Round 11 - Bulldogs vs. Broncos - Post Match Discussion

[ningnangnong]

Our halves are shit thought - that opinion is not tripe, it's a legitimate fact and should be a major concern.

The folks in charge seem impervious to it though.

I don't think the rest of the team should get a pass just because the forwards weren't great. That's a cop out.

If you can't get into decent field position, why don't you get creative and try something instead? A 40/20, a chip through early in the tackle count, or an early kick to gain some territory... there's plenty of things the halves can do when the forwards aren't at the races. Ours don't have a creative bone in their body though, they always want to take the no risk option. We're a fucking boring team, which would be okay if we were winning, but we're not, so it's fucking shit and I'm sick of it.

 

[rnabokov]

Rnabokov, when you grab hold of a thought, you don't let go, do you? :laugh:

No halves can do a job without their forward pack dominating the opposition, that's just basic footy!
Good, crisp, quick service from your hooker goes a long way, as was illustrated yesterday in the difference between the Ennis grub and McCullough.

Yesterday we were mostly on the back foot due to a combination of factors, like dropped ball, critical ref decisions and our forward pack being monstered by theirs, but there wasn't much difference in the way both teams played. Neither was expansive before the 4th and 5th tackle, and the rest was a big slugfest, where the Dogs won, once again, because Ennis gave Macca a clinic.

Blaming the halves yesterday is just more of the biased blind "our halves are ****" tripe, seriously... :glare:

I am not blaming the halves individually for the loss. I am blaming the halves and hooker. I see them as a unit - 2/3 of the "spine" if you like.

I thought Wallace did really well with the little he had to work with. I thought Hunt did ok for a rookie first grade 5/8. I thought Macca was dreadful except for his defence.

At the same time, I agree with what NNN observes about our halves.

Their forwards monstered ours largely because Ennis gave them the opportunities to hit us harder than Macca did for ours; also, their back rowers were used so much better than ours, partly because of our shit game plan, and partly because their halves organize their edges so much better than ours.

Their forwards had the momentum given to them by a damn good hooker, and a better structure than ours, which in turn allowed their halves to use their edge forwards more effectively than we did(n't).

Yes, the refs were crap, but we lost the game mainly because of the negative chain reaction starting at the focal point of poor dummy half service and a stilted, outdated game plan.

 

[Porthoz]

Yeah, it is tripe actually. The halves did their job quite well yesterday, they even took hit-ups getting out of trouble! :scared:
When they were called upon in the dogs last third, we were threatening, when we weren't making enough meters, they were kicking well, especially Hunt was surprising yesterday in that aspect!

Everything you mentioned is exactly what you should never do on a pitch like yesterday's. The risks are too great, and taking those kinds of chances is playing into the opposition's hands, as it will more often than not, result in points against us, not in our favour.
There's a reason those are called "low percentage" plays, and should only be used as a last resort when there is serious catching up to do with the score!

I don't get this obsession people have with flashy plays... The best example of this is Sandow. Yes, he will sometimes do something freaky, but more often than not he just will cost his own team more points, because of yet another flashy play misfiring.

 

[rnabokov]

Yeah, it is tripe actually. The halves did their job quite well yesterday, they even took hit-ups getting out of trouble! :scared:
When they were called upon in the dogs last third, we were threatening, when we weren't making enough meters, they were kicking well, especially Hunt was surprising yesterday in that aspect!

Everything you mentioned is exactly what you should never do on a pitch like yesterday's. The risks are too great, and taking those kinds of chances is playing into the opposition's hands, as it will more often than not, result in points against us, not in our favour.
There's a reason those are called "low percentage" plays, and should only be used as a last resort when there is serious catching up to do with the score!

I don't get this obsession people have with flashy plays... The best example of this is Sandow. Yes, he will sometimes do something freaky, but more often than not he just will cost his own team more points, because of yet another flashy play misfiring.

Funny, seemed to work for them.

Let's agree to disagree

 

[broncos4life]

Our halves are **** thought - that opinion is not tripe, it's a legitimate fact and should be a major concern.

The folks in charge seem impervious to it though.

I don't think the rest of the team should get a pass just because the forwards weren't great. That's a cop out.

If you can't get into decent field position, why don't you get creative and try something instead? A 40/20, a chip through early in the tackle count, or an early kick to gain some territory... there's plenty of things the halves can do when the forwards aren't at the races. Ours don't have a creative bone in their body though, they always want to take the no risk option. We're a ****ing boring team, which would be okay if we were winning, but we're not, so it's ****ing **** and I'm sick of it.

I think the point that some people are trying to make is that yes our halves arent great (I mean no shit we have all known that for a while) but blaming them for the loss last night is crazy. Sure a 40/20 etc would be nice but the way our forward pack was monstered last night all it would have achieved would be a turn over most likely as the forward pack couldnt protect for shit

 

[rnabokov]

It's really like a game of chess. Lose control of the middle - lose the game

 

[ningnangnong]

Everything you mentioned is exactly what you should never do on a pitch like yesterday's. The risks are too great, and taking those kinds of chances is playing into the opposition's hands, as it will more often than not, result in points against us, not in our favour.
There's a reason those are called "low percentage" plays, and should only be used as a last resort when there is serious catching up to do with the score!

We were losing 18-4 at one point, surely you can justify taking a risk then? But no, let's just go through our percentage plays and be safe, and hope the Bulldogs make a mistake. Yawn.

I'm not asking for flashy plays, I'm asking for a bit more variety than either that second man play, or the kick into the corner. They seem to be our only two attacking plays, it's so fucking predictable.

I thought our kicking game last night was diabolical too. It was wet, thus you would think the kickers would aim to find some turf when kicking long, and hope for a bit of skid, but that only happened once from Wallace in the second half. Likewise, every time we put up a bomb, it was much too far ahead of our chasers, putting absolutely no pressure on the Bulldogs player to take the catch.

I swear our team is thick as shit sometimes.

How about Kasiano's try? Why the hell would you leave little Andrew McCullough isolated against one of the biggest players in the game? Utter stupidity. Thaiday was to his left and in no man's land... idiotic.

Griffin's mandate seems to be play safe, play structured and play low risk... but we can't even do that right.

I've always been a patient supporter, but I'm getting fed up now.

 

[ningnangnong]

I think the point that some people are trying to make is that yes our halves arent great (I mean no shit we have all known that for a while) but blaming them for the loss last night is crazy. Sure a 40/20 etc would be nice but the way our forward pack was monstered last night all it would have achieved would be a turn over most likely as the forward pack couldnt protect for shit

It's a team game, any loss gets blamed on the team in my book - the backs, the halves and the forwards... oh, and of course the coach. They all need to be held accountable.

 

[Porthoz]

I am not blaming the halves individually for the loss. I am blaming the halves and hooker. I see them as a unit - 2/3 of the "spine" if you like.

I thought Wallace did really well with the little he had to work with. I thought Hunt did ok for a rookie first grade 5/8. I thought Macca was dreadful except for his defence.

At the same time, I agree with what NNN observes about our halves.

Their forwards monstered ours largely because Ennis gave them the opportunities to hit us harder than Macca did for ours; also, their back rowers were used so much better than ours, partly because of our shit game plan, and partly because their halves organize their edges so much better than ours.

Their forwards had the momentum given to them by a damn good hooker, and a better structure than ours, which in turn allowed their halves to use their edge forwards more effectively than we did(n't).

Yes, the refs were crap, but we lost the game mainly because of the negative chain reaction starting at the focal point of poor dummy half service and a stilted, outdated game plan.

So the hooker didn't get us on the forefoot, the game plan is stilted, Wallace and Hunt did well with what the little they had to work with, but you're just gonna blame the halves anyway... as a package deal?

The second rowers actually ran good lines in attack this time. I though Glenn and Gillett, particularly the latter weren't bad in that aspect yesterday.
I don't think the game plan was too flawed either, as this is exactly the type of footy you want to play under those conditions.

We lacked execution, we lacked speed in the ruck, we lacked grunt, and we were screwed over by the refs. There isn't much I can blame the backline in its entirety for in this game, except for a couple of dropped balls by Kahu and Norman, and of course, the lack of try line instinct Maranta demonstrates game after game.

 

[rnabokov]

We lost because we did not control the middle - simple as that.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I think [MENTION=2221]Porthoz[/MENTION] is pretty close to the mark here. The difference in the end was one try and goal kicking. We were monstered by the Dogs forwards and hardly had any quality to ball to attack the Bulldogs line.

 

[Porthoz]

Funny, seemed to work for them.

Let's agree to disagree

What worked for them?
40/20's? Chip kicks? What exactly did the Dogs do that we didn't? And please don't say the second rowers on the edges, because there was one big difference in that... defence and ruck speed. Nothing, but absolutely NOTHING to do with the halves creativity or flashy stuff.

Ning, you need to watch the game again mate.
Our kicking game was actually pretty good, but we were doing it all from our half of the field, because we weren't getting on the front foot, and we weren't bad at all in the last third. We just didn't get there often enough and despite that, we were unlucky/dumb not to score a couple more tries.

 

[rnabokov]

What worked for them?
40/20's? Chip kicks? What exactly did the Dogs do that we didn't? And please don't say the second rowers on the edges, because there was one big difference in that... defence and ruck speed. Nothing, but absolutely NOTHING to do with the halves creativity or flashy stuff.

Ning, you need to watch the game again mate.
Our kicking game was actually pretty good, but we were doing it all from our half of the field, because we weren't getting on the front foot, and we weren't bad at all in the last third. We just didn't get there often enough and despite that, we were unlucky/dumb not to score a couple more tries.

They scored more tries

 

[Mr Fourex]

Yeah, it is tripe actually. The halves did their job quite well yesterday, they even took hit-ups getting out of trouble! :scared:

Nahh...it's not actually. Since when is it the halves job to run hit ups to get us out of trouble? Clue .....?

It's not.

What is their job, is to organise the forwards/ other runners to get in position to take the hit ups. Organise the team to put them in the best field position to make the attacking play. Neither of our halves did that well last night.

Case in point, the last play of the game in which we scored.......prior to that Wallace takes a hit up. All that shows is desperation, desperation because he has nothing else to offer. Funnily enough, as the play ensues ....space (yes, some of the players were involved in the blue, but they primarily came in from the left side) is found out to the right where Wallace should have been passing the ball instead of pretending he is a front rower.

It's dumb plays like this that Wallace is guilty of....McC too. They are killing us !!!

 

[Kaz]

All I want apart from a great win, is for the players to wrap the fucking ball up in tackles.

I get sick & tired of screaming the the TV, wrap the ball up.

 

[Porthoz]

They scored more tries

So it was Parker's and Maranta fault, for their inability to respectively score goals and find the try line. :winky:

 

[Porthoz]

Nahh...it's not actually. Since when is it the halves job to run hit ups to get us out of trouble? Clue .....?

It's not.

What is their job, is to organise the forwards/ other runners to get in position to take the hit ups. Organise the team to put them in the best field position to make the attacking play. Neither of our halves did that well last night.

Case in point, the last play of the game in which we scored.......prior to that Wallace takes a hit up. All that shows is desperation, desperation because he has nothing else to offer. Funnily enough, as the play ensues ....space (yes, some of the players were involved in the blue, but they primarily came in from the left side) is found out to the right where Wallace should have been passing the ball instead of pretending he is a front rower.

It's dumb plays like this that Wallace is guilty of....McC too. They are killing us !!!

The bold part is only true when the team is in an attacking position, not when coming out of trouble.
The halves didn't take hit-ups because it's their job, but because there was literally no one else around to do it.
That goes for the last play as well, Wallace had literally no one to pass the ball to and was surrounded by Dogs players, which is the reason why he took the hit-up, not the other way around. That's just plain dishonest from you.

 

[broncos4life]

All I want apart from a great win, is for the players to wrap the ****ing ball up in tackles.

I get sick & tired of screaming the the TV, wrap the ball up.

Problem is these days with the **** head refs if you try to wrap the ball up, when some idiot like Eastwood or fatiano drop the ball it's labelled a strip. The refs are basically inviting teams to off load at will cos if you lose the ball 9 times out of ten the ref will restart the tackle count for you