NEWS Plod Haas

[Clintos]

I REALLY fucking hate when people use the "tough upbringing" excuse as if it somehow pardons their shit behaviour.

Guess what - there are many more people who had tough upbringings that don't walk around acting like fuckwits.

If your family in prison then they likely deserve to be there. If you don't the the message then you're either an idiot, or ignorant.

 

[Clintos]

I think a lot of you are overreacting in here.
I get it, what he did was shit, and he should cop a nice big fine to the hip pocket for it, and probably some counseling.

But there are some of you in here calling for a fucking year long suspension, and ripping up his contract, and all sorts of other nonsense.
There has been far worse shit NRL players have done in the past, and copped far less than what some of you are suggesting.

Did anyone get hurt? Did he beat up on his woman? Did he assault a cop? Did he piss in his own mouth while his buddy filmed it? Did he dry hump a dog?
Was he driving under the influence?
Nope.

He used some bad words and threatened some coppers.
Smash him in the hip pocket and move on.

Folau said some bad words that people didn't like and they lynched him for it.

You can't say the precedent isn't there.

FTR - not advocating to sit him down for the season here, just making an observation.

 

[pagey]

I REALLY fucking hate when people use the "tough upbringing" excuse as if it somehow pardons their shit behaviour.

Guess what - there are many more people who had tough upbringings that don't walk around acting like fuckwits.

If your family in prison then they likely deserve to be there. If you don't the the message then you're either an idiot, or ignorant.

You're right there are many that don't act like fuckwits, but most have episodes of acting out of some form. Obviously doesn't excuse his behavior but I'm willing to give him the chance to right his wrongs , instead of sitting him out for a year (which is a complete fucking joke). I mean there's players that have actually physically abused people that get off with less.

 

[Kimlo]

For everyone saying Walters did poorly with storming out of the interview.... You are coming onto a Payne Haas thread after he just did a stupid, disgusting and embassarassimg thing and discussing...... Kevin walters.....

Deflection and distraction at its finest I think...

He's learnt from the best.

 

[McHunt]

Folau said some bad words that people didn't like and they lynched him for it.

You can't say the precedent isn't there.

FTR - not advocating to sit him down for the season here, just making an observation.

Very different cases.

Israel DID NOT say any "bad words." They were "good words" from the "good book." He rightly (in his mind) pointed out a whole bunch of sins that were liable to wind you up in Hell. Bumming another bloke was only one of them. What he said was fairly liberal compared to what you would hear from any Mullah. That said, the ARU or his club were within reason for not wanting him saying that stuff for team harmony, and PR. They were wrong contractually but probably right socially. Also worth noting, proselytising is part of religion. You're not meant to keep it secret, though Islam does have some advice on that area when you are living in the Dar Al Harb (if you take all that seriously).

What Payne said was unacceptable by any yardstick. They were cut and dried "very bad words."

 

[McHunt]

Occasional gender advisor to the NRL, Dr Catharine Lumby has come out in Payne's corner, prompting the NRL to disavow her as an official speaker. Dr Lumby (relation to Ash unknown), who is currently Professor of Media in the Department of Media, Music, Communication and Cultural Studies at Macquarie University, does not think his actions warrant suspension:

“No I don’t. Not on the court account. And I think it is clear that the police accepted the apology. I think that a good behaviour bond is totally appropriate because clearly he showed genuine remorse and of his own volition apologised to the police. What was said was clearly out of character and I believe in second chances. I think (being) taken to court and having to confront his behaviour and to apologise is sanction enough.”

“While it is clear I am not suggesting that the majority of police are racist, it is true that people from some cultural backgrounds have sometimes had a history of distrust of the police which involves members of their family and their community and it can influence the way that they respond to police authority."

Not suggesting the majority of police are racist

“I am certainly not suggesting that this was racially motivated in any way, or that the majority of police in Australia are racist. But there is a history in some communities of having multiple adverse encounters with police and they may respond different to police authority than someone from an Anglo background. I do think that we need to be aware of that. The guy obviously felt really, really bad about it. I reckon nothing further should happen and I just applaud him for showing genuine remorse and apologising.”

NRL Chief Executive Officer Andrew Abdo was quick to distance himself from Professor Lumby:

“We’ve never had this interesting title or interesting role. We’ve never had a Chief Gender Adviser. She’s not employed by the NRL, and she’s certainly not a spokesman for the NRL … she has provided advisory work to us in the past. (Ms Lumby’s) committee hasn’t met for six months … her views are purely expressing her personal capacity on this matter."

“We’ll need to think very carefully about what we want to do in the welfare and education space. There’s no excuse for Payne’s conduct. It’s fair to say he’ll be facing sanctions.”

NSW Crime State Police Commissioner Mick Fuller weighed in:

“I think it’s a shocker of a comment, we won’t be worried about culture, we won’t be worried about gender."

As did Gotham Police Minister David Elliott

“The decision by the NRL not to suspend, or indeed expel, Payne Haas from their ranks after his verbal assault and threatening behaviour against both male and female police officers sets a terrible example for our youth. And is an insult to the 17,000 NSW Police Officers who have been to hell and back for the people of NSW over the last 18 months.”

“Given the high expectations placed on NRL players, this breathtaking hypocrisy from certain Rugby League Administrators has the potential to seriously damage the century old relationship between the police and the League. I seriously hope the NRL reverses this injustice before permanent damage is done. It’s a matter of mutual respect.”


Possibly related

It's not the first time Dr Lumby has been up to her lady nuts in controversy. After two Bulldogs players got down for some hot schoolgirl action last year:

"What we need to focus on is whether sex is consensual, safe and ethical. That is the whole focus of the education I have worked on with the NRL. I have huge concerns for these young women. They can make their own decisions and they have a future and let’s leave them out of this. This is not a sex scandal, this is a workplace conduct issue. And I don’t like the word sex scandal because it implies that these young women, like, it was all inappropriate. Women over the age of consent are allowed to have sex, and plenty of them do.”

McHunt

 

[Kooly87]

Very different cases.

Israel DID NOT say any "bad words." They were "good words" from the "good book." He rightly (in his mind) pointed out a whole bunch of sins that were liable to wind you up in Hell. Bumming another bloke was only one of them. What he said was fairly liberal compared to what you would hear from any Mullah. That said, the ARU or his club were within reason for not wanting him saying that stuff for team harmony, and PR. They were wrong contractually but probably right socially. Also worth noting, proselytising is part of religion. You're not meant to keep it secret, though Islam does have some advice on that area when you are living in the Dar Al Harb (if you take all that seriously).

What Payne said was unacceptable by any yardstick. They were cut and dried "very bad words."

Correct. Even if they were 'bad' words, posting a stupid but ultimately generic meme on social media and repeatedly verbally abusing and threatening multiple Police Officers are in no way one and the same thing.

Only a simpleton could conflate the two things.

 

[Clintos]

Very different cases.

Israel DID NOT say any "bad words." They were "good words" from the "good book." He rightly (in his mind) pointed out a whole bunch of sins that were liable to wind you up in Hell. Bumming another bloke was only one of them. What he said was fairly liberal compared to what you would hear from any Mullah. That said, the ARU or his club were within reason for not wanting him saying that stuff for team harmony, and PR. They were wrong contractually but probably right socially. Also worth noting, proselytising is part of religion. You're not meant to keep it secret, though Islam does have some advice on that area when you are living in the Dar Al Harb (if you take all that seriously).

What Payne said was unacceptable by any yardstick. They were cut and dried "very bad words."

But they were interpreted publicly as "bad words".
Rightly or wrongly the public perception was a negative one and he was punished for his words.

I'm not making a religion vs violence argument - it's purely 2 people getting in trouble for using "bad words" that people don't like.
Just because Folau hid them behind the guise of religious entitlement doesn't make people any less upset.

People can say whatever the **** they want. I don't give 2 shits. Freedom of speech and all that - but people need to accept that free speech doesn't somehow render you free of consequences for said speech.

The issue here is that in today's cancel culture the consequences for someone's use of free speech is far more severe and people need to get used to that or shut their mouths.

I'm sure the Broncos don't want Payne saying things like that for the same reasons the ARU didn't want Folau saying things.

Again - I am not advocating one way or another. My point is mostly that people have ostracised Folau for using words that people didn't like and there is a precedent.

 

[McHunt]

But they were interpreted publicly as "bad words".
Rightly or wrongly the public perception was a negative one and he was punished for his words.

I'm not making a religion vs violence argument - it's purely 2 people getting in trouble for using "bad words" that people don't like.
Just because Folau hid them behind the guise of religious entitlement doesn't make people any less upset.

People can say whatever the **** they want. I don't give 2 shits. Freedom of speech and all that - but people need to accept that free speech doesn't somehow render you free of consequences for said speech.

The issue here is that in today's cancel culture the consequences for someone's use of free speech is far more severe and people need to get used to that or shut their mouths.

I'm sure the Broncos don't want Payne saying things like that for the same reasons the ARU didn't want Folau saying things.

Again - I am not advocating one way or another. My point is mostly that people have ostracised Folau for using words that people didn't like and there is a precedent.

My only point is that Israel's religion is at fault in his case, and Payne's is even harder on the same topics, only he keeps it quiet. But both are specifically protected by religious freedom of speech, whether we like it or not.

Payne's assault (making threats of injury) is not protected by freedom of speech. It is specifically excluded and carries a criminal charge, even in NSW, the crime capital of Australia.

 

[abashii]

I REALLY fucking hate when people use the "tough upbringing" excuse as if it somehow pardons their shit behaviour.

Guess what - there are many more people who had tough upbringings that don't walk around acting like fuckwits.

If your family in prison then they likely deserve to be there. If you don't the the message then you're either an idiot, or ignorant.

It's not about pardoning his behaviour. If we don't want him to act in this way again, understanding why he did so in the first place is key both for developing strategies to change his behaviour and looking at the likelihood of re-offending. You could say the same thing for Lodge, for Folau, Carney or any other player.

 

[Kooly87]

But they were interpreted publicly as "bad words".
Rightly or wrongly the public perception was a negative one and he was punished for his words.

I'm not making a religion vs violence argument - it's purely 2 people getting in trouble for using "bad words" that people don't like.
Just because Folau hid them behind the guise of religious entitlement doesn't make people any less upset.

People can say whatever the **** they want. I don't give 2 shits. Freedom of speech and all that - but people need to accept that free speech doesn't somehow render you free of consequences for said speech.

The issue here is that in today's cancel culture the consequences for someone's use of free speech is far more severe and people need to get used to that or shut their mouths.

I'm sure the Broncos don't want Payne saying things like that for the same reasons the ARU didn't want Folau saying things.

Again - I am not advocating one way or another. My point is mostly that people have ostracised Folau for using words that people didn't like and there is a precedent.

Freedom of speech with regards to Religious beliefs is protected in Australia. Threats of violence are specifically excluded. It's a black and white law.

You're attempting to simplify something to suit your argument, but you're absolutely incorrect on this one according to the laws in Australia.

 

[Broncs_Fan]

Abdo basically saying he is going to be suspended for games.

Lumby’s comments probably didn’t help his cause either.

 

[Clintos]

Correct. Even if they were 'bad' words, posting a stupid but ultimately generic meme on social media and repeatedly verbally abusing and threatening multiple Police Officers are in no way one and the same thing.

Only a simpleton could conflate the two things.

If your inference is that Payne's comments were worse - then I agree.

My point was not to 'compare apples with apples', but rather highlight that people's calls to sit him out for the season or whatever it was is not overly surprising given the punishment given to Folau for comments that you yourself consider lesser. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

At no point did I conflate the two things, I assure you.

 

[Kooly87]

If your inference is that Payne's comments were worse - then I agree.

My point was not to 'compare apples with apples', but rather highlight that people's calls to sit him out for the season or whatever it was is not overly surprising given the punishment given to Folau for comments that you yourself consider lesser. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

At no point did I conflate the two things, I assure you.

Who was Folau punished by exactly? He was sacked by the ARU, but they had to pay a settlement once he was pressing legal action. They likely would have lost had they been taken to Court. I think it's fair to say now that this 'punishment' was invalid and they paid him handsomely for their decision.

The NRL doesn't employ Folau and they certainly can't punish him. Choosing to not employ him is an entirely different kettle of fish.

 

[Clintos]

Freedom of speech with regards to Religious beliefs is protected in Australia. Threats of violence are specifically excluded. It's a black and white law.

You're attempting to simplify something to suit your argument, but you're absolutely incorrect on this one according to the laws in Australia.

I did not even mention the word law in my post. I am very well versed in Australian law, I can assure you.

I am not attempting to simplify anything, and I'm not even creating an argument on it, but ust because something is illegal does not mean the public will not be upset about it.

It just means the person can then be sued for acting upon said public outcry.

 

[Kooly87]

I did not even mention the word law in my post. I am very well versed in Australian law, I can assure you.

I am not attempting to simplify anything, and I'm not even creating an argument on it, but ust because something is illegal does not mean the public will not be upset about it.

It just means the person can then be sued for acting upon said public outcry.

Please re-read what you just wrote. It's nonsensical.

 

[mrslong]

Ranting and raving when you're worked up and angry is different to actually acting out what you're saying. (I've said some awful things I didn't mean in a rage).

And I'm the first to be up and arms and judgey about violence against women.

Side note: What is happening to Folau is a joke, there are way worse offenders in the NRL (oh hi Dylan Walker) and yet the cancel culture is so vitriolic that because he's a RWNJ he's the worst? Please.

----
I think the Broncos culture took a massive hit when the Alumbra incident happenned and it's all been downhill since then.

 

[Clintos]

Who was Folau punished by exactly? He was sacked by the ARU, but they had to pay a settlement once he was pressing legal action. They likely would have lost had they been taken to Court.

The NRL doesn't employ Folau and they certainly can't punish him. Choosing to not employ him is an entirely different kettle of fish.

Folau has been punished by the public.

He lost his job, and rightly sued.
He got another job in another country and the public was upset
He tried to get another job in his home country and the public outcry was bad enough for the club to terminate discussions.