Round 1 Lineup

[Morepudding]

time for a new line up with a few more pieces of the puzzle known (or at least reported)

1. Jamayne Isaako
2. David Mead
3. Herbie Farnworth
4. Tesi Niu
5. Xavier Coates
6. Anthony Milford (Brodie Croft if Milford isn't fit for round 1)
7. Tom Dearden
8. Tevita Pangai Jnr
9. Jake Turpin
10. Matt Lodge
11. Alex Glenn (c)
12. Corey Oates
13. John Asiata

14. Corey Paix
15. Tom Flegler
16. Jordan Riki
17. Pat Carrigan

I know people don't rate our squad, but IMO it isn;t anywhere near as bad as they think ... there was a mass conspiracy against us from the NRL, COVID, Injuries and let's not forget their inside man Seibold, that resulted in our first ever spoon.

with a new coach, everyone will be playing for spots and contracts, not to mention that i'm sure last year doesn't sit well with the squad; i'd expect a much improved season from the boys finishing in the 6-8 region ... assuming we're not killed by injuries again

I mean, still the worst 17 in the comp though. We’re going back to back baby!

 

[turkeysnow]

time for a new line up with a few more pieces of the puzzle known (or at least reported)

1. Jamayne Isaako
2. David Mead
3. Herbie Farnworth
4. Tesi Niu
5. Xavier Coates
6. Anthony Milford (Brodie Croft if Milford isn't fit for round 1)
7. Tom Dearden
8. Tevita Pangai Jnr
9. Jake Turpin
10. Matt Lodge
11. Alex Glenn (c)
12. Corey Oates
13. John Asiata

14. Corey Paix
15. Tom Flegler
16. Jordan Riki
17. Pat Carrigan

I know people don't rate our squad, but IMO it isn;t anywhere near as bad as they think ... there was a mass conspiracy against us from the NRL, COVID, Injuries and let's not forget their inside man Seibold, that resulted in our first ever spoon.

with a new coach, everyone will be playing for spots and contracts, not to mention that i'm sure last year doesn't sit well with the squad; i'd expect a much improved season from the boys finishing in the 6-8 region ... assuming we're not killed by injuries again

Switch Oates with Riki, then Oates drops out when Haas returns. I honestly would rather see Pangai at 13, for the first hit out then asiata come on.

 

[theshed]

I mean, still the worst 17 in the comp though. We’re going back to back baby!

I honestly think we still have one of the best forward packs/benches in the comp on paper. If Kev gets them firing and injury free we should dominate that part of the game.

It’s our backs and spine that’s really lacking.

 

[Gaz]

time for a new line up with a few more pieces of the puzzle known (or at least reported)

1. Jamayne Isaako
2. David Mead
3. Herbie Farnworth
4. Tesi Niu
5. Xavier Coates
6. Anthony Milford (Brodie Croft if Milford isn't fit for round 1)
7. Tom Dearden
8. Tevita Pangai Jnr
9. Jake Turpin
10. Matt Lodge
11. Alex Glenn (c)
12. Corey Oates
13. John Asiata

14. Corey Paix
15. Tom Flegler
16. Jordan Riki
17. Pat Carrigan

I know people don't rate our squad, but IMO it isn;t anywhere near as bad as they think ... there was a mass conspiracy against us from the NRL, COVID, Injuries and let's not forget their inside man Seibold, that resulted in our first ever spoon.

with a new coach, everyone will be playing for spots and contracts, not to mention that i'm sure last year doesn't sit well with the squad; i'd espect a much improved season from the boys finishing in the 6-8 region ... assuming we're not killed by injuries again

I applaud your optimism but having virtually the same team that won us the spoon last year, together with a rookie coach, I’m not sure I can share it just yet.

I have to admit my confidence and excitement in our team, at this stage of preseason, has been greater in years gone by and as such my glass this year is half empty.

We need to rebuild and regroup from the top down and I am looking forward to that happening with Donaghy. He needs to fix our recruitment / retention, put in place a workable succession plan and above all sharpen our contract and negotiating skills - he can start with Staggs.

White was successful at getting bums on seats and corporates into boxs with mostly mediocre on field performance. Granted this is important but my hope is our new CEO will focus more on team and the mechanics behind it.

In the meantime Kevin has to work with what he’s got, as he has admitted, and hope its good enough in his rookie year - all the best Kevvie.

 

[Wolfie]

Except the timelines are all over the place without context.. the better comparisons would be players that were discarded in preference of the current squad or the sliding doors moments, which requires some review of the history that led to certain decisions

For the purposes of this I am not going to bother with players that were on our books as 15/16 yr olds such as Ponga.... realistically Tino falls into that category as well. Rather I will flag players that were contracted from 2011 onwards

1. Isaako - other fullbacks contracted:Darius Boyd, Ben Barba, Anthony Milford, Jamayne Isaako, Corey Allan, Tesi Niu

Out of that list I'd say Milford would've been the best option at fullback when he came in 2015, but coach went with Darius. I'd say most believe Isaako is a placeholder with potential for Niu, Walsh or a recruit to take the place in the next couple years.

I’m not entirely sold on Allan like you are and we will see how he goes with the dogs to get a better idea. I believe he signed elsewhere in early 2018 and there were rumblings that he wanted $350k-$400k despite not playing a first grade game

2. Farnworth (should be noted that Herbie is being flagged as center) - other wingers contracted: Maranta (weird choice and I think he's now retired anyway), Josh Hoffman, Jharal Yow Yeh (retired), Gerard Beale (now retired), Jordan Kahu (basically retired), Corey Oates, Stewart Mills (retired??), Daniel Vidot (retired), Jamayne Isaako, Jonus Pearson, David Mead, Herbie Farnworth, Xavier Coates, Richie Kennar, Jesse Arthars, Ilikena Vudogo (back in Fiji)

Out of those most are retired or not the preferred option in the team they are playing in, but Oates was effectively selected as the preferred winger from 2013/14 onwards and is now being shifted to the 2nd row or out the door. That being said I'm taking Herbie and Coates out of all those options, and probably taking Arthars over Pearson anyway... Arthars (22) is 3yrs younger than Pearson (25)

3. Staggs / Gagai - Other contracted centres: Justin Hodges (retired), Gerard Beale (retired), Dale Copley, Dane Gagai, Jordan Kahu, Jack Reed (retired), Jordan Drew (may be retired), Tom Opacic, James Roberts, Tautau Moga, Kotoni Staggs, Gehamat Shibasaki, Jack Bird, Herbie Farnworth, Xavier Coates, Izaia Perese, Jesse Arthars

From that list Hodgo was obviously our preferred center up until retirement in 2015. Gagai was sacked in 2012 for disciplinary reasons, but he was being flagged as our fullback (rather than centre) throughout his juniors. The preferred centre coming through was Copley who was subsequently replaced by Roberts in 2016, but prior to that we had Jack Reed playing centre from 2011-2016. So the centre pairing the club went with from 2011-2016 included Justin Hodges, Jack Reed and James Roberts. You could say that Gagai is better than Jack Reed, but I think Jack was very good for us. It is noted that Gagai debuted for origin in 2015, so he took a little while to get going as well and would have needed to be accommodated elsewhere in the team until surpassing Jack (wing being the most likely following JYY retirement).

In saying that I would take Staggs over Gagai, noting that Gagai’s first major contract is his current 4-year $600k+ deal with souths. So when it came crunch time for contract discussions he signed a big money deal and moved on, which can draw comparisons to Staggs and suggests we may not be too much better off than we are now

4. Niu / Opacic - Comparison is a bit odd given Niu is playing right centre this year and Opacic would likely fall into the left centre competition if he were at the broncos.

As per above, but realistically the preferred approach is having both of these players on the books. I'm surprised the broncos didn't go in for Opacic this year given our shortage at the position, but I believe they are planning to play Herbie at left centre.

I don't necessarily agree with Herbie being a left centre, but I am definitely taking Herbie over Opa.

5. Coates / Pearson
As per above I'm taking Coates

6. Milford / Hunt other contracted 5/8's: Darren Lockyer (retired), Corey Norman, Anthony Milford, Kodi Nikorima, Benji Marshall

Hunt has predominantly played halfback and the obvious comparison would've been Kodi vs Milf, but assuming Bhunt is included in the conversation it would be a requirement that we would have had to pay $1m+ to have kept him over St George. The broncos wanted Hunt and offered him $850k (more than fair)... so under those assumptions it becomes Hunt vs Milf at $1M. Despite what people think Milf has been a far superior player to Bhunt and has won our player of the year in 2018... whereas Bhunt hasn’t come close to doing anything since the move.

Last year Milf was horrendous, but Hunt has been dropped and shifted out of halfback numerous times since signing with St George and has choked spectacularly in clutch situations, vs Rabbits in the finals and when playing 7 for qld.

In the Milf vs Kodi situation it would appear Kodi has been the better since leaving in 2019, but when playing together Milf has been far superior... so all up Milf appears the better selection from the available, although as I said in the fullback section hindsight suggests he may have been better off as the fullback when he first came in 2015, which would've created an open spot at 6 for Kodi, Bhunt or Taylor.

7. Dearden / Taylor Other halfbacks contracted: Peter Wallace (retired), Ben Hunt, Scott Prince (retired), Ashley Taylor, Tom Dearden, Sean O'Sullivan, Brodie Croft


Hunt has been covered above so the next obvious is Ash Taylor. I'd say it's too early to call on Taylor vs Dearden. Taylor will be 26 in a few weeks time and has really only played at a seriously good level for 1 year out of 5, by comparison Milford will be 27 in July and has achieved far more for a similar pay cheque.

Dearden has played 1yr with a dysfunctional team and musical chairs in the rest of the spine.

If it came down to having an inconsistent Taylor on high salary or Dearden at 6yr his junior... I'm probably taking Dearden.

8. Haas / Arrow Others props contracted: Petero Civoniceva (retired), Sam Thaiday (retired), Ben Hannant (retired), Nick Kenny (retired), Josh McGuire, David Hala (retired), Scott Anderson (retired), Mitchell Dodds (retired), Dunamis Lui, Shane Tronc (retired), Korbin Sims, Kurtis Lingwoodock (retired), Jarrod Wallace, Martin Kennedy (de-registered??), Francis Molo, Adam Blair (retired), Joe Ofahengaue, James Gavet (retired), Matthew Lodge, Tevita Pangai Jr, Patrick Carrigan, George Fai (retired/not playing), Payne Haas, Patrick Mago, Sam Tagataese (retired), Tom Flegler , Rhys Kennedy, Keenan Palasia, Ethan Bullemor, Jordan Riki

I wouldn't actually consider Arrow a prop, but I guess he falls into a similar category as Carrigan. Realistically the choice came down to Offa vs Arrow, and obviously the broncos would've been far better served going with Arrow.

Out of the list not currently with broncos Josh McGuire is the other obvious forward we could do with right now.

Lui was pretty well useless up until last year when it was realised he was better served as a prop (was a second rower all the way through juniors) and the new rules started favouring a smaller more mobile prop so hard to argue with the broncos letting him go.

Molo has only just kicked on and Mago has hardly set the world alight.

Our current front row stocks comprise Haas, Lodge, TPJ, Carrigan, Flegler (with Kennedy and Bullemor waiting in the wings as depth). Palasia is an unknown and Riki looks likely to transition to second row.

I would suggest McGuire or Arrow over Lodge given Lodge's contract is huge and he was and still is largely unknown compared to the known commodity of McGuire and the now known commodity of Arrow.

And you would probably take Lui over Kennedy now, but you would've been living with 8-9 years of mediocrity before hitting some sort of relevance as a footballer.

9. Turpin / McCullough - Other hookers contracted: Andrew McCullough, Kurt Baptiste, Jake Granville, Matt Parcell, Jake Simpkin, Jake Turpin, Cory Paix, Kobe Hetherington

Hooker has been a seriously troublesome position for a long time if you consider that Macca may have peaked (become complacent) anywhere from 2012 to 2015 and I'd say there are several sliding door moments.

Parcell may have been a contender for hooker had he been favoured over Macca heading into 2016, but Macca had just signed a 2yr extension in April 2015. Probably the most perplexing to me was letting Simpkin go in 2019 seemingly in favour of Paix.

I’m not sure of how the contract negotiations may have gone to instigate the loss of Simpkin, but he was a highly regarded genuine hooker coming through and it appeared Macca was never going to be in Seibold’s plan. Instead they banked the future of our hooker rotation on Turpin and Paix who are both halfbacks come hookers, which is odd considering Seibold is well aware of how important the hooker position is after his success with Cook.

10. Lodge / Collins
As per above

11. Glenn / Su'A - other contracted second rowers: David Stagg (retired), Sam Thaiday (retired), Dane Carlaw (retired), Alex Glenn, Ben Te'o, Matt Gillett (retired), Aaron Whitchurch (retired), Todd Lowrie (retired), Jaydn Su'A, David Fifita, Jordan Riki

From the above the obvious ones are Sua and Fifita and they were ear marked as the back row pairing for the next decade. Unfortunately for us Shannon Boyd decided it was better to forego the better part of $1.2m to work on a farm (that or it was deemed that being too fat was grounds for medical retirement) and Cartwright thought it best to walk away from $600k for a minimum contract in Parramatta, which paved the way for the largest contract in NRL history to pry away one half of the future back row rotation.

Prior to that and for whatever reason the broncos were happy to let Sua walk mid contract, which in hindsight is a massive **** up by the coach and also the R&R team for allowing it to happen.

We are now scrambling to lock down literally our only second rower for next year in Piakura and hoping that Riki can permanently transition to the back row

12. Oates / Fifita
As per above

13. Asiata / Tino - Other contracted locks: Corey Parker (retired), Mitchell Frei (ISC??) Jai Arrow, Jamil Hopoate (out of contract), John Asiata, Tino

As mentioned Tino left when he was about 17 and the decision was actually between Fifita and Tino. Had we gone Tino over Fifita I think the rugba leeeg world would’ve been in shock, but would he have stayed when the contract was up?? I’d say he’d still be a talent but more likely to end up in our second row rather than our middle rotation

The other obvious miss was Arrow as the club went with Offa instead... and realistically McGuire was looking like a broncos lifer in that lock role. Hindsight would suggest that Arrow would be in the conversation for the captaincy had he stayed.

So my sliding doors team would probably be along the lines of

1. Milford (from 2015 onwards)
2. Herbie
3. Staggs
4. Coates/Opa/Niu
5. Coates/Isaako
6. Kodi
7. Dearden
8. Haas
9. Turpin / Parcell / Simpkin (waiting in the wings)
10. McGuire
11. Sua
12. Fifita
13. Arrow

14. Turpin/Parcell/Simpkin/Oates
15. Carrigan
16. Flegler/Riki
17. TPJ

Tommy is miles better as a right center than he is on the left. He is almost like a manufactured left center, but he's far more natural on the right, he was always a right sided player coming through. At the cowboys, he was playing on the right when he was doing really well there.

Still surprised Pearson hasnt kicked on. Before he broke his leg he was playing some terrific footy.

 

[McHunt]

I honestly think we still have one of the best forward packs/benches in the comp on paper.

Sounds like you have the same piece of paper I was looking at last year. I wiped my arse on it halfway through the season.

Since then we lost Fifita, the best forward in the entire comp.

Meanwhile, Haas and Carrigan were our best toilers in 2020, but neither added anything in attack and our defence was our historical worst. Haas and TPJ have outed themselves as serial boneheads. Lodge did nothing I can remember. Glenn is our best captain candidate yet is already having his testimonial. Oates has become such a liability out wide he's been moved to the forwards. Etc.

Haas and Carrigan are the ones who concern me most, given the accolades they have on paper. Haas because he looked like he was running on autopilot, while still managing to notch up the numbers. Carrigan's captaincy was non existant, presiding over said worst defensive record, and he's a bit of a gumby in attack.

God knows whether Kevvie can find the screw that fell out of TPJ's head. There's 12 points a game in there. We just don't know for whom.

 

[theshed]

Sounds like you have the same piece of paper I was looking at last season. I wiped my arse on it halfway through the season.

Since then we lost Fifita, the best forward in the entire comp.

Meanwhile, Haas and Carrigan were our best toilers in 2020, but the neither added anything in attack and our defence was our historical worst. Haas and TPJ have outed themselves as serial boneheads. Lodge did nothing I can remember. Glenn is our best captain candidate yet is already having his testimonial. Oates has become such a liability out wide he's been moved to the forwards. Etc.

Haas and Carrigan are the ones who concern me most, given the accolades they have on paper. Haas because he looked like he was running on autopilot, while still managing to notch up the numbers. Carrigan's captaincy was non existant, presiding over said worst defensive record, and he's a bit of a gumby in attack.

God knows whether Kevvie can find the screw that fell out of TPJ's head. There's 12 points a game in there. We just don't know for whom.

What’s Glenn’s testimonial have to do with anything?

 

[Wolfie]

Sounds like you have the same piece of paper I was looking at last season. I wiped my arse on it halfway through the season.

Since then we lost Fifita, the best forward in the entire comp.

Meanwhile, Haas and Carrigan were our best toilers in 2020, but the neither added anything in attack and our defence was our historical worst. Haas and TPJ have outed themselves as serial boneheads. Lodge did nothing I can remember. Glenn is our best captain candidate yet is already having his testimonial. Oates has become such a liability out wide he's been moved to the forwards. Etc.

Haas and Carrigan are the ones who concern me most, given the accolades they have on paper. Haas because he looked like he was running on autopilot, while still managing to notch up the numbers. Carrigan's captaincy was non existant, presiding over said worst defensive record, and he's a bit of a gumby in attack.

God knows whether Kevvie can find the screw that fell out of TPJ's head. There's 12 points a game in there. We just don't know for whom.

I think its more the way we used Carrigan and Haas, i dont their their defence or the captaincy issues were down to them as far as our pack goes. They were both run into the ground and rarely got enough of a break to freshen themselves up, so mistakes were bound to happen. I think we will see a lot more actually from those two this year playing less minutes. We need the toilers to compliment the likes of TPJ and Asiata and i think they will offer a lot more impact.

 

[Foordy]

Since then we lost Fifita, the best highest paid forward in the entire comp.

fixed it for you

 

[McHunt]

fixed it for you

Sour grapes aside, the kid didn't land that contract for no good reason. He's the best forward talent in the comp. Whether he continues his trajectory, and earns it, is another story.

I think its more the way we used Carrigan and Haas, i dont their their defence or the captaincy issues were down to them as far as our pack goes. They were both run into the ground and rarely got enough of a break to freshen themselves up, so mistakes were bound to happen. I think we will see a lot more actually from those two this year playing less minutes. We need the toilers to compliment the likes of TPJ and Asiata and i think they will offer a lot more impact.

Why would they have been "run into the ground" if they were part of the comp's best pack? My question-mark on Haas is more about how rarely he broke the line in attack. Carrigan, likewise. The pair of them got the ball enough.

You wouldn't have known Patty was captain, on the field.

What’s Glenn’s testimonial have to do with anything?

Let's just say there's not a lot of confidence our leader of the pack (the best in the comp on paper) will make it to October.

 

[Foordy]

Sour grapes aside, the kid didn't land that contract for no good reason. He's the best forward talent in the comp. Whether he continues his trajectory, and earns it, is another story.

it's not sour grapes he isn't the best forward in the comp ... he may be one day ... but as of 2021 he is not

edit: he "earned" that contract because the Titans were not only desperate for a marquee signing, but were embarrassed that he turned down their other massive over offers

 

[McHunt]

it's not sour grapes he isn't the best forward in the comp ... he may be one day ... but as of 2021 he is not

In attack he is. No question.

 

[Foordy]

In attack he is. No question.

still wrong

 

[theshed]

Sour grapes aside, the kid didn't land that contract for no good reason. He's the best forward talent in the comp. Whether he continues his trajectory, and earns it, is another story.


Why would they have been "run into the ground" if they were part of the comp's best pack? My question-mark on Haas is more about how rarely he broke the line in attack. Carrigan, likewise. The pair of them got the ball enough.

You wouldn't have known Patty was captain, on the field.



Let's just say there's not a lot of confidence our leader of the pack (the best in the comp on paper) will make it to October.

Didn’t Smith have a testimonial like 3 years ago?

 

[Wolfie]

Sour grapes aside, the kid didn't land that contract for no good reason. He's the best forward talent in the comp. Whether he continues his trajectory, and earns it, is another story.


Why would they have been "run into the ground" if they were part of the comp's best pack? My question-mark on Haas is more about how rarely he broke the line in attack. Carrigan, likewise. The pair of them got the ball enough.

You wouldn't have known Patty was captain, on the field.



Let's just say there's not a lot of confidence our leader of the pack (the best in the comp on paper) will make it to October.

It's not rocket science really. Young forwards being forced to play too many minutes. It blunts their effectiveness.

 

[McHunt]

still wrong

Sorry mate, but this is totally sour grapes. I'm pissed off he left too, but I won't take away from why we wanted him to stay.

Didn’t Smith have a testimonial like 3 years ago?

I think that was more of a well earned circle jerk after MOTM performances in yet another premiership, state of origin series and Kangaroo tour. Also they had some excess jewellery laying around to give to his wife.

 

[BroncsFan]

Tommy is miles better as a right center than he is on the left. He is almost like a manufactured left center, but he's far more natural on the right, he was always a right sided player coming through. At the cowboys, he was playing on the right when he was doing really well there.

Still surprised Pearson hasnt kicked on. Before he broke his leg he was playing some terrific footy.

Yes but the competition is much higher on the right with Staggs, Coates and now Niu.

We dont seem to have any natural left centers, except perhaps Copley, but he may have started as a right center as well??

If Opacic came here he'd be below Staggs and then likely Coates (if Staggs left), however left center is wide open and Opacic can play that position... he's probably also smarter when it comes to transitioning to the left side and adapting his game

I daresay Opa may pop up at Parra's vacant left centre with Jennings being suspended

 

[Foordy]

Sorry mate, but this is totally sour grapes. I'm pissed off he left too, but I won't take away from why we wanted him to stay.

It's not sour grapes at all. he certainly has the potential to be the best in the game ... but he isn't there yet. and he may not get there if he just wants to play "comfortable" footy.

one or 2 good runs a game makes good highlight reels ... it doesn't put you in the elite company.