Round 12 - Storm vs Broncos - Post Match Discussion

[Porthoz]

It often occurs to me that maybe we should try Norman at fullback with Hoffman on the wing and Hunt in the halves. Still use Hoffman as a kick return fullback and in defense, but have Hoffman on the wing in attack with Norman at fullback. I'd be loathed to mess with the halves combination though, but the qualities that Norman possesses, if used off the back of two halves (Hunt and Wallace) and in support, strike me as being quite interesting.

Not necessarily saying that it should happen either, just that I think it's an interesting idea.

Left field, but interesting indeed. Would be harsh to "demote" Hoffy to the wing though...

 

[Steve Ward]

Unless the storm drop their level about six notches, nobody's beating them in sept/oct... Least of all brisbane

Well the sharks did with out Gal. So the broncos can in sept/oct.
Remember 06 we got them then as well

 

[Steve]

What a bludger of a night. IMO we lost it in the last 5 mins of the first half. The lack of intensity we showed in the lead up to both of those tries was unacceptable. Really at 10 points behind the game was gone.

Our passing game was just too slow. Wallace and Co were monstered nearly every time as they went to pass or kick the ball. You've got to be crisp when playing the Storm as they rush the opposition pretty effectively.

Great games from Hannant and Gillett. Thought Wallace tried hard but really he was no match for the structured defence. Reed had a deadset shocker and has been on the slide for the last couple of weeks.

Thank Christ we've got Newcastle next week - should win that one. Are we in an identical position to this time last season? I recall we lost three in a row around this time but came out of the Origin period in good form. Hopefully history repeats itself.

 

[rnabokov]

Yeah, agree with most of this. Our attack is stiffled, and I wonder how much emphasis is put into the little things that make the difference. I understand our defense was the highest priority after the Henjak disaster, but now is really the time to start focusing on our attack, and utilise the talent we have, although we definitely need to get our ruck defense together as well.

Our line is often too flat in attack, and too many times do I see players either get in the way of the player carrying the ball, or over- running him.
Hoffman has the speed and hands to be a very good support fullback in attack, but it's almost like no work is put into teaching him to pace himself and get that extra metre or extra second that will make all the difference in a sweeping play. He often seems to run into a defensive player before he can do anything with the ball.

Gillett should be used in the same way Glenn Stewart is used at Manly, and Hodges definitely needs to get the ball in space. This is all stuff that can be practised at training.

Not too sure about Hunt's role in this though, I don't think we can afford to have him in the second row and we need Macca to play 80 minutes.

I just hope we emulate the Brisbane Roar, who started great, then had a shocking midseason, only to come back strong at the business end and take it all! :rockon:

Oh yes. Hook has done great things with the defence, but he seems to favour this flat attack style with the 9 just feeding a one-out running forward. Thing is, watching Macca/Hunt do it, and then watching Smith, it's chalk n cheese. Smith gives himself time and space before he passes, and there's always support right along the line. We don't. It's just too much one out stuff.

Thaiday seems to just run the ball and die with it.

Gillett (and Hodges) could be so dangerous if given room to move.

As well, against the top teams, we are showing a distinct lack of shape in attack and ruck defence. The top sides are really exposing how much we miss Locky's organisational work.

... and I wish Norman would stop bloody dying with the ball so much, and focus more on setting something up. He has shown he can do it, but fails under pressure, and what we are showing at the moment is that we tend to fall apart under real, sustained pressure.

 

[Mister Wright]

Wow talk about overreaction! If we had of converted our early chances we would have had two early tries, we looked really good in the first 20 minutes. You have to take your chances against the Storm, we didn't and they capitalized. Without our best players we were going to struggle when behind. There were some poor players tonight, but there were some who lifted their game like Gillett & McCullough.

We're going to be much better against the Knights & I can see us putting on a big score.

 

[john1420]

It often occurs to me that maybe we should try Norman at fullback with Hoffman on the wing and Hunt in the halves. Still use Hoffman as a kick return fullback and in defense, but have Hoffman on the wing in attack with Norman at fullback. I'd be loathed to mess with the halves combination though, but the qualities that Norman possesses, if used off the back of two halves (Hunt and Wallace) and in support, strike me as being quite interesting.

Not necessarily saying that it should happen either, just that I think it's an interesting idea.

I was thinking the same thing about Hoff on the wing - if his only strength is the ball return, he can d that from wing happily

And it also utilises Hunt better and fixes the problem of who comes on to the wing next year when Beale leaves

I know Yow Yeh will return but I am viewing Copley as a solid fill in winger for injuries, not the long term option

 

[rnabokov]

Wow talk about overreaction! If we had of converted our early chances we would have had two early tries, we looked really good in the first 20 minutes. You have to take your chances against the Storm, we didn't and they capitalized. Without our best players we were going to struggle when behind. There were some poor players tonight, but there were some who lifted their game like Gillett & McCullough.

We're going to be much better against the Knights & I can see us putting on a big score.

I don't think it's an over reaction at all. I am looking not just that we lost v Storm, but we are failing against the sides who will be in the finals.

I doubt very much tat Civo, Hodges or Thaiday would have made any difference. It's the way the team isn't creating space, and scoring points that's the issue.

And it's not that we lost - it's how we are losing, which is mainly because we are using what is turning out to be an ineffective attack, and failing under pressure. We are not scoring points when it matters, and that is an issue of team shape and structure rather than how any one player performs.

I don't care if we put on a big score against the Kniggots. I care about either beating, or just, just losing against the top sides. The games against the Dogs, Sharks, Rabbits (yes, Rabbits) and Cowboys will really show what we are made of. Those sides are all improving at a rate of knots, aside from Manly and the Storm who will be there at the end.

As for Hoffman on the wing, when I suggested that I was flamed big time. Thing is, Hoffman IS playing like a winger and not a full back.

Hook has done wonders to our defence, mostly, now it's time to work on getting some creativity in attack, and using the huge talents in this side.

 

[Jeba]

If you want a better ball playing fullback I think Beale is the best option. I wouldn't be against it but I think overall Hoffman is the better fullback.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Won't happen.

 

[Mister Wright]

I don't think it's an over reaction at all. I am looking not just that we lost v Storm, but we are failing against the sides who will be in the finals.

I doubt very much tat Civo, Hodges or Thaiday would have made any difference. It's the way the team isn't creating space, and scoring points that's the issue.

And it's not that we lost - it's how we are losing, which is mainly because we are using what is turning out to be an ineffective attack, and failing under pressure. We are not scoring points when it matters, and that is an issue of team shape and structure rather than how any one player performs.

I don't care if we put on a big score against the Kniggots. I care about either beating, or just, just losing against the top sides. The games against the Dogs, Sharks, Rabbits (yes, Rabbits) and Cowboys will really show what we are made of. Those sides are all improving at a rate of knots, aside from Manly and the Storm who will be there at the end.

As for Hoffman on the wing, when I suggested that I was flamed big time. Thing is, Hoffman IS playing like a winger and not a full back.

Hook has done wonders to our defence, mostly, now it's time to work on getting some creativity in attack, and using the huge talents in this side.

It's a bit too harsh to be critisisng a team that has won 6 in a row and then lost 3 in a row with two of those losses being a last minute try and without 3 of our best players. If we lose 3 in a row with all our players in rounds 20-22 then there's cause for concern. Only 4 weeks ago people were praising Hoffman as the best fullback we've had since Lockyer and Wallace was our saviour. It's funny how that's all turned around after one loss to a full strength Storm in a much we were very competitive in for 35 mins. Like I said in my previous post, if we convert those chances in the first 12 minutes we could have a very different post match discussion thread.

 

[Crazy Sam]

The best thing about this game was how much better the maroon socks made the yellow uniform look.

I think we're at the point where any game against Melbourne in Melbourne is a write off and if we get close or even win then that is a bonus.

 

[ningnangnong]

The best thing about this game was how much better the maroon socks made the yellow uniform look.

Word!

Was it just me or did the yellow look a little more gold last night? Perhaps that was an illusion created by the socks!

 

[Crazy Sam]

Don't think so... but it's so nice to watch NRL games where the teams aren't wearing blue/black/red/white (which seems to be the majority of teams). That Storm jersey last night looked great as well.

 

[rnabokov]

It's a bit too harsh to be critisisng a team that has won 6 in a row and then lost 3 in a row with two of those losses being a last minute try and without 3 of our best players. If we lose 3 in a row with all our players in rounds 20-22 then there's cause for concern. Only 4 weeks ago people were praising Hoffman as the best fullback we've had since Lockyer and Wallace was our saviour. It's funny how that's all turned around after one loss to a full strength Storm in a much we were very competitive in for 35 mins. Like I said in my previous post, if we convert those chances in the first 12 minutes we could have a very different post match discussion thread.

I agree with what you (and Rocky) say but only up to a point. And it's refreshing that Hook didn't say after the match "the effort was there". In fact, he said precisely the opposite - and he's totally correct. The defence just slacked off against the Storm's predictable but very well executed pet plays, and for say 70 mins, the attack was an uncoordinated, jumbled mess in the face of a relentless 80 minute defensive machine.

I am not concerned we lost to the Storm. What concerns me is that after 12 rounds, I am not seeing anything which persuades me we have the attacking potential to go blow for blow with the top teams. That has 2 elements: consistent defensive discipline for 80 minutes, and our lack of creative play making, and play makers.

Gillett and Hodges are huge attacking weapons. We need to use them better and smarter.

 

[Alec]

I have two solutions, and both involve Ben Hunt. Firstly, having him come on as an extra half. Yes, that would mean we'd only have 4 forwards out there. But Melbourne does the same, and their forward pack is one of the worst in the competition. I guess they have Cam Smith though, who can make any forward pack look better than it actually is when he's at his best.

Other solution, just as risky, would be to swap Hunt and Wallace. Hunt clearly has way superior vision than Wallace, he just lacks the execution. Wallace can come in at hooker, and do what he does best, organise the forwards. I actually believe that our 2 best games this year were when Wallace was out.

Both ideas are risky, and way out there, and it's still far from panic time (we've only really played badly once this year), but I'm just worried about how we are going to put points on in the finals.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Why are we looking at moving our fullback to the wing or our fullback to bench hooker?? Some pretty crazy suggestions coming through at the minute IMO.

 

[Jeba]

I have two solutions, and both involve Ben Hunt. Firstly, having him come on as an extra half. Yes, that would mean we'd only have 4 forwards out there. But Melbourne does the same, and their forward pack is one of the worst in the competition. I guess they have Cam Smith though, who can make any forward pack look better than it actually is when he's at his best.

Other solution, just as risky, would be to swap Hunt and Wallace. Hunt clearly has way superior vision than Wallace, he just lacks the execution. Wallace can come in at hooker, and do what he does best, organise the forwards. I actually believe that our 2 best games this year were when Wallace was out.

Both ideas are risky, and way out there, and it's still far from panic time (we've only really played badly once this year), but I'm just worried about how we are going to put points on in the finals.

Geez I wish I was still an admin so I could ban you. Seriously 1 loss when we had a depleted side and you're making stupid suggestions about positional changes. In fact I don't recall you ever commenting to prominently after we win a game.

 

[Alec]

Geez I wish I was still an admin so I could ban you. Seriously 1 loss when we had a depleted side and you're making stupid suggestions about positional changes. In fact I don't recall you ever commenting to prominently after we win a game.

Must be why you are not an admin anymore. Banning someone for posting their opinion, oh no!