Melbourne Storm and the great celery hat debate

[Coxy]

I hate the Storm.
I hate the Bulldogs.

If all 34 players suffered spontaneous dual ACL snaps in the warm up I'd be stoked.

 

[broncos4life]

G suss...that is all ancient history ffs...they are there on their merits, against tremendous odds and done FAIRLY and squarely..they have been stringent observation all year and got there with some good players and a bunch of reservers,kids and rejects...this year is what it is all about, not what happened years ago ffs.....they are deserving of admiration and not having to listen to a bunch of neville neverwasbes banging on about what happened years ago. There is no guilt now and they are fully deserving of praise and admiration for doing what we could not do...what they did in the past has zero to do with this years effort...I did not think they could get there this year,I was utterly convinced of that in fact and they have proven me wrong just like they have proven this year that they are fitting grand finalists....

time to say well done even if you dislike them for what happened years ago...why, because that's exactly what the better man or woman does...

Personally I don't really give a damn about this anymore, but people might be more likely to say 'well done' if every over week one of the storm players weren't in the paper saying 'dems our pemierships' and 'we wonned dem we dont care wot no one finks'. If they would just put up their hand, say that even though they had no idea (yeah right) and cop that they did not fairly win those premierships, fans from teams that they knocked out of contention with a squad that should never have been able to be kept together, then a lot more people would get behind them IMO

As a bronco fan I know that I have found it really difficult over the years watching some of my favourite players have to leave the club due to the cap, and at the same time have to look at the storm and think "how in the blue hell can they keep all those guys'... anyway that's just my opinion

 

[Kimlo]

Personally I don't really give a damn about this anymore, but people might be more likely to say 'well done' if every over week one of the storm players weren't in the paper saying 'dems our pemierships' and 'we wonned dem we dont care wot no one finks'. If they would just put up their hand, say that even though they had no idea (yeah right) and cop that they did not fairly win those premierships, fans from teams that they knocked out of contention with a squad that should never have been able to be kept together, then a lot more people would get behind them IMO

As a bronco fan I know that I have found it really difficult over the years watching some of my favourite players have to leave the club due to the cap, and at the same time have to look at the storm and think "how in the blue hell can they keep all those guys'... anyway that's just my opinion

Exactly how I feel. We got knocked out of contention so many times by an illegal team, 3 times in a row actually. I just can't forgive that. And for them to put on the bullshit we did nothing wrong attitude just makes me hate them even more.

 

[Anonymous person]

As a bronco fan I know that I have found it really difficult over the years watching some of my favourite players have to leave the club due to the cap, and at the same time have to look at the storm and think "how in the blue hell can they keep all those guys'... anyway that's just my opinion

they havent really had star studded line ups though, just players that end up being able to command decent coin because of how they progressed once playing for the storm and the success that it brought.

apart from slater/cronk/smith/inglis, have they really had many other big name stars? they had folau, but he came to them as an unknown on nothing and left as soon as big dollars were thrown at him.

i have no problem with the players having a "we did nothing wrong" attitude because guess what? they did nothing wrong. if my employer got done for fraud or something like that would you expect me to take the blame? or would i be right in saying that i did nothing wrong?

 

[broncos4life]

they havent really had star studded line ups though, just players that end up being able to command decent coin because of how they progressed once playing for the storm and the success that it brought.

apart from slater/cronk/smith/inglis, have they really had many other big name stars? they had folau, but he came to them as an unknown on nothing and left as soon as big dollars were thrown at him.

i have no problem with the players having a "we did nothing wrong" attitude because guess what? they did nothing wrong. if my employer got done for fraud or something like that would you expect me to take the blame? or would i be right in saying that i did nothing wrong?

Yes in that scenario you would be right in saying you did nothing wrong. My gripe is with this over whelming sentiment from some players and previous officials, especially from Ribot that the should not have had the premierships removed as if they were denied some sort of justice.

Even if the players did nothing wrong themselves, they are still a representative of the storm and IMO when they are talking about the salary cap scandal they are a representative of the organisation and have to shoulder what the club did. To use your scenario of an employer being done for fraud, as an employee you are a representative of that organisation and if you were in a position that the media would question you would have to respond on behalf of the organisation. For example a large organisation gets done for fraud and you are questioned by the media, all the people that lost their money are not going to be to happy about you standing there with your arms crossed, saying I did nothing wrong.

 

[subsbligh]

What you have to realise is that the Storm management (Storm Financial - lol) committed what is tantamount to fraud, fully aware of the facts and the likely punishment if they were to get caught.

If my employer did that to me and I wasn't aware of them doing it, I would be gone in 60 seconds to another employer.

The problem is that if I knew about it, I'm probably getting paid 150% of what I'm actually worth on an open market and therefore less inclinded to leave.

 

[Coxy]

What you have to realise is that the Storm management (Storm Financial - lol) committed what is tantamount to fraud, fully aware of the facts and the likely punishment if they were to get caught.

If my employer did that to me and I wasn't aware of them doing it, I would be gone in 60 seconds to another employer.

^^^ This.

Especially if it was in order to pay my workmates more under the table to get around regulations.

 

[OXY-351]

they havent really had star studded line ups though, just players that end up being able to command decent coin because of how they progressed once playing for the storm and the success that it brought.

How is that different to a club such as the broncos though, who were forced to let a number of those type of players go?

 

[broncos4life]

What you have to realise is that the Storm management (Storm Financial - lol) committed what is tantamount to fraud, fully aware of the facts and the likely punishment if they were to get caught.

If my employer did that to me and I wasn't aware of them doing it, I would be gone in 60 seconds to another employer.

The problem is that if I knew about it, I'm probably getting paid 150% of what I'm actually worth on an open market and therefore less inclinded to leave.

Bingo!

 

[subsbligh]

I have mixed emotions about the Storm.

I don't feel as if the Broncos suffered a DISADVANTAGE when playing the Storm in the 2008 season. The Broncos did not wish to buy any of the Storm players (in fact, they rejected Cameron Smith and Billy Slater) so therefore were not deprived of the opportunity to boost their roster that year.

I don't think they would have been in the market for any of the Storm players at the end of 2007. We had Ennis, Wallace, Karmichael Hunt, Lockyer, Hodges, Kemp (Smith, Cronk, Slater, Matt Geyer, Inglis and Folau) equal to or better than their counterparts (at that time) at the Storm.

The Broncos certainly suffered a disadvantage by virtue of the salary cap rules by having to release Petero Civoneceva the previous year but also were victims of Bruno Cullen's decision in the following years to buy Israel Folau for 2009 (which ironically supports my argument in the first paragraph - we got every Storm player we ever wanted). In turn that lead to us culling Stagg, Boyd, Eastwood, Kemp, Moon. And then, given the salary cap (or moreover the limited market value of the NRL generally) we lost Israel Folau and Karmichael Hunt to big money offers there.

I hated the Storm during that period because we were so close to them but they always had our number and they played dirty and they always took a technical point wherever they could.

They deserved to be punished by the NRL for so flagrantly dishonest and showing absolutely no regard for the conditions on which they receive a NRL licence each year. We will only ever know half of the story and whether players knew or didn't know.

I wonder what was different about the 2010 audit to the 2006-2009 audits.

 

[broncos4life]

How is that different to a club such as the broncos though, who were forced to let a number of those type of players go?

It's absolutely no different, but apparently our hearts should bleed for the poor poor melbourne storm who just wanted to keep all their players :'(

 

[Anonymous person]

Yes in that scenario you would be right in saying you did nothing wrong. My gripe is with this over whelming sentiment from some players and previous officials, especially from Ribot that the should not have had the premierships removed as if they were denied some sort of justice.

i dont agree with taking away the premierships because you simply cant void an entire years competition and the premiers that we all watched win the grand final.

its not like the 100m sprints or something like that where if the winner gets disqualified after the fact you can just give second place the medal. noone had any effect on anyone else so in running you can do that. but rugby league is a team sport that runs for ~30 weeks and the team that cheated completely changed the landscape of the competition simply by winning/losing any matches. you cant say that the team that they beat in the grand final gets the premiership because you dont know if they wouldve been there had the cheaters not been, or if they wouldve beaten the team that wouldve been there if not for the cheaters.

what did happen though was they were in the grand final, and they won it. i saw it. you saw it. i dont accept that there are 2 years in the NRLs history now with no official premier. it wouldnt matter if it was manly/canterbury/new zealand/newcastle or the broncos that won and cheated - they still happened, and would still be the premiers in my and a lot of other peoples eyes. yes, the premiership is tainted and should forever have an asterisk next to it stating what happened, but they are still the premiers IMO.

In turn that lead to us culling Stagg, Boyd, Eastwood, Kemp, Moon.

we didnt cull boyd, he left to be with his man-crush. was never going to stay without bennett staying.

 

[broncos4life]

I have mixed emotions about the Storm.

I don't feel as if the Broncos suffered a DISADVANTAGE when playing the Storm in the 2008 season. The Broncos did not wish to buy any of the Storm players (in fact, they rejected Cameron Smith and Billy Slater) so therefore were not deprived of the opportunity to boost their roster that year.

I don't think they would have been in the market for any of the Storm players at the end of 2007. We had Ennis, Wallace, Karmichael Hunt, Lockyer, Hodges, Kemp (Smith, Cronk, Slater, Matt Geyer, Inglis and Folau) equal to or better than their counterparts (at that time) at the Storm.

The Broncos certainly suffered a disadvantage by virtue of the salary cap rules by having to release Petero Civoneceva the previous year but also were victims of Bruno Cullen's decision in the following years to buy Israel Folau for 2009 (which ironically supports my argument in the first paragraph - we got every Storm player we ever wanted). In turn that lead to us culling Stagg, Boyd, Eastwood, Kemp, Moon. And then, given the salary cap (or moreover the limited market value of the NRL generally) we lost Israel Folau and Karmichael Hunt to big money offers there.

I hated the Storm during that period because we were so close to them but they always had our number and they played dirty and they always took a technical point wherever they could.

They deserved to be punished by the NRL for so flagrantly dishonest and showing absolutely no regard for the conditions on which they receive a NRL licence each year. We will only ever know half of the story and whether players knew or didn't know.

I wonder what was different about the 2010 audit to the 2006-2009 audits.

The difference was that by 2010 it was so bloody obvious to every person with half a brain that this squad could not be under the cap, that schubert could no longer turn a blind eye.

 

[broncos4life]

i dont agree with taking away the premierships because you simply cant void an entire years competition and the premiers that we all watched win the grand final.

its not like the 100m sprints or something like that where if the winner gets disqualified after the fact you can just give second place the medal. noone had any effect on anyone else so in running you can do that. but rugby league is a team sport that runs for ~30 weeks and the team that cheated completely changed the landscape of the competition simply by winning/losing any matches. you cant say that the team that they beat in the grand final gets the premiership because you dont know if they wouldve been there had the cheaters not been, or if they wouldve beaten the team that wouldve been there if not for the cheaters.

what did happen though was they were in the grand final, and they won it. i saw it. you saw it. i dont accept that there are 2 years in the NRLs history now with no official premier. it wouldnt matter if it was manly/canterbury/new zealand/newcastle or the broncos that won and cheated - they still happened, and would still be the premiers in my and a lot of other peoples eyes. yes, the premiership is tainted and should forever have an asterisk next to it stating what happened, but they are still the premiers IMO.



we didnt cull boyd, he left to be with his man-crush. was never going to stay without bennett staying.

Just so I'm clear, you think that the punishment for systematic rorting and fraud that bought our game into disrepute should be 10 minutes in the naughty corner and no tv for a week?

 

[m1c]

Just so I can accept the point of view of a few pro Stomers on here - Are you fellas able to give a dot point list of the advantages that come with salary cap rorting? Just so I know that you know that there is some advantage in it...

 

[Anonymous person]

Just so I'm clear, you think that the punishment for systematic rorting and fraud that bought our game into disrepute should be 10 minutes in the naughty corner and no tv for a week?

just so im clear, you think that the punishment for systematic rorting and fraud by the club officials should be death by stoning and everyones families sent to jail?

if youre allowed to make absurd claims then so am i. i think the punishment should be everyone involved is fired and facing legal charges, have all contracts torn up and they have to sign players at an agreed by the NRL market value and not a cent no less, take away any and all prize money from all the years where the rorting occurred, and have a big f$%^-off fine. the premierships should stand though, as they happened and everyone saw them happen. rewriting history to that extent shouldnt happen in a team sport IMO.

 

[subsbligh]

i think the punishment should be everyone involved is fired and facing legal charges, have all contracts torn up and they have to sign players at an agreed by the NRL market value and not a cent no less, take away any and all prize money from all the years where the rorting occurred, and have a big f$%^-off fine. the premierships should stand though, as they happened and everyone saw them happen. rewriting history to that extent shouldnt happen in a team sport IMO.

The breaches were so bad that the only more harsh penalty would have been to strip them of their licence for the 2010 season.

The effectiveness of the penalty in stripping the premierships is absurd. The horse had already bolted, the damage was done

 

[Kaz]

just so im clear, you think that the punishment for systematic rorting and fraud by the club officials should be death by stoning and everyones families sent to jail?

:thumbup1:


Finally we are agreeing on something.