Origin III: Player ratings

[anzac7]

Oh excuse me, I didn't notice Taylor playing... He must have been really good, or at least much better than Gillett, right? :rolleyes:

What I said re Gillett vs. Taylor is that "AT THEIR BEST", I prefer Gillett to Taylor, and that to me Taylor is NOT Origin material. I gave reasons for that stance, which people may or may not agree with. I however stand by that opinion, I repeat... Opinion!

I also said in the game thread that Gillett needs to improve a lot to continue to justify his Maroon jumper, but it's probably handy to ignore that.

Funny thing when Jeba had a swipe about Petero's performance, the reaction from AP was suddenly totally opposed to this...

As for AP, I have no intention to fuel his pettiness and disregard for other people's opinions.

It was a difference of opinions, yes. But it was going around in circles and I said the only way to know for sure is see Gillette's performance - because we have seen Taylor's over a few years and have something to compare to.

The same could be said for Taylor, his form needs to improve to have a maroons jumper - anyone could use that excuse every day of the week - pretty weak one. I think most people would just admit Taylor would have been a better option for game 3 than Gillette, at least the supporters I talked to all have.

And finally, I think you are wrong once more, because Gillette at his best so far would not have been able to pull off the 80 minute performance of Taylor in the Souths vs Panthers game last weekend.

(P.S I am a big fan of Gillette, first game I saw him play in NRL I was telling eveyone I know about how good he will be, I even felt a bit of compensation for Taylor leaving the broncs ... but I can still call it as it is..

 

[dukey]

Luke Lewis should be rated higher. As soon as he came on he was in everything. At one point he made three tackles in a row and shortly after put a winger into space with a strong run and a perfect pass. Why he was left on the bench until the second half is beyond me.

Next year I'd like to see him and T-Rex brought on together at around the 25-minute mark in each half. The Maroons were clearly scared of Williams and shut him down in numbers; I think Lewis is the perfect candidate to take advantage of that perceived threat.

 

[anzac7]

Luke Lewis should be rated higher. As soon as he came on he was in everything. At one point he made three tackles in a row and shortly after put a winger into space with a strong run and a perfect pass. Why he was left on the bench until the second half is beyond me.

Next year I'd like to see him and T-Rex brought on together at around the 25-minute mark in each half. The Maroons were clearly scared of Williams and shut him down in numbers; I think Lewis is the perfect candidate to take advantage of that perceived threat.

That's exactly right for NSW (though QLD shut T-Rex down very well all night) - perhaps Lewis has some secret hate club like Hindemarsh?

 

[Coxy]

Luke Lewis is one of the only blues who really worries me whenever he comes on. He makes things happen

 

[rnabokov]

On the Gillett & Taylor question for Game 3, I believe it's possible Gillett got the nod because of his perceived agility in defence over Taylor. I felt Mal might have been a bit worried by Taylor's lateral speed and general defence in the decider. In any case, I didn't think Gillett would get many minutes. Maybe he's being given experience towards the next series.

Taylor seemed seriously distracted in the games he played, but played ok. Gillett, well as Coxy said, he's raw, but it also seems to me that no-one knows what to do with him, unlike Taylor who is mostly running wide in very obvious set plays in the game plan.

I have yet to see the Broncos develop and use Gillett's huge (but raw and often undisciplined) talents. I have yet to see set plays specifically involving him. It's like he's expected to come on and just be brilliant all on his own, and when he's not, he tries too hard to be special, and ends up making stupid decisions. Then, he's simply savaged instead of getting something constructive said, other than, "oh, he's an impact player, leave him on the bench."

On Luke Lewis, I agree - should be rated higher. I thought he made an immediate impact, did some great things as posted above and capped it all off with a huge, almost fatal error.

Like so many have said, NSW ought to focus on football instead of whinging, trying to be too clever by half, like Farah's Fumble, and playing with a chip on their shoulder. I also agree with a poster who said that a Hasler coached Blues would be a far better team than under Stuart.

 

[Son Edo]

Luke Lewis is one of the only blues who really worries me whenever he comes on. He makes things happen

Bloody oath. He made like 3 tackles in a row from dummyhalf

 

[Porthoz]

It was a difference of opinions, yes. But it was going around in circles and I said the only way to know for sure is see Gillette's performance - because we have seen Taylor's over a few years and have something to compare to.

The same could be said for Taylor, his form needs to improve to have a maroons jumper - anyone could use that excuse every day of the week - pretty weak one. I think most people would just admit Taylor would have been a better option for game 3 than Gillette, at least the supporters I talked to all have.

And finally, I think you are wrong once more, because Gillette at his best so far would not have been able to pull off the 80 minute performance of Taylor in the Souths vs Panthers game last weekend.

(P.S I am a big fan of Gillette, first game I saw him play in NRL I was telling eveyone I know about how good he will be, I even felt a bit of compensation for Taylor leaving the broncs ... but I can still call it as it is..

To prevent going in circles again, and because you deserve the courtesy of an answer...

My opinion is based on what in my opinion are the most important factors in a Rugby League player. Being able to run over smaller players, albeit handy, is not one of them. I do recognise heaps of attacking potential in Taylor, as well as the fact he has amazing ball control for such a huge man. Unfortunately, that's pretty much where it ends...

While Taylor can run havok in the NRL against weaker and slower defenses, he isn't cut out for the "in your face" fabric of Origin. He cannot handle the speed, pressure and the fact that he won't get the opportunities for bullying the small men like he does at club level. He won't put in the hard yards in defense, where he is very sluggish and has little to no lateral movement, besides he won't take a hit-up when the team is in trouble... because 1-it's hard work and 2-doesn't fit the highlight reels. Speaking of which, anyone who pulls the crap he did with that loose ball in NSW's try area in game 2, deserves to be sacked on the spot and marked never to play again!

Finally, he has had his apprenticeship in Origin last year, has been on fire at club level pretty much during the whole Origin period (bar the Broncos game) and still dished out mediocrity in every single Origin game he played!

Now on Gillett, he has been in horrible form and took that into Origin. Based on that, I can totally understand why many people think he doesn't deserve his spot. But at least, he's not failing at Origin because he can't handle it. He's failing because he is still very raw and in the worst form of his still very short career! He will learn from this, and I think that was the main reason he was kept in the team, to hopefully learn and make his mark in the maroon jersey in the future.

Now, I'm not gonna go again into the details of which specific attributes and talents I think each player has over the other, but tell me who of the two players you think was better, more consistent and did more for his team in the first 2 years of their NRL career? That is the only concrete measure you can use to begin to assess which player performs at a higher level.

Do not forget that Taylor is playing his fifth NRL season already. Can you convincingly say that Gillett won't be able to pull an 80 minute performance like Taylor's, before his fifth NRL season?

 

[Anonymous person]

But at least, he's not failing at Origin because he can't handle it. He's failing because he is still very raw and in the worst form of his still very short career!

oh is he now? How can you say that with a straight face? Lol You have no idea why he failed at origin level, but he failed. Three times. Badly.

Taylor has played 7 origin matches, gillett has played 3. All 3 of Gillett's have been dreadful, waste-of-a-selection performances. He made 11 hit ups in 85 minutes over 3 games this series, making 70m. Taylor played 71 minutes, 11 hit ups for 90m, in 2 games this series.

Now don't get me wrong, Taylor was useless. Gillett was just beyond useless.

 

[Jeba]

Not saying either was worse than the other, but I'd put them both in the beyond useless category for this series. Taylor's performance in game 2 alone put him into that category.

 

[Son Edo]

oh is he now? How can you say that with a straight face? Lol You have no idea why he failed at origin level, but he failed. Three times. Badly.

Taylor has played 7 origin matches, gillett has played 3. All 3 of Gillett's have been dreadful, waste-of-a-selection performances. He made 11 hit ups in 85 minutes over 3 games this series, making 70m. Taylor played 71 minutes, 11 hit ups for 90m, in 2 games this series.

Now don't get me wrong, Taylor was useless. Gillett was just beyond useless.

Yet the gap between the two isn't very big, maybe about a 1.1x difference. So in terms of uselessness they were atleast on par with each other. lol

 

[anzac7]

To prevent going in circles again, and because you deserve the courtesy of an answer...

My opinion is based on what in my opinion are the most important factors in a Rugby League player. Being able to run over smaller players, albeit handy, is not one of them. I do recognise heaps of attacking potential in Taylor, as well as the fact he has amazing ball control for such a huge man. Unfortunately, that's pretty much where it ends...

While Taylor can run havok in the NRL against weaker and slower defenses, he isn't cut out for the "in your face" fabric of Origin. He cannot handle the speed, pressure and the fact that he won't get the opportunities for bullying the small men like he does at club level. He won't put in the hard yards in defense, where he is very sluggish and has little to no lateral movement, besides he won't take a hit-up when the team is in trouble... because 1-it's hard work and 2-doesn't fit the highlight reels. Speaking of which, anyone who pulls the crap he did with that loose ball in NSW's try area in game 2, deserves to be sacked on the spot and marked never to play again!

Finally, he has had his apprenticeship in Origin last year, has been on fire at club level pretty much during the whole Origin period (bar the Broncos game) and still dished out mediocrity in every single Origin game he played!

Now on Gillett, he has been in horrible form and took that into Origin. Based on that, I can totally understand why many people think he doesn't deserve his spot. But at least, he's not failing at Origin because he can't handle it. He's failing because he is still very raw and in the worst form of his still very short career! He will learn from this, and I think that was the main reason he was kept in the team, to hopefully learn and make his mark in the maroon jersey in the future.

Now, I'm not gonna go again into the details of which specific attributes and talents I think each player has over the other, but tell me who of the two players you think was better, more consistent and did more for his team in the first 2 years of their NRL career? That is the only concrete measure you can use to begin to assess which player performs at a higher level.

Do not forget that Taylor is playing his fifth NRL season already. Can you convincingly say that Gillett won't be able to pull an 80 minute performance like Taylor's, before his fifth NRL season?

Yes, Origin is one thing - this year one has been more useless than the other of which I think it's clear was Gillette.

But I was saying you were wrong in one other comment you made - you were saying that Gillette as his best is better than Taylor at his best, to which I answered by saying that is easily put to rest because Gillette as his best has not shown anything close to what Taylor showed against Penrith (your statement was not about Origin it was about NRL). You did not account for any other factors such as time in the NRL and so forth - it was just Gillette as his best is better than Taylor at his best, which I think it easily proven wrong.

Just trying to point out what you have actually said in the past because I think you had perhaps forgotten.

Having said that, I hope Gillette goes on to have an awesome year for the broncs and can't wait to see some of those shoulder charges hitting the spot again some time soon.

 

[anzac7]

"What I said re Gillett vs. Taylor is that "AT THEIR BEST", I prefer Gillett to Taylor, and that to me Taylor is NOT Origin material."

Above is exactly what you wrote in this thread (and had alluded to previously), to which I answered:

"And finally, I think you are wrong once more, because Gillette at his best so far would not have been able to pull off the 80 minute performance of Taylor in the Souths vs Panthers game last weekend."

If you can show me one game that Gillette has played better than Taylor played in only that game last weekend vs the Panthers (not even taking into consideration other screamers Taylor has played in previously), then I will admit I was wrong. If you haven' watched that game, I strongly suggest you do and listen to the commentary also if you want some further thoughts.

I appreciate your time in answering, you also deserve a proper response as written above, but I'm happy to leave it here if you like because I really don't think such a game exists ... yet.

EDIT: I do agree (as I have said before) that what he did game 2 with that try was just ridiculous and probably cost him his spot - but I don't know about deserving to never return again...

 

[dukey]

I think Gillett's been thrown into Origin too early in his career. He's still finding his feet at club level, to be honest.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I think Gillett's been thrown into Origin too early in his career. He's still finding his feet at club level, to be honest.

fair call I think. Doesn't really help that he seemed to lose all form once picked for Origin. He will make an impact at Origin level but was picked too early

 

[Anonymous person]

I think Gillett's been thrown into Origin too early in his career. He's still finding his feet at club level, to be honest.

no doubt about that, thats why many of us didnt want him there to begin with.

 

[Alec]

Dunno...Origin seems to be more about the 1% reliable forwards who get the job done without making too many mistakes. Dunno if Gillett will ever suit that, he's more of an explosive type of player who isn't afraid to chance his arm. Origin defence is usually too good for individual brilliance.

 

[Coxy]

Dunno...Origin seems to be more about the 1% reliable forwards who get the job done without making too many mistakes. Dunno if Gillett will ever suit that, he's more of an explosive type of player who isn't afraid to chance his arm. Origin defence is usually too good for individual brilliance.

Hence it's unlikely Taylor will ever suit Origin either...unless he listens to what Wayne Bennett tried to tell him at the Broncos ;-)

 

[Bucking Beads]

Hence it's unlikely Taylor will ever suit Origin either...unless he listens to what Wayne Bennett tried to tell him at the Broncos ;-)

But the big difference is Dave Taylor has size :wall: