POST GAME Round 14 - Eels vs Broncos

[holdzy]

It sucks being a fan this season because you cant really be sure we're moving in the right direction.

In seasons past where we've made the 8 but had a decent squad we've at least been able to console ourselves with the idea that with one or two tweaks we could've been more of a threat.

This year just feels like a write off and it's only June and we only have tenuous hope that next season will be better.

In particular what is difficult at the moment as a Broncos fan is we know our culture is gone. We are hopefully in the process of making a new one, but the Broncos as we knew it for 30 years, with particular people and a certain ethos has ended. It's new, it's tough. It will take time.

 

[WASSHHH]

B4L is exactly right. We're free to feel disappointment about how the team is performing, but comments like "it is hard to be a Broncos fan" just wreaks of entitlement. Fans of other clubs have endured this situation for years, even decades. Just because we had it so good for the first half the Broncos' existence doesn't mean we are somehow guaranteed it forever. Or we somehow deserve more success than the fans of other teams.

I’m sorry, and I’m honestly not trying to be offensive, but your post smacks of modern society’s fascination with mollycoddling.

As far as I am concerned, entitlement has nothing to do with it. I think it’s a winning attitude. You start making excuses for why it’s OK to underperform and you end up where we are now: a team with a weak attitude that stems from an even weaker culture that has cultivated itself over the last 5 to 10 years.

Sure, no one can win every game and I don’t think anyone is even suggesting this. But performances, both good and bad, are contagious.

Bellamy, for all his warts, has a real killer instinct and would never suffer fools who don’t perform the same way. I bet he also doesn’t care what fans of other teams have endured. Indeed, he probably revels in their failure.

It’s also pertinent to note, and no coincidence either, that his club are ultra successful even after losing superstar after superstar after superstar.

Losing just one of the players he’s lost over the last 5 years would just about cripple most other clubs (like it did us when we lost Langer and then Lockyer), and we’ve all sat by waiting for them to fail as a result. But they just keep on keeping on.

We can make all the jokes we like about cheating and wrestling and so on; but credit has to be given to the incredibly strong culture that the Storm have built over 20 odd years.

We use to have it, but we simply don’t anymore.

Anyway. rant over.

 

[holdzy]

I’m sorry, and I’m honestly not trying to be offensive, but your post smacks of modern society’s fascination with mollycoddling.

As far as I am concerned, entitlement has nothing to do with it. I think it’s a winning attitude. You start making excuses for why it’s OK to underperform and you end up where we are now: a team with a weak attitude that stems from an even weaker culture that has cultivated itself over the last 5 to 10 years.

Sure, no one can win every game and I don’t think anyone is even suggesting this. But performances, both good and bad, are contagious.

Bellamy, for all his warts, has a real killer instinct and would never suffer fools who don’t perform the same way. I bet he also doesn’t care what fans of other teams have endured. Indeed, he probably revels in their failure.

It’s also pertinent to note, and no coincidence either, that his club are ultra successful even after losing superstar after superstar after superstar.

Losing just one of the players he’s lost over the last 5 years would just about cripple most other clubs (like it did us when we lost Langer and then Lockyer), and we’ve all sat by waiting for them to fail as a result. But they just keep on keeping on.

We can make all the jokes we like about cheating and wrestling and so on; but credit has to be given to the incredibly strong culture that the Storm have built over 20 odd years.

We use to have it, but we simply don’t anymore.

Anyway. rant over.

Yeah but when they lose Smith I think they will suffer a similar fate. Smith holds that place together, always has.

 

[broncos4life]

This is not the first time, in a very uppity fashion, you’ve made it out like you’re a true fan whilst others aren’t.

I just want to know, did you read my post, and if so, did you understand it?

It’s quite clear the answer to at least one of those questions is no.

I’d be willing to bet the vast majority of people on here don’t care if we lose so long as we lose because we were beaten by a better team. But for a very long time now, that hasn’t been the case. Quite simply, we are an incredibly weak team mentally. If things go our way, we can look great. But when they don’t, you better get ready to watch some terrible football, because we absolutely shatter under pressure.

But hey, if you enjoy watching a team underperform, then I suggest you put on that “#1 Fan” giant novelty hand that you’ve bestowed upon yourself and park yourself in front of back-to-back, all day replays of our insipid performances over the last 5 years or so.

Excuse me if I don’t come watch it with you though, as you’ve made it pretty clear that my questioning the performance and mental fortitude of this team means I’m not an “actual fan” like you are.

Yeah that wasn't my point at all, but you would have got some likes from your intentional 'missing the point' so full credit to you.

I am as critical of the team as anyone, the only thing I am sick of is the pro-Bennett/Seibold bullshit. This team has played like this for years. There may be different scorelines in each era but the lack of motivation, not turning up has been a feature of this group. There is something wrong with a core bunch of players or the culture of the club itself, I don't know what it is but it seems Bennett couldn't figure it out and so far neither can Seibold.

Voice your displeasure all you want, but comments like 'it is hard to be a fan' are entitled bullshit and I have called them out before (as you point out) and will continue to.

 

[mrslong]

Voice your displeasure all you want, but comments like 'it is hard to be a fan' are entitled bullshit and I have called them out before (as you point out) and will continue to.

BUT.... it is hard to be a fan when the team doesn't turn up and plays like trash and the captain is gutless or broken. It's certainly NOT easy at the moment.

 

[Morkel]

I’m sorry, and I’m honestly not trying to be offensive, but your post smacks of modern society’s fascination with mollycoddling.

As far as I am concerned, entitlement has nothing to do with it. I think it’s a winning attitude. You start making excuses for why it’s OK to underperform and you end up where we are now: a team with a weak attitude that stems from an even weaker culture that has cultivated itself over the last 5 to 10 years.

Sure, no one can win every game and I don’t think anyone is even suggesting this. But performances, both good and bad, are contagious.

Bellamy, for all his warts, has a real killer instinct and would never suffer fools who don’t perform the same way. I bet he also doesn’t care what fans of other teams have endured. Indeed, he probably revels in their failure.

It’s also pertinent to note, and no coincidence either, that his club are ultra successful even after losing superstar after superstar after superstar.

Losing just one of the players he’s lost over the last 5 years would just about cripple most other clubs (like it did us when we lost Langer and then Lockyer), and we’ve all sat by waiting for them to fail as a result. But they just keep on keeping on.

We can make all the jokes we like about cheating and wrestling and so on; but credit has to be given to the incredibly strong culture that the Storm have built over 20 odd years.

We use to have it, but we simply don’t anymore.

Anyway. rant over.

I'm not saying don't be disappointed. I'm as pissed off, frustrated, and devoid of answers as anyone on here.

But why does the $X you pay towards the Broncos mean you deserve more success than the $X a fan of a different club enjoys? Like B4L said, do you only support them because they were successful and because they supposedly have advantages over other clubs?

 

[NSW stables]

Cop out. We were never this bad under Bennett.

Seibold has serious questions over his ability right now and he's not doing much to answer them.

We have 100% went backwards at an alarming rate since Seibold took over. Seibold has won 7 of his last 20 games as a head coach.

It's not the playing group, it's the coaching. Seibold moved Kahu and McGuire on in a hurry, then sacked Roberts, moved on Niko, it was his call to sack all these experienced players and leave us with no depth and low on experience.

He better hope to turn this the **** around. When he takes over from the best coach we've ever had, he better fucking actually deliver. He took the huge money 5 year deal, he best not screw over the fans in the process.

I'm happy to give him until next year but I would want to hear some recruitment news soon. The only signing he's made has been... Kennar? He's let go of a bunch of players without signing anyone. He better have a plan. I hope so anyway.

Well u look at his team at souths last year. He did not recruit it or develop it, he inherited it. He inheritted gritty forwards (run and hit hard, go for gaps and quck play the balls), organising half with great kicking game, running half that does things 100 miles and hour, rep centres, athletic wingers and speed to burn at the back. His only real revelation was cook (who was already in the team).

He has not inherited a premiership capable team here and has to show he can make one.

Enough gps data, stats and powerpoint presentations, lets get the team gelling and some wins

 

[tommy]

I'm not saying don't be disappointed. I'm as pissed off, frustrated, and devoid of answers as anyone on here.

But why does the $X you pay towards the Broncos mean you deserve more success than the $X a fan of a different club enjoys? Like B4L said, do you only support them because they were successful and because they supposedly have advantages over other clubs?

It's not about the success. It's about the players actually having a go. I find it hard to care as much when certain players in leadership positions obviously don't.

 

[NSW stables]

It was amazing how quickly the game unfolded for the Broncos. Believe it or not, they actually started well. There was a positive early sign where Milford ran the ball from dummy half, drew his team a penalty and Brisbane were marching along inside the Eels half. They played the type of football you'd want to see that line-up play. They went two passes right to Haas who steamed onto the ball, then went long ball to Fifita charging at Moses and had the Eels on the back-foot. The Broncos should have got better result of that set, but the botched pass from dummy half disrupted Milford and gave Gutherson more than enough time to cover the kick.

Then within moments, Fifita gets himself in an awkward position and comes reeling out of a tackle, Oates drops a ball and the side is in disarray. It isn't long before both Fifita and Gillet come off and two bench players come on and by the time we get the starting side back on the field it's 20-0, soon to be 26-0 when Oates hands them a try with an embarrassing effort.

The biggest issue is the defence. Players working as a unit to wrap up the ball, win the ruck and limit the opposition's opportunities. It starts with the tackle where they're not getting off the line quick enough and they're not working together effectively in the tackle. The first player in the tackle has to lock up the ball, others have to join into take the legs and help turtle the player on the ground. That isn't happening and worse, they're not covering for one another. If you watch the Jennings try, Gutherson has an age to run the ball past the advantage line because Haas is too slow to force the play. Haas found himself in a tough predicament having to defend on the right edge since Pangai Jr was involved in the previous tackle and Gillett was off, but those are the efforts you have to make at this level, it's what the best teams do.

The other problem is their sets coming out of trouble. I thought this was the one area where Seibold would address right away but it's still a work in progress. Brisbane actually started the better of the two teams, until this one set. I hate to pick on him because he gets blamed for everything, but Darius set the tone from the first play. Watch the 4th minute again, when Darius receives the ball, he should see that the pass isn't on and that Jennings has Isaako well and truly covered. Isaako wasn't going to centre the ball more effectively than him and if Darbs had have gunned it, he would have got the ball over the 20m mark easily, maybe even over the 30 and gotten a quick play the ball against a choppy Eels defensive line. Instead he goes long ball, the Eels read it, three gang up on Isaako and the Broncos are on the back-foot just trying to get onside. It gets worse from there, O'Sullivan holds a pass up for Oates who gets set upon by a rushing Eels line and actually knocks the ball on but gets away with it. Then later in the set, Pangai Jr tips it on for Fifita who has plenty of room ahead of him, but instead he tips it on again to Staggs who has no support outside of him and has less room to work in then Fifita. It was a dog's breakfast and everybody involved needs to have their issues pointed out. Even Shibasaki's run on play two where he tried to go behind the markers was the wrong type of run at that point in that game.

Unfortunately it became the story of the night for the Broncos. They didn't throw up any shapes at the Eels inside their line, it became easy for the Eels defensive line to gang up and by the time the Broncos threw something at the Eels, they couldn't capitilise on the opportunity. Outside of not having the shapes in place, the issue is that the wrong players are receiving the football. Unless you're actually making significant headway, you can't keep attacking the same part of the field. Last night there were too many instances of one out rucks involving Lodge, Haas, Carrigan etc. where the only hint of deception was whether Lodge was going to pass it. Lodge cannot be the key playmaker of these sets, Milford, O'Sullivan and Boyd have to step up and put themselves in positions where they can work off of a Lodge play the ball. You also have to work different parts of the field. If you're getting beaten in the middle, then take it down a fringe, keep running traffic at their weakest defender and work off the back of it.

5 & 8 and the season is in tatters. Brisbane can make slight alterations to their line-up, but there's no secret ingredient waiting in reserves, the team can only hope to be better drilled. With the Broncos this season, it is what it is and while I don't want to get too far ahead of myself and start casting doom and gloom on the 2020 season, the Broncos have to take stock of their weaknesses and look to improve upon them.

Spot on. It is amazing how controlling the ruck and tackle can make a different team. Turtling a player, gives time for your defensive line to set and then rush up and put pressure on (storm do this all the time to us).

Find your front in attack and quick play the balls opens the field up (again something storm, souths and roosters do).

But as many have said, we gather in a bunch and do one up hit ups which gives the opportunity to compress their defence and perform gang tackles. Even if we spread out on those hit up sets would mean the opposition could compress their line and do the gang tackles.

These dont take great skill to do, just a friggin effort.

 

[WASSHHH]

I'm not saying don't be disappointed. I'm as pissed off, frustrated, and devoid of answers as anyone on here.

But why does the $X you pay towards the Broncos mean you deserve more success than the $X a fan of a different club enjoys? Like B4L said, do you only support them because they were successful and because they supposedly have advantages over other clubs?

I know it’s not your main point and is most likely just an example to get your point across, but no where did I say anything about my money going to support this club and it being more important than the money other fans pay to support their club.

So whilst that certainly supports your point, it isn’t particularly relevant to the conversation we’re having.

That said, I do, however, absolutely think that players of every sporting club owe their fans a level of commitment that aligns with their fans sacrificing their hard earned money to support their club. If that’s entitled, well colour me entitled!

I tell you what I absolutely don’t want to see though. Players from any team laughing, joking and smiling with the opposition straight after a loss and in particular, one as pathetic as our recent efforts. I was brought up to respect the opposition but treat them like your enemy. They aren’t your mates, they are standing between you and (what should be anyway) your goal. Tomorrow they can be your mate again, but not immediately after they’ve just embarrassed you in public.

Finally, it would be hyperbole for me to say I couldn’t care if we didn’t win another game so long as we put in - but we all know that’s not true, because we all want to win.

But as others have said, I could absolutely accept the losses a lot better if our team actually seemed to care. But too often, I just don’t think they do. That, or they have a very funny way of showing it.

And to answer your question; I support the Broncos because I was born in CQ a few years before the Broncos came to exist. When they came along and I was old enough to start following sport, they were my team and have been ever since.

I truly hope that qualifies me as an actual fan according to the president, treasurer and secretary of the Broncos Fan Club for Actual Fans Only - B4L.

 

[broncos4life]

I know it’s not your main point and is most likely just an example to get your point across, but no where did I say anything about my money going to support this club and it being more important than the money other fans pay to support their club.

So whilst that certainly supports your point, it isn’t particularly relevant to the conversation we’re having.

That said, I do, however, absolutely think that players of every sporting club owe their fans a level of commitment that aligns with their fans sacrificing their hard earned money to support their club. If that’s entitled, well colour me entitled!

I tell you what I absolutely don’t want to see though. Players from any team laughing, joking and smiling with the opposition straight after a loss and in particular, one as pathetic as our recent efforts. I was brought up to respect the opposition but treat them like your enemy. They aren’t your mates, they are standing between you and (what should be anyway) your goal. Tomorrow they can be your mate again, but not immediately after they’ve just embarrassed you in public.

Finally, it would be hyperbole for me to say I couldn’t care if we didn’t win another game so long as we put in - but we all know that’s not true, because we all want to win.

But as others have said, I could absolutely accept the losses a lot better if our team actually seemed to care. But too often, I just don’t think they do. That, or they have a very funny way of showing it.

And to answer your question; I support the Broncos because I was born in CQ a few years before the Broncos came to exist. When they came along and I was old enough to start following sport, they were my team and have been ever since.

I truly hope that qualifies me as an actual fan according to the president, treasurer and secretary of the Broncos Fan Club for Actual Fans Only - B4L.

This is complete bullshit. I have qualified my statement and even someone else has tried to point it out, yet you won't take that into consideration.

I'm done.

 

[WASSHHH]

This is complete bullshit. I have qualified my statement and even someone else has tried to point it out, yet you won't take that into consideration.

I'm done.

Oh don’t be mistaken self proclaimed #1 Fan; I’ve considered your perspective and I don’t agree with it - hence why I said what I’ve said.

But I am glad someone else agrees with you. Given your childish remark about my original post getting likes (honestly, I have no idea what that had to do with anything, and I was going to ignore your earlier response completely, but as is quite often the case, you’ve thrown a tantrum when someone calls you out on your BS, so I will respond), it’s quite clear that it’s incredibly important to you that people agree with you and that you win the popularity contest.

So I sincerely hope you take satisfaction from the warmth that makes you feel.

 

[bb_gun]

Oh don’t be mistaken self proclaimed #1 Fan; I’ve considered your perspective and I don’t agree with it - hence why I said what I’ve said.

But I am glad someone else agrees with you. Given your childish remark about my original post getting likes (honestly, I have no idea what that had to do with anything, and I was going to ignore your earlier response completely, but as is quite often the case, you’ve thrown a tantrum when someone calls you out on your BS, so I will respond), it’s quite clear that it’s incredibly important to you that people agree with you and that you win the popularity contest.

So I sincerely hope you take satisfaction from the warmth that makes you feel.

You need to relax.

 

[WASSHHH]

You need to relax.

Fair point.

 

[Gaz]

It was amazing how quickly the game unfolded for the Broncos. Believe it or not, they actually started well. There was a positive early sign where Milford ran the ball from dummy half, drew his team a penalty and Brisbane were marching along inside the Eels half. They played the type of football you'd want to see that line-up play. They went two passes right to Haas who steamed onto the ball, then went long ball to Fifita charging at Moses and had the Eels on the back-foot. The Broncos should have got better result of that set, but the botched pass from dummy half disrupted Milford and gave Gutherson more than enough time to cover the kick.

Then within moments, Fifita gets himself in an awkward position and comes reeling out of a tackle, Oates drops a ball and the side is in disarray. It isn't long before both Fifita and Gillet come off and two bench players come on and by the time we get the starting side back on the field it's 20-0, soon to be 26-0 when Oates hands them a try with an embarrassing effort.

The biggest issue is the defence. Players working as a unit to wrap up the ball, win the ruck and limit the opposition's opportunities. It starts with the tackle where they're not getting off the line quick enough and they're not working together effectively in the tackle. The first player in the tackle has to lock up the ball, others have to join into take the legs and help turtle the player on the ground. That isn't happening and worse, they're not covering for one another. If you watch the Jennings try, Gutherson has an age to run the ball past the advantage line because Haas is too slow to force the play. Haas found himself in a tough predicament having to defend on the right edge since Pangai Jr was involved in the previous tackle and Gillett was off, but those are the efforts you have to make at this level, it's what the best teams do.

The other problem is their sets coming out of trouble. I thought this was the one area where Seibold would address right away but it's still a work in progress. Brisbane actually started the better of the two teams, until this one set. I hate to pick on him because he gets blamed for everything, but Darius set the tone from the first play. Watch the 4th minute again, when Darius receives the ball, he should see that the pass isn't on and that Jennings has Isaako well and truly covered. Isaako wasn't going to centre the ball more effectively than him and if Darbs had have gunned it, he would have got the ball over the 20m mark easily, maybe even over the 30 and gotten a quick play the ball against a choppy Eels defensive line. Instead he goes long ball, the Eels read it, three gang up on Isaako and the Broncos are on the back-foot just trying to get onside. It gets worse from there, O'Sullivan holds a pass up for Oates who gets set upon by a rushing Eels line and actually knocks the ball on but gets away with it. Then later in the set, Pangai Jr tips it on for Fifita who has plenty of room ahead of him, but instead he tips it on again to Staggs who has no support outside of him and has less room to work in then Fifita. It was a dog's breakfast and everybody involved needs to have their issues pointed out. Even Shibasaki's run on play two where he tried to go behind the markers was the wrong type of run at that point in that game.

Unfortunately it became the story of the night for the Broncos. They didn't throw up any shapes at the Eels inside their line, it became easy for the Eels defensive line to gang up and by the time the Broncos threw something at the Eels, they couldn't capitilise on the opportunity. Outside of not having the shapes in place, the issue is that the wrong players are receiving the football. Unless you're actually making significant headway, you can't keep attacking the same part of the field. Last night there were too many instances of one out rucks involving Lodge, Haas, Carrigan etc. where the only hint of deception was whether Lodge was going to pass it. Lodge cannot be the key playmaker of these sets, Milford, O'Sullivan and Boyd have to step up and put themselves in positions where they can work off of a Lodge play the ball. You also have to work different parts of the field. If you're getting beaten in the middle, then take it down a fringe, keep running traffic at their weakest defender and work off the back of it.

5 & 8 and the season is in tatters. Brisbane can make slight alterations to their line-up, but there's no secret ingredient waiting in reserves, the team can only hope to be better drilled. With the Broncos this season, it is what it is and while I don't want to get too far ahead of myself and start casting doom and gloom on the 2020 season, the Broncos have to take stock of their weaknesses and look to improve upon them.

Great summary.

What you have described in detail, simply put, is a lack of experience.
So..sadly for these young stars of the future there is no quick fix for gaining it, no matter how many sessions with Marty Johns or whoever only time and games under the belt will do it. If we want to keep our rising crop we have to wait - and be prepared to do so. From what I’ve witnessed of late it’s going to take much more then this season and very likely next as well.

But what about the Broncos as a club, we could speed things up, at current teams expense of course, and go to the market and buy some - experience that is. The good sides have plenty of it and we have very little. No wonder Seibold continues with Boyd and Macca to help even up the balance (****).

I have been a supporter of the Broncs since inception and a staunch Norths Devils fan. I have to say I have never been as frustrated as I was this last game. But in the sober light of day, I Intend to follow our young team going forward. I will take the bad with the good, knowing they will give me mixed emotions until they gain that experience. Better days ahead.

 

[Mr Fourex]

I don’t think it is hard being a Broncos fan at all. I mean, if the only reason you became a Broncos fan was because they used to win a lot, then yes, it would be hard being a Broncos fan at the moment. But if you are an actual fan it is easy to support your team no matter what. Some Broncos ‘fans’ wouldn’t last a year of following the Dogs or the Knights for the last 20 or so years.

I think I love you......

Your best post ever.

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

I’ll chip in and provide a few examples of where we have had equally as bad performances since Bennett came back in 2015.

1. Broncos 18 df by Dragons 48 Finals Week 1 2018 @ Suncorp
2. Broncos 12 df by Dragons 34 Round 1 2018 @ Kogarah
3. Broncos 0 df by Storm 30 Finals Week 3 2017 @ AAMI Park
4. Broncos 12 df by Storm 42 Round 17 2017 @ Suncorp
5. Broncos 34 df by Eels 52 Round 25 2017 @ Suncorp
6. Broncos 14 df by Bulldogs 40 Round 16 2016 @ Suncorp
7. Broncos 6 df by Storm 48 Round 17 2016 @ Suncorp
8. Broncos 14 df by Sea Eagles 44 Round 21 2015 @ Central Coast
9. Broncos 6 df by Rabbitohs 36 Round 1 2015 @ Suncorp

So these type of recent performances are nothing new. We have had them sporadically through out the last few years. Especially the back end of 2017 and leading into 2018 there were signs like this which we papered over through 2018 which ended up eventually blowing up in our faces in that disgusting final against St George. This is part reason why this squad is being revamped and still needs less Boyd and Macca. But we would want to hope we have some signings in mind and decent ones at that.
What’s worrying about the examples I have listed above is how many of them have occurred at Suncorp. I even left off last years shocker at home to The Warriors as I wasn’t sure if it was worthy to join those other games.

There's too much truth in this comment to read with Rose tinted glasses......

 

[heartly87]

I think the argument on here about the team is right on both sides. We can't be entitled supporters but we also can't accept mediocrity either and no fan should in a elite comp.

I think the Storm model is the right one. I hate the Roosters model for success. Which is always buy buy buy. The Storm is culture culture cultute and accountability.

Our model under Bennett has been different. It was about getting the job done and letting things be if need be.

This team needs a new Hooker, Fullback and one hard nosed forward leader. I have confidence in the Milf/Dreaden combo and next years centre pairing being Staggs and Bird. Our forwards will get better and hopefully one of them will step up to being the dominator we need. Oats is a must but maybe Isaako needs an injection of confidence. We are not so far off. Its a few key purchases or guys on the books getting a chance that could improve us to where we need to be.

I honestly think a lot of it is on Boyd to be honest. His form is terrible and his leadership is non existent. So how can he demand the best from his young team mates when a lot of them are outplaying him. How can he show up and say Isaako and Shiba your defence was not up to standard on the weekend when he falls over just changing direction. Siebs has to make a big call here and soon.