POST GAME Round 18 - Titans vs Broncos

[Kimlo]

When Gentle was brought in a lot of people said “just work on defence And the basics for the next few weeks”. That’s exactly what looks like has been happening.

Exactly this, we may still fall short but we're immeasurably better since Seibold fucked off.

Oates gifted them two trys, we dropped two trys over the line.

Last night's result could have easily been reversed, it's the best we've played since precovid.

Gentle can't turn the team around in a week, when a team sucks as badly as we did, you focus on the fundamentals then slowly branch out.

Considering our shocking injury list, we're not as far off being a competitive team again as some would think.

 

[rnabokov]

When Gentle was brought in a lot of people said “just work on defence And the basics for the next few weeks”. That’s exactly what looks like has been happening.

Oh if only that work included doing it all on the front foot, going forward, it would have made a much bigger difference, but as suggested above, overcoming 2 seasons of brain freeze is a big ask

 

[ZTop]

In the short parts of the game that I got to see, SOS was providing little to no value in attack, he just do a terrible dummy and run into a defender, not passing once

 

[rnabokov]

In the short parts of the game that I got to see, SOS was providing little to no value in attack, he just do a terrible dummy and run into a defender, not passing once

I felt sorry for SOS. He tried hard but looked lost. But then so did everybody, going backwards, sideways, every way except forwards, so, a bit like @Jedhead posted above, I felt sad rather than angry. And yes, I can only imagine how the players must feel. Poor bastards. They really try but have no idea, and when I look at all those young faces, heads down, I feel extra sad, for them.

 

[Gaz]

Wake me up when it's 2021.

At the beginning or the end ?

 

[Kimlo]

I felt sorry for SOS. He tried hard but looked lost. But then so did everybody, going backwards, sideways, every way except forwards, so, a bit like @Jedhead posted above, I felt sad rather than angry. And yes, I can only imagine how the players must feel. Poor bastards. They really try but have no idea, and when I look at all those young faces, heads down, I feel extra sad, for them.

So do I. People are way too harsh on SOS. He's had like 3 games in 2 years, has come into an absolute rabble, spent all year learning one fucked system, that gets thrown out the door for an entire new structure, and he's supposed to come in and star. Being a half is one of the hardest jobs on the field, you can't just come in and immediately flourish, not unless you're already a seasoned star.

He'll get better with game time.

 

[Huge]

So do I. People are way too harsh on SOS. He's had like 3 games in 2 years, has come into an absolute rabble, spent all year learning one fucked system, that gets thrown out the door for an entire new structure, and he's supposed to come in and star. Being a half is one of the hardest jobs on the field, you can't just come in and immediately flourish, not unless you're already a seasoned star.

He'll get better with game time.

So true. We do get a lot of that on here. I've seen statements like 'he's trash' written about 19 and 20 year olds ffs! Aside from being another piece of american garbage language (double meaning intentional) it's ridiculously premature and that's true too for SOS. 5/8, centre, hooker and fullback are all problem areas for next year. That's working on the assumption that Dearden stays injury free. Tough year ahead no matter who coaches.

 

[Jedhead]

At the beginning or the end ?

The start for sure. We have some talent that just needs to be nurtured and once we install a decent coach with the appropriate man management skills confidence will return. I think players like Deardon, Coates, Staggs, Riki and Herbie all have talent in abundance. Our pack were touted as potential world beaters at the start of 2020. I still think we have that capability provided they are all fit and available for selection.

They need to erect a backyard fence at Red Hill and have our forwards practice running off it everyday for the whole off-season.

 

[Sproj]

I’m not going to bag any halves from last night, yes they made mistakes but deadset what can you do when EVERY forward just stands there and no one runs, NO ONE! I felt sorry for Tommy and Sean, they were trying, they were scheming they just had absolutely nothing to work with whatsoever, the forwards are disgraceful. It’s no surprise the one time an edge runner has actually run on to it in recent weeks (Riki) he scored.

 

[Huge]

I’m not going to bag any halves from last night, yes they made mistakes but deadset what can you do when EVERY forward just stands there and no one runs, NO ONE! I felt sorry for Tommy and Sean, they were trying, they were scheming they just had absolutely nothing to work with whatsoever, the forwards are disgraceful. It’s no surprise the one time an edge runner has actually run on to it in recent weeks (Riki) he scored.

It's funny really in some ways. The stats actually tell a different story. The forwards from both teams made about the same metres when considering possession and sets. The Broncos were superior in post contact metres which again doesn't support the view the forwards were terrible.

We were superior in kick return metres too which suggests we were okay in that department. We even broke more tackles! That's a pretty good stat considering we had 46% possession so less opportunity. Just looking through the stats again and there isn't any case to be made that the Titans beat us in the forwards with ours beating theirs in just about every stat with fewer opportunities! Comprehensively beating the Titans forwards in reality. Imagine if Haas actually had a good game.

Even Kennedy did quite well. He played only 40 minutes yet managed 88 metres, 33 of those post contact. Had he played 80() he'd have to be around 150 or better. I think we were just a tad unlucky and I think the forwards did okay.

 

[Broncapz]

Theres a trend we have where we let opposition finish their sets over and over in our half, but struggle to make 45M. This just continues over and over until the pressure forces a mistake. The game becomes very unenjoyable to watch. Every team has done it to us for long periods of the game, including the Bulldogs. How do you fix that?

 

[Huge]

Theres a trend we have where we let opposition finish their sets over and over in our half, but struggle to make 45M. This just continues over and over until the pressure forces a mistake. The game becomes very unenjoyable to watch. Every team has done it to us for long periods of the game, including the Bulldogs. How do you fix that?

I don't know where the forwards are making their metres then The stats aren't lying, we definitely matched them in the last game. I do agree we've been well beaten at other times but not in the last game.

 

[Unbreakable]

The difference in running metres doesn't come from the forwards, it's the outside backs that are the issue.

Boyd, Oates, Farnworth, Staggs & Kennar combined for 427 metres from 45 runs.
Brimson, Don, Tonumaipea, Spry & Thompson combined for 683 metres from 77 runs.

I've been saying it all year, until we get some outside backs who aren't afraid to do some dirty work out of our own end and are actually strong enough runners to make the necessary yardage, we're not going to win field position battles, ever. The fact that the Titans outside backs took 32 more runs than ours really tells you all you need to know. We lose the outside back metre battle every single week.

 

[TheGreatCornholio7]

4 people falling for the NRL's master plan

I'm not falling for anything. I'm an East's junior so of course I will ditch Rupert's Broncos to follow the firehawks.

 

[Huge]

The difference in running metres doesn't come from the forwards, it's the outside backs that are the issue.

Boyd, Oates, Farnworth, Staggs & Kennar combined for 427 metres from 45 runs.
Brimson, Don, Tonumaipea, Spry & Thompson combined for 683 metres from 77 runs.

I've been saying it all year, until we get some outside backs who aren't afraid to do some dirty work out of our own end and are actually strong enough runners to make the necessary yardage, we're not going to win field position battles, ever. The fact that the Titans outside backs took 32 more runs than ours really tells you all you need to know. We lose the outside back metre battle every single week.

So, the original point being discussed was about the forwards and that clearly shows our forwards matched and bettered their opposites. Thanks for supporting my point.

 

[Sproj]

It's funny really in some ways. The stats actually tell a different story. The forwards from both teams made about the same metres when considering possession and sets. The Broncos were superior in post contact metres which again doesn't support the view the forwards were terrible.

We were superior in kick return metres too which suggests we were okay in that department. We even broke more tackles! That's a pretty good stat considering we had 46% possession so less opportunity. Just looking through the stats again and there isn't any case to be made that the Titans beat us in the forwards with ours beating theirs in just about every stat with fewer opportunities! Comprehensively beating the Titans forwards in reality. Imagine if Haas actually had a good game.

Even Kennedy did quite well. He played only 40 minutes yet managed 88 metres, 33 of those post contact. Had he played 80() he'd have to be around 150 or better. I think we were just a tad unlucky and I think the forwards did okay.

That’s all well and good but where is the threat? I’m happy to stand corrected on metres gained but I didn’t argue that point I don’t think. I argued they don’t run on to the ball.

Just so we are also clear, I defend Kennedy about as much as you do, I like him and to be honest, I am exaggerating that no one runs on to the ball, it is more the edge runners.

I’ll retract my statement about the forwards, it’s a general statement that is wrong. But the edge forwards just don’t run on to the ball and the team rarely runs in packs.

I was watching five minutes of the Roosters v Knights because I like the way the Roosters play. They run in packs, even someone away from the hooker running sideways is jogging up just in case and he’s 15 metres away. Our players stand and watch. I have no idea if stats support that or not but actually decoy runs would be an interesting stat because it doesn’t look like we have decoys anywhere.

 

[Huge]

That’s all well and good but where is the threat? I’m happy to stand corrected on metres gained but I didn’t argue that point I don’t think. I argued they don’t run on to the ball.

Just so we are also clear, I defend Kennedy about as much as you do, I like him and to be honest, I am exaggerating that no one runs on to the ball, it is more the edge runners.

I’ll retract my statement about the forwards, it’s a general statement that is wrong. But the edge forwards just don’t run on to the ball and the team rarely runs in packs.

I was watching five minutes of the Roosters v Knights because I like the way the Roosters play. They run in packs, even someone away from the hooker running sideways is jogging up just in case and he’s 15 metres away. Our players stand and watch. I have no idea if stats support that or not but actually decoy runs would be an interesting stat because it doesn’t look like we have decoys anywhere.

I wasn't picking on you, honestly. I also agree we could be sooo much better in the forwards. It's a credit to them in some ways because even though we agree they could be driven (collectively) better they're still going reasonably well for a team coming second last.

I keep harping on about two points of change I'd make. The first would be that no one runs alone( exceptions being first or second hitups after the kick) and practicing more slowly, definitely not at game speed. I'd have the forwards moving as a group but timing and rhythm is the primary goal.

I'd drill them relentlessly, slowly at first and building from there. We need the secondary forwards on both sides running at the gaps, up and back, expecting the odd ball. One out stuff on the 3rd, 4th and 5th tckle should never be happening. One only has to watch Melbourne to see how it's done. The timing is set by the hooker, every forward watches him to start his run and they all expect the ball. Timing and rhythm.

 

[rnabokov]

The difference in running metres doesn't come from the forwards, it's the outside backs that are the issue.

Boyd, Oates, Farnworth, Staggs & Kennar combined for 427 metres from 45 runs.
Brimson, Don, Tonumaipea, Spry & Thompson combined for 683 metres from 77 runs.

I've been saying it all year, until we get some outside backs who aren't afraid to do some dirty work out of our own end and are actually strong enough runners to make the necessary yardage, we're not going to win field position battles, ever. The fact that the Titans outside backs took 32 more runs than ours really tells you all you need to know. We lose the outside back metre battle every single week.

Maybe it's partly because our defence sucked and their backs made huge metres slicing though, and the Tits gave their backs the ball at the end of good shapes rather than one outs and expecting miracles. So as you say, it's the fact their backs got a whole lot more ball with room to move than ours that really tells this story.

As for the metres we made, it was 300 less than theirs. As for post-contact metres, it's what we don't do with them that counts, and, I am equally interested in pre-contact metres as the better metric to predict momentum which we clearly lack big time, and also where we made those metres.

As I looked at this game, it was again our lack of momentum which compressed the space for our halves so they had no time or space to set our edge forwards, our outside plays, so no real shapes, no opportunities for our backs to run, to show their speed. You can't run when there's no room to run.

Metres running into brick walls counts for little