellent if the players put in the work.

I'd question though why you think we shouldnt expect him to deliver. He has had a full pre season. The words came out of his own mouth that his body is good and having a full pre season has given him a heap of confidence. He just shouldnt be underdone. If he's not right then he is kidding himself and kidding his team mates and the club, and if he is right he could just have had 2 ordinary games and nothing more.

I don't think it's a confidence thing at all he came back last season from his ACL injury which was the more serious one and It looked like he never had it.
He hasn't been bad bad he just hasn't been the super star he's paid to be if he was on the wage of Brenko or even Herbie you could accept that he's out there doing his job, making his tackles and waiting for the ball to come to him but it's those extras like helping the forwards, looking for the ball, getting in his halves ear to set him up for something that he should be doing.
Even if hes just floating around the middle looking for a offload at least he's looking for it.

 

[Sproj]

Just give him time, he’ll be fine.

 

[theshed]

Carrigan still played well and was still way more professional than Kotoni in his rehab and has actually worked on things that he identified need to be fixed. Kotoni twice in his rehab made a fool of himself out on the piss.

I think its excuse making for him tbh. You are only as good as your last game, and he has been poor. If he plays well against the Cows, he will get the praise and the first 2 games will be forgotten. While i dont think Lee is a better player than Staggs, i think he is a better player than the Staggs we have seen in the first 2 rounds though. Nothing wrong with taking your time with a player and letting him get back to 100% if you have the ability to do that. In this day and age, with the injuries he has had, if he isnt right then its mental or his preparation hasnt been right because they medically are as good as they get. The rehab plans they put in place are excellent if the players put in the work.

I'd question though why you think we shouldnt expect him to deliver. He has had a full pre season. The words came out of his own mouth that his body is good and having a full pre season has given him a heap of confidence. He just shouldnt be underdone. If he's not right then he is kidding himself and kidding his team mates and the club, and if he is right he could just have had 2 ordinary games and nothing more.

He’s been poor in attack. He seems to just be trying to pull of big plays rather than reliable work - which is probably partly due to wanting to help the team and forcing plays that aren’t on. Maybe partly ego or laziness not wanting to role his sleeves up.

There was also an obvious plan to focus on the other side of the field.

I don’t think he’s far off the mark. Once he starts catching the ball, or knowing when to take the safe option vs chances his arm he’ll come good. He could do a few more scoots but we don’t know if he’s been advised too. Herbie and Oates just cracked 200m each so it may not be his role.

As you said if he is still struggling by round 5 or 6 it’s probably worth worrying.

You’ve definitely taken most chances to criticise the guy. Not dismissing your opinion at all but you’ve seem to have a pretty obvious dislike of the guy.

 

[Wolfie]

He’s been poor in attack. He seems to just be trying to pull of big plays rather than reliable work - which is probably partly due to wanting to help the team and forcing plays that aren’t on. Maybe partly ego or laziness not wanting to role his sleeves up.

There was also an obvious plan to focus on the other side of the field.

I don’t think he’s far off the mark. Once he starts catching the ball, or knowing when to take the safe option vs chances his arm he’ll come good. He could do a few more scoots but we don’t know if he’s been advised too. Herbie and Oates just cracked 200m each so it may not be his role.

As you said if he is still struggling by round 5 or 6 it’s probably worth worrying.

You’ve definitely taken most chances to criticise the guy. Not dismissing your opinion at all but you’ve seem to have a pretty obvious dislike of the guy.

I've said in the past I don't like him as a person. Been saying that on here since 2018 but i did think he may have changed a little but he hasnt that much. Probably got a bit worse if anything. I don't feel I've been hypocritical or anything in my views of him. I think he is pretty full of himself and sleazy.

At the same time, I've been on his bandwagon as a player long before most on here had even really been aware of him. I just don't think he is a great bloke. Never really been impressed with him defensively even from when I first watched him but he's always been brilliant as a ball runner. I don't really think I've been any more critical of him than anyone else. I just think he has been poor so far this year. He is one of our strike players on big money. I thing we should expect big things from him same as anyone else comparable to him.