It’s been getting worse for 3 years in a row. Blind Freddy could see that just look at he points table. Issue is fixing it! Can forgive 400 points odd with a young pack but 500 is a lot to excuse. Young pack that wasn’t responsible for a lot of that excess and was only indirectly for some of it (I.e missing bodyguard for half).
Peter Ryan’s back
- Thread starter ivanhungryjak
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It’s been getting worse for 3 years in a row. Blind Freddy could see that just look at he points table. Issue is fixing it! Can forgive 400 points odd with a young pack but 500 is a lot to excuse. Young pack that wasn’t responsible for a lot of that excess and was only indirectly for some of it (I.e missing bodyguard for half).
- Sep 8, 2009
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From Badel and Meyn’s column today.Ryan slams dark art
NEW Broncos technical adviser Peter Ryan has hit out at the art of wrestling in the NRL and insists he won’t be teaching illegal tactics to improve Brisbane’s defence.
Brisbane coach Wayne Bennett has reached out to former Broncos lock Ryan — one of the code’s most feared hitters in his prime — to bring a harder edge to the Broncos after they conceded 548 points in 25 games this season.
Peter Ryan has ruled out coaching wrestling at the Broncos. Picture: AAP Image/Darren England
Melbourne are the NRL’s defensive benchmark, but they have weathered enormous criticism over their methods. Bennett hates wrestling in the NRL, believing it ruins the spectacle, and Ryan agrees with the super coach.
“I won’t be teaching wrestling, that’s a load of s***,” Ryan fired. “It’s not the way I coach, it’s a blight on the game.
“You can tackle well without wrestling blokes’ heads off and putting them in uncomfortable positions where they fear their neck may be broken.”
- Jul 28, 2016
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Just more backwards archaic thinking.
Talking up the wrestling as if everything is all grapple tackles and chicken wings.
If he's not teaching them about front on contact, getting bodies into the tackle and controlling speed of the ruck by working them onto their back then it's a pointless inclusion to the coaching staff... what would he be teaching "use your shoulder"
- Jan 25, 2014
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Then we aren't winning the premiership, it's as simple as that.
Smokin' Joe
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- Dec 11, 2013
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We came very close to a premiership in ‘15 without a single wrestle technique session. Games can be won without it.
Alec
International Rep
- Mar 4, 2008
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Maybe, but these days you still want every advantage you can think of. Being able to wrestle is a big one.
- Apr 26, 2008
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Who are the best wrestling team, Melbourne? They've got Cam Smith. How much is wrestling really helping them dominate the ruck Vs Smith controlling the ruck.
We won't find out until he retires, but I think wrestling is overrated.
- Jul 28, 2016
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How exactly do you think Cam controls the speed of the ruck without wrestling?? Their best wrestler in defence is Glasby... and in attack all their forwards are focussed on finding their front.
Next best wrestling team is Roosters (although it's Melbourne and then daylight) and where'd they finish with Friend controlling the ruck.
Melbourne's attack has been pretty poor this year but it's their emphasis on the ruck that is winning games this year. They know that you score off quick play the balls.
If you've been watching the game tonight you would have noticed that every storm player running the ball is prioritising finding their front to generate a quick play the ball. Once the play the ball has happened Slater and Smith switch the team into gear.
Munster made a half break through Lewis and then succumbed to Townsend holding on by a finger, but came up with a lightning play the ball. It was followed by a forward who basically surrendered creating another quick play the ball and then an inside ball to Slater who cut through and only just got stopped.
On the other side of the ball every player knows the goal is to get them onto their back and slow the ruck... it's not illegal what they're doing (mostly) it's just a philosophy of their defence that if they're on their back they can't play it quickly and hence they can't get easy tries
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- Jan 25, 2014
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We did make it to the GF in 2015 and nearly won it without wrestling, but we didn't win. And considering our gameplan in that second half, wrestling would have won it for us.
Great solution. Let’s only hire coaches that do everything Bennett wants... Broncs coaching staff need more yes men. You can’t just
drop the shoulder these days, or lift or carry someone back 10 metres. No reward for chopping in half down low either. Half the ‘good’ tackles from Ryan’s era are illegal now and the other half aren’t ‘dominant’. It’s a different game and very different to rugby now.
Agree wrestling isn’t all chicken wings and crushers. It’s the skill of putting players on their back, holding them on their feet so you can tie them up and turning them the wrong way around when they get up. For all the arguments of our defence without it in 15 that’s the exception besides with good wrestle we win that game. Just like Cows made the GF without Thurston but when at the end hard to win with an immortal and a million dollars on the bench. We give up that kind of advantage every week by choosing to not use proper modern tackling techniques like almost every other club.
Besides all Bennett’s protestations are dismissed easily when we don’t do it well as it sounds like sour grapes. If the guy killing it says it shouldn’t be allowed then people might listen. Especially as someone said before, if Broncs benefit from wrestling it is likely the quickest way to get something banned (i.e Alf’s tackling style).
- Mar 4, 2008
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so would have not shutting up shop and trying to protect a 4 point lead
- Mar 14, 2008
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But we didn't. That's ultimately the crux right? No glory in nearly and almost.
- Jan 25, 2013
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The wrestling they’re referring to isn’t getting numbers in, locking up the ball and putting players on their back.
They’re referring to wrestling manoeuvres designed to hurt and force the ball carrier to submit. Just because grapples and rolling pins and chicken wings have been banned doesn’t mean there aren’t 100 other moves that serve the same purpose. They are just as dangerous, and the only reason they don’t get pulled up on the moves is because they train so hard to conceal their efforts so the refs are oblivious to what’s going on.
Why do the Storm do them? It’s not just to slow down the play-the-balls. It’s to allow the defensive line to get back the 10 and ready to spring off their line the moment the player playing the ball touches the ground with it. In a normal situation, the moment momentum stops, held is called. Numbers in a tackle would traditionally mean momentum is stopped quicker, as it’s easy to overpower the ball carrier. What the Storm do though is twist and manipulate the carrier to the point of extreme discomfort, forcing them to effectively go limp, and become a puppet for the defenders. It’s at this point that the Storm keep the carrier moving, making it appear like he’s struggling in a genuine ruck contest, making it appear as if momentum is still going and allowing the defensive line more time to set.
This is Bellamy. I would consider a win-at-all-costs philosophy admirable, except he is willing to cause physical and potentially long-term harm to his opponents, on top of, you know, cheating the cap, rorting player welfare rules, and actively avoiding benefits-the-game ventures. The NRL not only allowing these things to happen, but celebrating the Storm’s achievements, has allowed others to copy them and therefore they have become a literal cancer to the game.
They’re referring to wrestling manoeuvres designed to hurt and force the ball carrier to submit. Just because grapples and rolling pins and chicken wings have been banned doesn’t mean there aren’t 100 other moves that serve the same purpose. They are just as dangerous, and the only reason they don’t get pulled up on the moves is because they train so hard to conceal their efforts so the refs are oblivious to what’s going on.
Why do the Storm do them? It’s not just to slow down the play-the-balls. It’s to allow the defensive line to get back the 10 and ready to spring off their line the moment the player playing the ball touches the ground with it. In a normal situation, the moment momentum stops, held is called. Numbers in a tackle would traditionally mean momentum is stopped quicker, as it’s easy to overpower the ball carrier. What the Storm do though is twist and manipulate the carrier to the point of extreme discomfort, forcing them to effectively go limp, and become a puppet for the defenders. It’s at this point that the Storm keep the carrier moving, making it appear like he’s struggling in a genuine ruck contest, making it appear as if momentum is still going and allowing the defensive line more time to set.
This is Bellamy. I would consider a win-at-all-costs philosophy admirable, except he is willing to cause physical and potentially long-term harm to his opponents, on top of, you know, cheating the cap, rorting player welfare rules, and actively avoiding benefits-the-game ventures. The NRL not only allowing these things to happen, but celebrating the Storm’s achievements, has allowed others to copy them and therefore they have become a literal cancer to the game.
Dee
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- Apr 30, 2010
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The Broncos as a football team need to get real. They really do. The business side of the Brisbane Broncos organisation is going well, really well, but I'm afraid to say the football department is going backwards and things need to change. I'm not talking about a drastic overhaul of players and things as such, we have a great group of players, young up and coming superstars, our attack is pretty good, we aren't coming last and winning wooden spoons (thank god) but, we are turning into a mediocre side who can't get the job done and that job is to make it to the grand final and win it.
We need a change in culture. Yes, really.
What we are currently doing isn't working, it just isn't and you can blame injuries, you can blame bad luck but the truth is, our culture as a football team is soft. We have a terribly weak mentally and you can clearly see that by our defence since 2015. We have gone backwards since 2015 and every year it's getting worse, especially with our defence and defence is all about attitude and our attitude sucks. We seem like a team who WANTS to win, which is normal, you are playing sport and obviously you want to win, but when I look at our team it just seems they aren't prepared to pay the price and do WHATEVER it takes to win. There is no burning desire inside each player to step up when it really matters and I believe this starts with our culture. Wayne is the greatest but I feel he is too soft on these players, way too soft. He knows their fragile and saying one wrong thing will ruin their confidence but this needs to fucking change. They aren't babies. They are men playing a physical sport at the professional level and getting paid really well to do it, they represent the greatest club in the world and shouldn't be this fragile. They need to wake the **** up and look at the Storm, it's becoming a joke at how dominant they are, they completely rule the NRL and I know alot of you don't agree with their methods but if the Broncos made 3 GF's in a row, would you really complain? Ofcourse you wouldn't, you'd be proud of our team and support them no matter what.
We need a change in culture. Yes, really.
What we are currently doing isn't working, it just isn't and you can blame injuries, you can blame bad luck but the truth is, our culture as a football team is soft. We have a terribly weak mentally and you can clearly see that by our defence since 2015. We have gone backwards since 2015 and every year it's getting worse, especially with our defence and defence is all about attitude and our attitude sucks. We seem like a team who WANTS to win, which is normal, you are playing sport and obviously you want to win, but when I look at our team it just seems they aren't prepared to pay the price and do WHATEVER it takes to win. There is no burning desire inside each player to step up when it really matters and I believe this starts with our culture. Wayne is the greatest but I feel he is too soft on these players, way too soft. He knows their fragile and saying one wrong thing will ruin their confidence but this needs to fucking change. They aren't babies. They are men playing a physical sport at the professional level and getting paid really well to do it, they represent the greatest club in the world and shouldn't be this fragile. They need to wake the **** up and look at the Storm, it's becoming a joke at how dominant they are, they completely rule the NRL and I know alot of you don't agree with their methods but if the Broncos made 3 GF's in a row, would you really complain? Ofcourse you wouldn't, you'd be proud of our team and support them no matter what.
I don’t think the Storm are as bad as stated but perhaps I’m naive. I think there is more room for nuance in technique and strategy without playing dirty or reckless. But at the end of the day I’d settle for tying up the ball, putting people on their back or holding them up a second or two longer to not be bottom 4 of ruck control.
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- Oct 7, 2017
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Sometimes we consider change to be unfair for the game but it can also be unfair for the team if we don’t accept it. The wrestle to hurt is totally unacceptable but to slow down the play the ball to improve our defence is a no brainer. If we don’t, it gives our opposition too big of an advantage and by being the good guys we have become one of the worst defensive sides in the competition. I hate the wrestle but if the NRL are accepting so should we until until it changes.
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_wwong
International Captain
- May 27, 2013
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Imagine if broncos did all this, had a rock solid line that’s always set and ready. Then could also hit and stick without the arm grabbing stuff... get it sorted ffs
