POST GAME [Round 11, 2023] Broncos vs Storm

[Sproj]

Reece Walsh clearly tucks his arm into his body. You're saying Olam has also tucked his arm into his body?

Yes. He comes in with the shoulder, hits him and then the arm comes up.

 

[Brocko]

Problem is Cobbo didn't stay down. If he did, they may have looked at the tackle.

Probably would have told him to get up and play it, but that's the only way they would have even looked.

 

[Midean]

Fmd these "shoulder charges" are just great shots and shouldn't even be illegal.
If you hit high in the process you go to the bin, otherwise it's a fantastic tackle, especially when its a smaller guy smashing a bigger guy trying to score.

 

[Big Pete]

Yes. He comes in with the shoulder, hits him and then the arm comes up.

But is his arm tucked into the body? Look at how the arm swings before Olam initiates contact.

Utter shambles as Xavier Coates is wrongfully denied one of the best tries of his career

The Storm winger outpaced three Broncos defenders to go from end-to-end in what should've been the game's final try. However, a falcon on Justin…

www.theroar.com.au

0:55 clear separation from the body and swings in with his arm.

 

[Cult]

But is his arm tucked into the body? Look at how the arm swings before Olam initiates contact.

Utter shambles as Xavier Coates is wrongfully denied one of the best tries of his career

The Storm winger outpaced three Broncos defenders to go from end-to-end in what should've been the game's final try. However, a falcon on Justin…

www.theroar.com.au

0:55 clear separation from the body and swings in with his arm.

No, it’s straightened so he could point the shoulder. It’s more of the actual shoulder charge they want stamped out of the game than the collision Walsh had in the corner. It had far more intent to hurt someone and was far more dangerous.

 

[Cult]

Doesn’t happen often but you’ve got this one wrong @Big Pete. Contact is made with the shoulder and only the shoulder and the arm is definitely tucked.

 

[Big Pete]

Alright let's dig into this deeper.

Looking at NRL.com

Shoulder Charge​

A shoulder charge is where the tackling player uses his shoulder and/or upper arm without, at the same time, using both of his arms to tackle or otherwise take hold of the opposing player. Arms obviously includes hands. The contact and force must be generated by the shoulder of the tackling player. Unless both arms are used or attempted to be used, then in any case where the shoulder and/or upper are used to make forceful contact, it will be a shoulder charge.


What are the key indicators of this charge?


A shoulder charge and the contact made must be forceful. The key question is whether the defender attempted to use both arms in attempting to wrap in the tackle. At times, another defender may impact the ability for the defender to use both arms in the tackle (squeezed out). At times, defending players may make incidental contact with an attacking player by attempting to brace or absorb an impact, as opposed to generating a forceful contact themselves.

What are the key elements and indicators of each offense?

There are currently eight different type of offences that can be charged under the NRL Judiciary Code. Each offence has particular elements and indicators which are detailed as part of the NRL Judiciary Code and what actually constitutes an offence.

www.nrl.com

If you click the link you'll see examples. The Funa hit on Whitehead is pretty much the Olam hit, so I'll put my hand up and admit I got it wrong.

So my view was out-dated on the incident, I'm still stuck on the Jack Wighton/Michael Ennis 2016 version.

 

[Big Pete]

View attachment 22207

Doesn’t happen often but you’ve got this one wrong @Big Pete. Contact is made with the shoulder and only the shoulder and the arm is definitely tucked.

If you watch the clip you'll see he swings in with his arm and there's clear separation of his right arm from his body. However that's an old loophole and if you compare it to the examples provided (Tevita Funa on Whitehead on the official link) it's one in the same.

 

[Sproj]

Alright let's dig into this deeper.

Looking at NRL.com

What are the key elements and indicators of each offense?

There are currently eight different type of offences that can be charged under the NRL Judiciary Code. Each offence has particular elements and indicators which are detailed as part of the NRL Judiciary Code and what actually constitutes an offence.

www.nrl.com

If you click the link you'll see examples. The Funa hit on Whitehead is pretty much the Olam hit, so I'll put my hand up and admit I got it wrong.

So my view was out-dated on the incident, I'm still stuck on the Jack Wighton/Michael Ennis 2016 version.

The reality is, I think both tackles are fine personally but I am apparently out of touch with what fans want but to the letter of the current law, if one of them is a shoulder charge, so is the other.

 

[Harry Sack]

View attachment 22207

Doesn’t happen often but you’ve got this one wrong @Big Pete. Contact is made with the shoulder and only the shoulder and the arm is definitely tucked.

**** I want to punch Munster in the face.

 

[Wolfie]

You guys are the only ones who think the Broncos were rorted. Flegglers bullshit after playing the ball was clearly an infringement and that was a no try. Olam should have been awarded a try for Walsh's clear shoulder charge. The sin bin is the only thing that went the wrong way IMO. Otherwise you guys were reffed to stay in that game. The scoreline flatters the Broncos. You should be concerned about that messaging from Kevvie. These young guns will drop their heads now they think the NRL is after them.

Can you get a refund?

 

[Big Pete]

While my argument about tucking the arm was wrong and out-dated, I think there's a couple of factors that saved Olam. Firstly, Walsh was able to maintain his feet and shrug the tackle off which suggests there wasn't enough force for it to be a shoulder charge. The other is that Olam maintains contact and does wrap arm around Walsh before Walsh is able to shrug him off.

I'd be seeking an explanation over it but I wouldn't consider it a smoking gun at this point. The Carrigan hip drop was clearly wrong and the NRL needs to move on from this crackdown.

 

[BroncsFan]

In certain situations, you'd almost take the no try and take the 10 minute sin-bin instead.

You mean like last night... how was Herbie guaranteed to score a try in that situation when Harry was right there to hit him and therefore right there to compete for the ball.

Hint:: because a penalty try was the least damaging call in the context of the game

 

[Big Pete]

You mean like last night... how was Herbie guaranteed to score a try in that situation when Harry was right there to hit him and therefore right there to compete for the ball.

Hint:: because a penalty try was the least damaging call in the context of the game

Back in the day that may have been the case but the standard of proof has become a lot more loose and takes a common sense approach. So Herbie being infront of Harry with the try line beckoning was enough for it to be a try.

Considering how the Broncos have gone against 12 players in the past, I was fine with the guaranteed points.

 

[BroncsFan]

Back in the day that may have been the case but the standard of proof has become a lot more loose and takes a common sense approach. So Herbie being infront of Harry with the try line beckoning was enough for it to be a try.

Considering how the Broncos have gone against 12 players in the past, I was fine with the guaranteed points.

I just wanted 10mins of play with Harry off the field!!

 

[Culhwch]

Gus should have got ten in the bin for repeating 'That's a try!' a thousand times like an absolute gronk.

Also I don't understand this 'denied the best try of his career' narrative that's floating around Coates. I mean, it was fine? Scoop, couple of fends, wins the race to the line. If not standard winger stuff, not particularly uncommon.

 

[Cult]

While my argument about tucking the arm was wrong and out-dated, I think there's a couple of factors that saved Olam. Firstly, Walsh was able to maintain his feet and shrug the tackle off which suggests there wasn't enough force for it to be a shoulder charge. The other is that Olam maintains contact and does wrap arm around Walsh before Walsh is able to shrug him off.

I'd be seeking an explanation over it but I wouldn't consider it a smoking gun at this point. The Carrigan hip drop was clearly wrong and the NRL needs to move on from this crackdown.

I just don’t agree that he tried to wrap an arm at all. The arm bounced out, it wasn’t an attempt to wrap at all

 

[Big Pete]

I just don’t agree that he tried to wrap an arm at all. The arm bounced out, it wasn’t an attempt to wrap at all

If you watch it through, especially on the hard camera, you can see he maintains contact and gets the rest of his arm involved which I think saves him. If he doesn't follow through he would have been gone.

Still, at least with the Walsh situation you can understand what was going through his mind. Here the game is over, why would you try and hit a player that hard in garbage time?