Round 11 - Bulldogs vs. Broncos - Post Match Discussion

[Big Pete]

Well, we could potentially have some variety, if Griffin allowed for it. I mean yeah, guys like Glenn and Gillett and even Reed are all fairly similar. But Glenn has shown he has a pretty good passing game though, and Gillett can offload. Hannant is a workhorse, but if Griffin allowed him to use his passing game like last year he could be a mini James Graham. Parker is also a workhorse, but provides offloads. Hala is a George Rose/Burgess type off the bench, he just needs better fitness. Someone who could hit hard in defence like Carroll used to would be pretty welcome.

It all comes down to how Hook is coaching them though IMO.

The players generally play that style.

eg.
Parker has the most offloads of anyone in the competition.
Parker, McGuire, Thaiday and Hannant tip it on when we go for our cross-field second man spreads.
Hala is playing that role to the best of his ability

The problem is, they don't play direct enough and draw the defence into the middle and that's difficult to do with the players we've got.

 

[mieko]

I think Hunt is settling in. He started to back himself a bit more in the 2nd half, just like last week. Showed some nice vision in his kick for Maranta, it's interesting to see a half who isn't afraid to take chances, even if it's early in the set. It shows he has vision, and as he plays he'll learn when to do it and when it's better not to.

Agree mate. Kicking game was very good, both long and cross field though a little work on his bombs and he'll have it all covered. The bombs just went a bit to far last night giving the catcher that extra second or two to set then counter but as always, great chase by Wallace and perfect tackling saved us from the starting the defence set on the opps 30.

 

[simmo77]

Nine pages of negatives ffs.

Hoffman is a demon on the wing. Hope he never gives it up even if he gets offered fb.
Away on a wet track being outmuscled by an enormous pack and we only lose by a try and goal kicking. Definitely not our best performance but jeez we werent that bad.

 

[Alec]

The problem is, they don't play direct enough and draw the defence into the middle and that's difficult to do with the players we've got.

Eh, I'm not sure about that. We do seem to favour going side to side quite often, but it once again seems like a coaching issue, not the forwards themselves.

 

[Bucking Beads]

 

[Big Pete]

Eh, I'm not sure about that. We do seem to favour going side to side quite often, but it once again seems like a coaching issue, not the forwards themselves.

How so?

 

[Browny]

Even worth listening to?

 

[Alec]

How so?

It's not the forwards fault if the halves are shifting it from side to side. And I can only assume the halves have been getting that drilled in during practice sessions by the coach.

 

[Big Pete]

Halves seem more inclined to call for a spread when the forwards fail to make an impression through the middle.

 

[Alec]

Halves seem more inclined to call for a spread when the forwards fail to make an impression through the middle.

Well, that's pretty ridiculous. You spread the ball when your forwards make an impression through the middle.

Our forwards generally make good yards IMO. I'd like to see Thaiday move into the back row and Hannant to start with McGuire when he come back just so we have more size up front to start with. If they start hitting a wall and failing to make too many metres, I'd like to see some short passing between them just for some variety. But that's once again a coaching tactic.

 

[Big Pete]

What's more ridiculous, persisting with runs through the middle which aren't making much of an impression or trying something different?

The Broncos forwards suck at getting it out of trouble or starting from a structured start. They excel when they're playing on the back of momentum...which is difficult to create unless you're getting quick play the balls which is difficult when you're getting dominated in the tackles.

It's not as easy as saying 'if they passed the ball more, they'd be right' - they do a fair bit of this already and it clearly isn't having the desired effect.

 

[Mr Fourex]

That's a lack of organisation. I have no idea who is supposed to be doing it out there, I assume it's either Wallace and McCullough. They are both capable of doing a good job of it, they've done it before, so I can only assume it's something to do with the coaching.

Exactly .....

 

[Dexter]

What's more ridiculous, persisting with runs through the middle which aren't making much of an impression or trying something different?

The Broncos forwards suck at getting it out of trouble or starting from a structured start. They excel when they're playing on the back of momentum...which is difficult to create unless you're getting quick play the balls which is difficult when you're getting dominated in the tackles.

It's not as easy as saying 'if they passed the ball more, they'd be right' - they do a fair bit of this already and it clearly isn't having the desired effect.

When I say pass the ball more, I mean tip on plays or hitting a second runner or playing off the the halves not going sideways in hope. Running one off the ruck or from dummy half is necessary sometimes when you have to take the tough runs but we do it way too much.
I lost count of the times Kasiano hit Hunt when attacking pushed him backwards then got a quick play the ball. The dogs still take one off hit ups but more often they are 2 passes wide while we just constantly aim back in behind the ruck.

 

[Big Pete]

The reason Hunt had to take the hit up was because Kahu failed to shut down Lafai, which forced our forwards to come back through the middle and cover Barba who ended up kicking it to Maranta's corner.

Not a good set of six and McCullough should have pushed Norman out of dummy half-sooner but it was the defensive display prior that made that happened.

 

[rnabokov]

When I say pass the ball more, I mean tip on plays or hitting a second runner or playing off the the halves not going sideways in hope. Running one off the ruck or from dummy half is necessary sometimes when you have to take the tough runs but we do it way too much.
I lost count of the times Kasiano hit Hunt when attacking pushed him backwards then got a quick play the ball. The dogs still take one off hit ups but more often they are 2 passes wide while we just constantly aim back in behind the ruck.

This.

And what Alec said about the short passing game. We did it last year when Hook obviously watched a tape of Hasler's coaching style. Then it just stopped and back to the one out garbage.

Our forwards get the ball standing too flat and are hit before they reach full speed.

Also, watch the Dogs last night and much of the time Ennis gave it two wide as much as one.

It's this bloody flat structure crap

As for getting monstered, it's also a question of our poor line speed. We let their big men get up a full head of steam.

What do you expect with 120kg of mean meat charging at you as you wait for him? Bulldozed, and they had 2 tries scored by props and one back rower running at speed off a short pass - something we used to do all the time when Lockyer played.

It's outrageously poor defensive structure to let props score tries like they did

 

[Big Pete]

When I say pass the ball more, I mean tip on plays or hitting a second runner or playing off the the halves not going sideways in hope. Running one off the ruck or from dummy half is necessary sometimes when you have to take the tough runs but we do it way too much.
I lost count of the times Kasiano hit Hunt when attacking pushed him backwards then got a quick play the ball. The dogs still take one off hit ups but more often they are 2 passes wide while we just constantly aim back in behind the ruck.

Sure, we should employ more of it but last night the boys couldn't have really done much more given how much defence they had to do. Defence was where they lost it and it should be the focus.

Throwing the odd tip on or cut-out here or there would be nice but it isn't going to solve all of our problems.

 

[rnabokov]

Titans Match 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWxe2gcNQf8 at 2 minutes in:

And this is how a dummy half (Hunt) > half (Prince) > back rower (Gillett) = try should do it. Every game. Both sides, in all thirds.

Not to mention the other superb tries we scored

 

[Mr Fourex]

It's this bloody flat structure crap

Yes ...it's Brisbane at their worst when they dissolve back into their shells and dish out this crap. One out flat footed running......

They've seen what happens when we stand deep. We score points and win........we get the momentum shift and we work very well on the back of that.

We just seem to go away from that depth far to often and far too quickly. There is a distinct lack of organisation and direction out on the field.

I know the jokes about RL player's intelligence, but ffs.....these blokes just don't seem to get it.