POST GAME Round 10 - Cowboys vs Broncos

[rnabokov]

I have, but I wonder if you have... because we must be talking about 2 different players.

Plenty of dominant halves have partner halves with limited kicking ability... Thurston, Cronk, Johnson, even DCE does almost all the kicking at the scum, although Foran is a capable kicker, and are still able to completely dominate teams with their kicking game.

In long distance and clearing, Hunt competes with them, but in attack, there's a galaxy of difference. I'm wiling to bet the Broncos are on the low end of the scale in net results from attacking kicks, be it earning repeat sets or tries.

Watching Marshall and Widdop kick this afternoon. So good. And then Pearce and Maloney, who also have Friend helping regularly.

That's what we need: Milford, Hunt and Macca/Kodi ALL with a regular kicking role, and one not just based on long kicks, but some more creative stuff.

What irks me is they have all kicked brilliantly ... but in relatively small doses. We need to have all 3 kicking, and kicking consistently and creatively, to be competitive at the top level of this comp.

 

[Porthoz]

Watching Marshall and Widdop kick this afternoon. So good. And then Pearce and Maloney, who also have Friend helping regularly.

That's what we need: Milford, Hunt and Macca/Kodi ALL with a regular kicking role, and one not just based on long kicks, but some more creative stuff.

What irks me is they have all kicked brilliantly ... but in relatively small doses. We need to have all 3 kicking, and kicking consistently and creatively, to be competitive at the top level of this comp.

I think that's greatly exaggerated. Kickers are very often under pressure from defenders in their faces in attack, but still manage to launch great kicks.

Every good kicker knows how much time and space he needs to be effective with his kicking, so the lack of help isn't the reason Hunt's kicking in attack is less than average. Of course, having a variety of options helps to give us more solutions attacking wise, and is never a bad thing. In fact, I actually think Milford has a better kicking game that Hunt in the last 20.

 

[Socnorb]

I do have to laugh at this place sometimes ...

a big reason people keep putting up for Taylor not coming into the side is defence ... but when someone questions Milford's defence, it changes to oh defence isn't as important for a half, so we can forgive a less than stellar game from someone. :laugh:

No people are skeptical because he has no form at this level, or until recently no form in the level below . Be patient Foordy.

 

[Socnorb]

The 1st one, most good defenders would have read the play, moved off the line and met Morgan on the front foot. Line defence is for mine, all about defending on the front foot, moving at the player, hitting them and not waiting for him to get on your outside and trying to drag them back. Out of interest, Morgan is the same weight as Milford, 6cms taller though.


In general, to answer your question (about Morgan's 1st try), most of the time, Ben Hunt, Pearce, DCE, Foran.


Who was responsible for their 2nd try by Ethan Lowe? Correct me if I am wrong, but that try - absolutely dreadful defence, was due to a misread by someone allowing Lowe a free passage to the line. It was truly horrible to watch how simple it was.


Anyway, I'm being picky, I admit that. I agree with most that on the whole, Milford's defence has been ok under difficult circumstances. At the same time it is now Round 10 and I would like to see as much improvement in his overall defence as his attacking play is evolving very very nicely. I am liking Milford at ⅝ despite my original view that he would have been best at FB.


For mine, halves win or lose matches less for their defence than play making, and kicking ... which raises other questions about not just Milford but our overall average kicking game.


However, I reckon the best teams generally have the best defensive halves.

The reality is the Cowboys completed at 90% + , if they continue with that stat they will win the comp.

 

[broncos4life]

The 1st one, most good defenders would have read the play, moved off the line and met Morgan on the front foot. Line defence is for mine, all about defending on the front foot, moving at the player, hitting them and not waiting for him to get on your outside and trying to drag them back. Out of interest, Morgan is the same weight as Milford, 6cms taller though.


In general, to answer your question (about Morgan's 1st try), most of the time, Ben Hunt, Pearce, DCE, Foran.


Who was responsible for their 2nd try by Ethan Lowe? Correct me if I am wrong, but that try - absolutely dreadful defence, was due to a misread by someone allowing Lowe a free passage to the line. It was truly horrible to watch how simple it was.


Anyway, I'm being picky, I admit that. I agree with most that on the whole, Milford's defence has been ok under difficult circumstances. At the same time it is now Round 10 and I would like to see as much improvement in his overall defence as his attacking play is evolving very very nicely. I am liking Milford at ⅝ despite my original view that he would have been best at FB.


For mine, halves win or lose matches less for their defence than play making, and kicking ... which raises other questions about not just Milford but our overall average kicking game.


However, I reckon the best teams generally have the best defensive halves.

The person that missed Ethan lowes try was Ben Hunt, you know, the guy you just said would have definitely made the tackle that Milford missed

 

[broncos4life]

I do have to laugh at this place sometimes ...

a big reason people keep putting up for Taylor not coming into the side is defence ... but when someone questions Milford's defence, it changes to oh defence isn't as important for a half, so we can forgive a less than stellar game from someone. :laugh:

Nope, most are against taylor being rushed in because he has played two fucking games of ISC (insert condescending laughing emoticon here)

 

[Cult]

Nope, most are against taylor being rushed in because he has played two fucking games of ISC (insert condescending laughing emoticon here)

That, and he defends like Luke Brooks when on the line. Anthony Milford at least stays on the player and doesn't bounce off.

 

[abashii]

Nope, most are against taylor being rushed in because he has played two fucking games of ISC (insert condescending laughing emoticon here)

Come on now. Milford missed a couple of tackles under heavy traffic and multiple repeat sets. The only real option we have is to move him to fullback and promote a young fella who has had a number of shoulder issues and never made it through a full season of NYC. Especially now he's got a whole 160 minutes experience tackling men in ISC, any coach who wouldn't throw this young player straight into first grade is obviously a senile hack with an agenda who plays favourites and whose favourites play.

 

[broncos4life]

Come on now. Milford missed a couple of tackles under heavy traffic and multiple repeat sets. The only real option we have is to move him to fullback and promote a young fella who has had a number of shoulder issues and never made it through a full season of NYC. Especially now he's got a whole 160 minutes experience tackling men in ISC, any coach who wouldn't throw this young player straight into first grade is obviously a senile hack with an agenda who plays favourites and whose favourites play.

Your right, your right sorry my bad... I'm getting so much wrong lately

 

[Foordy]

Nope, most are against taylor being rushed in because he has played two fucking games of ISC (insert condescending laughing emoticon here)

Many of the early comments were all about how he couldn't handle the defence of NRL. I clearly recall how last year people were loudly complaining about Griffin not selecting players like Taylor in first grade.

Since the NYC was introduced many players went straight from the NYC to the NRL without ever playing in the ISC.

Andrew McCullough is one such player.

I'm not 100% sure about Milford, but i'm pretty sure he never played ISC either.

Just because you have never played or have played very few games in the ISC doesn't mean you can't make the step up to first grade.

and before i get accused of having "agenda" (BHQ's favourite word) again, I don't see it as an agenda ... I see it as what I believe is best for the side, and what I believe will make our side stronger.

IMO, I think we need all of Boyd, Milford, Hunt AND Taylor in the side. I certainly don't think we should select him JUST because we may lose him, because i don't believe that is a reason to select someone, I think he should be selected because he offers us something we need in the side.

Taylor offers something that we lack in the spine. That is direction, organisation and a good kicking game. we have our ad lib players like Hunt and Milford, but no one to really lead the side around the park. build pressure will a consistently good kicking game. That's where Taylor comes in IMO.

Have a look at the really good sides of the last decade (the Storm, Manly and to a lesser extent Souths) and they all have certain things in common. That is direction from their halves. their halves are able to organise their sides to get the players running exactly where they want them to be. they all also are able to build pressure with their kicks. if they aren't in a position to score, they kick for the corners and force the opposition to do the hard yards or they put a well weighted kick into the in-goal and force a repeat set, so they can have another crack.

Don't get me wrong, Milford, Boyd and Hunt are all great players, but none of them offer that. they are more your ad-lib, off-the-cuff types of players ... great to have in your team, but you need somebody else ... you need that controlling, squeeze the life out of your opposition type player.

and you know what you'll never know if a player was ready until they play first grade... sometimes you just have to take that leap of faith in the quest to give yourself the strongest possible lineup.

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't mean to go so long in my post.

 

[Huge]

Your right, your right sorry my bad... I'm getting so much wrong lately

No, you're right, you're right...ha ha

 

[rnabokov]

I think that's greatly exaggerated. Kickers are very often under pressure from defenders in their faces in attack, but still manage to launch great kicks.

Every good kicker knows how much time and space he needs to be effective with his kicking, so the lack of help isn't the reason Hunt's kicking in attack is less than average. Of course, having a variety of options helps to give us more solutions attacking wise, and is never a bad thing. In fact, I actually think Milford has a better kicking game that Hunt in the last 20.

Is it exaggerated? I liked the way, just as one example, where Thurston, under pressure, passed the ball to Coote to slot the field goal - kicking option no. 2

 

[rnabokov]

The person that missed Ethan lowes try was Ben Hunt, you know, the guy you just said would have definitely made the tackle that Milford missed

Oh. I thought it was Milford leaving a gap for Lowe to run through

 

[broncos4life]

No, you're right, you're right...ha ha

I was talking about his right, as in his right to tell me I'm wrong

 

[Porthoz]

Is it exaggerated? I liked the way, just as one example, where Thurston, under pressure, passed the ball to Coote to slot the field goal - kicking option no. 2

Oh come on... Coote kicked twice over the whole game, one clearing kick and the field goal.

Thurston was well and truly the one who pinned us down. At the Cows, he really is the only go to guy in the kicking dept, unlike some teams where both halves share the kicking, like the Chooks or Dragons.

Melbourne is top of the table and like the Cows, only has one dominant half. Both Cronk and Thurston receive as much pressure as Hunt, but only seldom do they let it affect their kicking.
Hunt's long kicking game is fine, but in the last 30 meters or so, it just becomes inaccurate and predictable, and that has little to do with having an alternate kicker.

 

[rnabokov]

Oh come on... Coote kicked twice over the whole game, one clearing kick and the field goal.

Thurston was well and truly the one who pinned us down. At the Cows, he really is the only go to guy in the kicking dept, unlike some teams where both halves share the kicking, like the Chooks or Dragons.

Melbourne is top of the table and like the Cows, only has one dominant half. Both Cronk and Thurston receive as much pressure as Hunt, but only seldom do they let it affect their kicking.
Hunt's long kicking game is fine, but in the last 30 meters or so, it just becomes inaccurate and predictable, and that has little to do with having an alternate kicker.

All I am saying is that it's good to have another player who can kick well and a strategy where the 2nd kicker is positioned in the right place at the right time. Other than that, I agree with you.

As for the Storm, how important is Smith to their kicking game, and how important is his kicking game to their success? It's not just about halves.

A hooker who can kick regularly from dummy half is for mine a real weapon.

 

[Porthoz]

All I am saying is that it's good to have another player who can kick well and a strategy where the 2nd kicker is positioned in the right place at the right time. Other than that, I agree with you.

As for the Storm, how important is Smith to their kicking game, and how important is his kicking game to their success? It's not just about halves.

A hooker who can kick regularly from dummy half is for mine a real weapon.

Yes of course, having multiple options is always better and gives a team varied solutions. We should definitely try to use Macca and Milford more, but it won't make Hunt's attacking kicking any better...

 

[rnabokov]

Yes of course, having multiple options is always better and gives a team varied solutions. We should definitely try to use Macca and Milford more, but it won't make Hunt's attacking kicking any better...

That is an interesting point. Less pressure = more time to think. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Hunt seems to lack confidence when pressured to kick and loses composure to consider options, unlike his play making with ball in hand. More practice and more coaching to add variety to his kicking game perhaps. I am sure he has the skills. He just needs to use them.

However for mine, having Macca assume a much greater role in kicking, especially regular kicking from dummy half, as well as with Milford kicking more, being there so to speak for Hunt, would add immeasurably to our attacking prowess.