On Current Form not including Origin or Injuries what is your best 17?

[Mustafur]

For me it's(post round 12 assuming all are fit):

1. Walsh
2. Oates
3. Arthars
4. Farnworth
5. Cobbo
6. Mam
7. Reynolds
8. Jensen
9. Walters
10.Haas
11. Capewell
12. Riki
13. Carrigan

14. Paix
15. Flegler
16. Hethrington
17. Taupau

Notes:
Honestly think Staggs needs to be dropped for Arthars, I thought it was insane earlier in the year, but he has not shown any of the attack this year he has been known for in past seasons, and he is 50/50 player on the defensive jams he goes hard on and when he misses it's almost always a try against us, I look at Arthars and even in a position on left wing which he is a right sided player naturally he just gives everything he has, nearly no errors in him and he just has the ticker in him, I think he needs to put on about 5kg to go another level so his tough runs have more bite, but I fucking love how he is playing, his intent has to be rewarded, his best position is right centre and he should be there for me.

If we had a better edge option at this point I think Marty gets dropped, but he played well on the shorter stints and our edge options at the moment are weak, I don't think Capewell is a 80 min edge anymore and we need to balance that, going by last game I think Kobe was doing it at the end.

 

[McHunt]

Same as your team, but I'm picking Staggs. You know: the same team that took us to the top of the table.

 

[Mustafur]

Same as your team, but I'm picking Staggs. You know: the same team that took us to the top of the table.

I have been a big backer of him but what has happened with his attack?

if he can't show that, something is off.

Either he has some injury or there is a mentality problem.

I have always been against those that think he should be dropped before but his strongest point in his game is missing this year and if it's not there I would rather a player who just has more ticker even if they have less natural ability like Arthars.

Arthars is such a solid player in all areas, and when he played in the trials this year at right centre he was our best player, because his right carry came into play with the offload/flick.

 

[McHunt]

I have been a big backer of him but what has happened with his attack?

if he can't show that, something is off.

Either he has some injury or there is a mentality problem.

I have always been against those that think he should be dropped before but his strongest point in his game is missing this year and if it's not there I would rather a player who just has more ticker even if they have less natural ability like Arthars.

Arthars is such a solid player in all areas, and when he played in the trials this year at right centre he was our best player, because his right carry came into play with the offload/flick.

I'm pretty happy with the entire team at the moment. Our spine was substantially weaker/greener than Penrith's tonight but even so, I think we put in a finals worthy performance.

I have concerns, sure, but in contrast to previous seasons, we're seeing the same team each week. And they're starting to look like a team. The least of our concerns is effort. Even our weakest look like they're giving their all. No one gets dropped for bludging.

Breaking it down:

1. Walsh: future of club. Electric, plucky, and a little too error prone now. But enjoy this raw phase while you can. He won't be this fast forever. But he will be the Australian fullback. No concern.
2. Oates: in my team until he's not. Plenty of pressure from below. No concern.
3. Staggs: could do more with the ball, but everything else, superb. No concern.
4. Herbie: a hog but makes up for it through workload. Reasonable concern replacing him.
5. Cobbo: gifted, but bumbling. Some concern about commitment and attention.
6. Mam: work in progress. Building a premiership worthy combo with Walsh. Unconvincing game manager, especially kicking. Still green, so no concern yet.
7. Reynolds: key to our success. Must play for us to win. Major succession concern.
8. Jensen: good enough, but should be worried about who's coming up through the grades. No concern.
9. Billy: serviceable, but lacks footie smarts, which matters if Reynolds is out. Widely held concern about this position, but not a crisis.
10. Haas: has lifted another notch this season. Next notch is sending the opposition off limping. Only concern is securing him forever.
11. Capewell: one of the best support players in the comp. Plays more like a centre than a second row. Possibly better suited to the bench. Some concern he might be getting past his prime.
12. Riki: coming into his own this season. No concern.
13. Patty: future captain. No concern.

14. Paix: other half of the hooking tag team. Both will do, but neither are outstanding. Neither offer much spark off the bench. One will have to go. And it's likely to be Cory. Widespread concern, but not as much as in the preseason.
15. Flegler: good enough, sometimes great. Better off the bench. Big concern replacing him.
16. Hetherington: good enough. Should start feeling pressure from lower grades. No concern.
17. Taupau: probably good enough. No concern, but might not have won an extension yet.

18. Arthars: excellent injury cover. No concern.
19. Madden: too soon to tell. But looks like Croft MK II. Major concern if he's earmarked as Reynold's successor.

Backs: depth is fabulous.
Spine: depth is weak.
Forwards: depth is unknown, but some promising youngsters coming through.

TL;DR: I think we can make top 4 with the cattle on hand, but realistically expecting to last the entire season with the squad intact is wishful thinking. Then we're in trouble. Our spine relies on Billy/Paix shovelling towards our brilliant backs, but falls apart without Reynolds, Mam or Walsh. Dummy half isn't an immediate problem for us, but it's not our strength, and it's exposed when we lose one of our spine.

Next year we need a half behind Reynolds who's more convincing than Madden is now, more game management skill from our dummy half and more spark from our bench utility. Or at least 2 of those 3.

 

[Mustafur]

I'm pretty happy with the entire team at the moment. Our spine was substantially weaker/greener than Penrith's tonight but even so, I think we put in a finals worthy performance.

I have concerns, sure, but in contrast to previous seasons, we're seeing the same team each week. And they're starting to look like a team. The least of our concerns is effort. Even our weakest look like they're giving their all. No one gets dropped for bludging.

Breaking it down:

1. Walsh: future of club. Electric, plucky, and a little too error prone now. But enjoy this raw phase while you can. He won't be this fast forever. But he will be the Australian fullback. No concern.
2. Oates: in my team until he's not. Plenty of pressure from below. No concern.
3. Staggs: could do more with the ball, but everything else, superb. No concern.
4. Herbie: a hog but makes up for it through workload. Reasonable concern replacing him.
5. Cobbo: gifted, but bumbling. Some concern about commitment and attention.
6. Mam: work in progress. Building a premiership worthy combo with Walsh. Unconvincing game manager, especially kicking. Still green, so no concern yet.
7. Reynolds: key to our success. Must play for us to win. Major succession concern.
8. Jensen: good enough, but should be worried about who's coming up through the grades. No concern.
9. Billy: serviceable, but lacks footie smarts, which matters if Reynolds is out. Widely held concern about this position, but not a crisis.
10. Haas: has lifted another notch this season. Next notch is sending the opposition off limping. Only concern is securing him forever.
11. Capewell: one of the best support players in the comp. Plays more like a centre than a second row. Possibly better suited to the bench. Some concern he might be getting past his prime.
12. Riki: coming into his own this season. No concern.
13. Patty: future captain. No concern.

14. Paix: other half of the hooking tag team. Both will do, but neither are outstanding. Neither offer much spark off the bench. One will have to go. And it's likely to be Cory. Widespread concern, but not as much as in the preseason.
15. Flegler: good enough, sometimes great. Better off the bench. Big concern replacing him.
16. Hetherington: good enough. Should start feeling pressure from lower grades. No concern.
17. Taupau: probably good enough. No concern, but might not have won an extension yet.

18. Arthars: excellent injury cover. No concern.
19. Madden: too soon to tell. But looks like Croft MK II. Major concern if he's earmarked as Reynold's successor.

Backs: depth is fabulous.
Spine: depth is weak.
Forwards: depth is unknown, but some promising youngsters coming through.

TL;DR: I think we can make top 4 with the cattle on hand, but realistically expecting to last the entire season with the squad intact is wishful thinking. Then we're in trouble. Our spine relies on Billy/Paix shovelling towards our brilliant backs, but falls apart without Reynolds, Mam or Walsh. Dummy half isn't an immediate problem for us, but it's not our strength, and it's exposed when we lose one of our spine.

Next year we need a half behind Reynolds who's more convincing than Madden is now, more game management skill from our dummy half and more spark from our bench utility. Or at least 2 of those 3.

I think it's more clear to me than ever that Sailor is the 6 and 1 option when first choice is out, Madden is much better at 7 than I thought as backup but the coaching staff need to give him main priority for kicking which I think has been their choice why it hasn't been.

I remember clearly how dangerous Tristian was when at Dragons at 6 and 1 before his false accusation ruined his southern experience, in the trials he showed that even more, that try he setup was one of the best kicks I have ever seen, trials or not.

 

[Mister Wright]

It is the team that ran out last night with Oates in for Arthars & Reynolds in for Madden.

 

[theshed]

I know it’s not what you asked but

1. Manu
2. Holmes
3. Mitchell
4. Graham
5. Tualungi
6. Munster
7. Cleary
8. Haas
9. Grant
10. Fisher-Harris
11. Murray
12. Nikora
13. Carrigan

14. Hunt
15. NAS
16. Funua-Blake
17. Hynes

 

[Mr Fourex]

but?

but what

What is that team you've named and its relevance to

anything at all?

 

[Mr Fourex]

It is the team that ran out last night with Oates in for Arthars & Reynolds in for Madden.

Agreed...I don't see the need for Staggs to be dropped and certainly not for Arthars.

Staggs involvement has been high. His attacking opportunities will come.

 

[Accept]

You come up with this header at 3.30 AM? Are you an insomniac? Agree mostly with your side. Replacing Staggs with Arthars is lunacy as the two don't even compare talent wise. Kotoni cops a lot of scorn on here but I actually think that he's been quite good this year. His defensive game has improved ten fold and he remains a very fast and strong runner. The fact that there are less gaps to run through for him maybe speaks volumes for his opposition. I think that he is maturing into a solid all round player.

It might be time to desist with the Paix experiment. I think it's pretty clear that he isn't going to be a long term option. It's time to inject the likes of Smoothy or even Mozer and it could address their glaring weakness in the spine. Very few teams win the premiership when their dummy half options are marginal first graders. Chuck in an effective #9 in this squad and they reach a new dimension and are almost unbeatable.

 

[Mustafur]

You come up with this header at 3.30 AM? Are you an insomniac?

Yes, due to my work hours my awake hours are basically opposite of a normal human lol.

 

[Sproj]

Staggs is trying his butt off, he has just lost strength for some reason, it would be that his shoulder issue from last year will take time to fix and get that strength back. I am backing him to do it, he will come good.

I think there is an argument that this should be trialled at some point:
1. Walsh
2. Oates
3. Staggs
4. Farnworth
5. Cobbo
6. Mam
7. Reynolds
8. Carrigan
9. Walters
10. Haas
11. Capewell
12. Riki
13. Hetherington

14. Paix
15. Flegler
16. Jensen/Taupau
17. Taupau/Piakura

I just really liked what I saw with how Kobe stiffened up the middle when he came on last night.

 

[Foordy]

Our best 17 requires only 2 changes to the team that ran out last night.

Oates in for Arthars. Arthars has done an admirable job filling in for Oates and would be a starter in many teams ... but Oates just adds so much value to this side.

Reynolds comes in for Madden.

and I would probably move Flegs back to the bench to add some impact when we rest Haas/Carrigan

 

[Wolfie]

Agreed...I don't see the need for Staggs to be dropped and certainly not for Arthars.

Staggs involvement has been high. His attacking opportunities will come.

I think Kotoni was very poor last night, and i think his form has been declining but i dont think Jesse would be an improvement.

 

[Mr Fourex]

I think Kotoni was very poor last night, and i think his form has been declining but i dont think Jesse would be an improvement.

Very poor is because you have a personal grudge against him.....

He was very involved last night. Things didn't always go his way. He was impotent in attack.
I thought he defended strongly.
He made some errors in judgement.

 

[Wolfie]

Very poor is because you have a personal grudge against him.....

He was very involved last night. Things didn't always go his way. He was impotent in attack.
I thought he defended strongly.
He made some errors in judgement.

I was being generous. He was abysmal.

 

[Mr Fourex]

I was being generous. He was abysmal.

Thats just not true.

 

[Wolfie]

Thats just not true.

I honestly think last night was his worst game all year. He's been pretty solid most of the year. His attack hasnt been as good as it can be but defensively i think he's been fine.

The one thing i really have noticed and i mentioned it last night is he seems to be lacking strength. He's just not powering through people anymore. He was getting driven back like Tesi Niu last night which is very unusual for him.