National Anthem dumped from State of Origin.

[Nashy]

Yeah that’s where you would have some of the top elders come together and decide. Unfortunately a lot of the respect for the elders has gone out the window as more and more indigenous people are westernised

I assume it's looked at in a similar way to religion maybe?

 

[The True King]

I'm not prepared to go to a vote of the people if a clear "This is what we want" isn't there. What's the point, it'll just be another in a long list of attempts that have done nothing.

So basically there would need to be an alternative anthem?

We need to establish if the majority are happy with what we currently have. If they aren't then we address what the change looks like by consulting relevant stakeholders.
Having a select few come up with an alternative that only represents a minority would be far less likely to get up in a vote, imo.

I think no matter the issue there are going to be a vocal few that will seek to divide people.

 

[roo-ted]

I assume it's looked at in a similar way to religion maybe?

Not really, it was similar to how the Maoris treat their elders. Everything use to go through them and trouble makers use to get sorted out by the community. These days everyone is basically the same as the average Aussie, and the focus is on themselves rather then that community focus.
The old way with the elders was really positive in my opinion it gave people boundaries

 

[Nashy]

Not really, it was similar to how the Maoris treat their elders. Everything use to go through them and trouble makers use to get sorted out by the community. These days everyone is basically the same as the average Aussie, and the focus is on themselves rather then that community focus.
The old way with the elders was really positive in my opinion it gave people boundaries

How would you fix that? Is there actually a way to get that back?

 

[Nashy]

So basically there would need to be an alternative anthem?

We need to establish if the majority are happy with what we currently have. If they aren't then we address what the change looks like by consulting relevant stakeholders.
Having a select few come up with an alternative that only represents a minority would be far less likely to get up in a vote, imo.

I think no matter the issue there are going to be a vocal few that will seek to divide people.

That will always be the way. But it doesn't take away from the fact that the argument on the other side, at least to how I view it, is that there is more complaining, than actual moving to make positive changes to look at actually moving on from a past that not a single one of us had anything to do with.

 

[roo-ted]

How would you fix that? Is there actually a way to get that back?

Just comes down to strong leadership. We need some indigenous people to get on the right platform and start calling the shots.
I’d like to see some highly educated indigenous people in parliament that aren’t going to sell out and that would receive the spot light by the media.
They would have to be smart about how they came at it though, the rest of the country isn’t going to take kindy to someone casting blame on the public and getting over emotional.

A lot of the issues can pretty much be traced back to the family unit, once that is running smoothly and the next generation are getting pushed to succeed the rest of it will take take of its self. My kids are young at the moment but I’m going to pretty much be a tiger parent once they start school lol

 

[1910]

I wonder if a referendum would solve the problem.

Surely whatever the majority of the population vote for would be a decent enough mandate to change/keep it. I personally feel as if there's going to be an aggrieved and vocal minority regardless of the outcome but at some point there has to be an acceptable compromise. We all either move on together or let a small few continue to divide us.

Referendums can only be for constitutional matters. You'd have to have a plebiscite which isn't binding.

 

[The True King]

Referendums can only be for constitutional matters. You'd have to have a plebiscite which isn't binding.

Do that then, it doesn't need to be binding. It's simply a sense check to see if people are actually unhappy with it or if the vocal few are dominating the conversation.

Far better to gauge the feeling on something rather than instinctively change it and face backlash from 90% of the population.

 

[Morkel]

I have mixed feelings on this.

Renaming Australia Day "Invasion Day" is grossly ignoring history around the world. Why do countries (outside of Island countries like Aus & NZ) exist? Because someone declared ownership of it, others invaded and took it for themselves, annexed others, if we want to apologise for anyone forcibly taking land off others, we need to disband all country borders and start from scratch. Which is silly.

But on the other hand, while there are certainly instances in the past of the victorious party slaughtering and even enslaving the losing party, Indigenous Australians were genuinely treated as sub-human, as savage animals. I have no idea how that would feel, but I can understand why that would be a hurt that would imbedded in their culture. I have no answer for how to make up for that.

 

[Nashy]

I have mixed feelings on this.

Renaming Australia Day "Invasion Day" is grossly ignoring history around the world. Why do countries (outside of Island countries like Aus & NZ) exist? Because someone declared ownership of it, others invaded and took it for themselves, annexed others, if we want to apologise for anyone forcibly taking land off others, we need to disband all country borders and start from scratch. Which is silly.

But on the other hand, while there are certainly instances in the past of the victorious party slaughtering and even enslaving the losing party, Indigenous Australians were genuinely treated as sub-human, as savage animals. I have no idea how that would feel, but I can understand why that would be a hurt that would imbedded in their culture. I have no answer for how to make up for that.

This seems to be the issue on both sides.

 

[Viti]

I have mixed feelings on this.

Renaming Australia Day "Invasion Day" is grossly ignoring history around the world. Why do countries (outside of Island countries like Aus & NZ) exist? Because someone declared ownership of it, others invaded and took it for themselves, annexed others, if we want to apologise for anyone forcibly taking land off others, we need to disband all country borders and start from scratch. Which is silly.

But on the other hand, while there are certainly instances in the past of the victorious party slaughtering and even enslaving the losing party, Indigenous Australians were genuinely treated as sub-human, as savage animals. I have no idea how that would feel, but I can understand why that would be a hurt that would imbedded in their culture. I have no answer for how to make up for that.

This may sound ignorant and I don’t mean it to be but why do we need to make up for the sins of the past?

 

[Morkel]

This may sound ignorant and I don’t mean it to be but why do we need to make up for the sins of the past?

Because the attitude still prevails.

 

[Viti]

Because the attitude still prevails.

Oh I agree, but that’s today’s problem.

I believe we should be acknowledging the crimes of the past and working to a level playing field for everyone rather than making up for the past.

 

[Midean]

Oh I agree, but that’s today’s problem.

I believe we should be acknowledging the crimes of the past and working to a level playing field for everyone rather than making up for the past.

I agree.

The past cannot be changed, we can learn from it, and never repeat the atrocities that occurred.
We can respectfully honor the indigenous people who lost lives, or were stolen from their parents and devote a national day to them so it is never forgotten.

However, i do not believe people should be held accountable today for what occurred in the past, not unless we hold all past aggressors to the same standard.
I am also of the opinion that what happened in Australia's early history, as horrible as it was, was very much the way the world operated at that period in time. It doesnt make it right, but it was how the world worked back then.
As i said in an earlier post, Australia was never, ever going to remain isolated from the world and under the control of any one people.
Who knows what this country would look like had the Spanish landed here first, as history has shown us they tended to completely eradicate the indigenous people of the lands they invaded/conquered.

The spread of mankind was always going to reach Australian shores one way or another, and there are best and worst case scenarios that could have played out, the English colonizing Australia was a brutal and terrible thing, but at the same time, an inevitable thing that i doubt had any peaceful possible outcome, as is the norm when any country invades another.

 

[mrslong]

I thought it interesting that most of the players sung along last night with pride. Especially the debutants. I think even Gutho looked teary.

 

[roo-ted]

Oh I agree, but that’s today’s problem.

I believe we should be acknowledging the crimes of the past and working to a level playing field for everyone rather than making up for the past.

There are things that are still today’s problems though that haven’t been addressed such as the anthem just to name one of many.

What do you mean by making up for the past ? What does that look like

 

[Viti]

There are things that are still today’s problems though that haven’t been addressed such as the anthem just to name one of many.

What do you mean by making up for the past ? What does that look like

I agree with you on your first point.

I think it was more the phrasing of making up for the past for me, I don’t know what that looks like but I think we should be acknowledging the past and moving forward together

 

[Finbar]

The old way with the elders was really positive in my opinion it gave people boundaries

My uncle has scars all over his body from being cut open and the wounds then packed with sand by his elders. This was part of his initiation ceremony into being a man and there are still horrible circumcision rituals going on in remote communities up north with teenagers being hospitalised when it doesn't all go smoothly. It certainly develops boundaries although I wouldn't say they are good ones.

I find Jacinta Nampijinpa Price to be one of the more reasonable voices with regards to Aboriginal issues as she has been close to and witnessed first hand what is going on in some of these communities (and within her only family) and talks about the issues more directly rather than focusing on symbolic gestures that she doesn't consider to be so productive, especially for the most marginalised and remote communities.