Round 20 - Cowboys vs. Broncos - Pre Match Discussion

[_wwong]

No he didn't. He was sliding out as the line should have been but the guy beside was just standing there lazily as Carney ran the ball. Hoffman had to desperately try to 180 his momentum and dive at Carney while the player on his inside watched him waltz past not even attempting to move. To say Hoffman missed it is unfair. Same sort of thing happened with moose and Dodds a couple weeks back. I'd love to have seen the jersey number of the inside player.

It was Peter fucking Wallace

 

[noisetheory]

kidding yourself if you think griffin will make any serious changes, after he keeps praising their efforts/etc. maranta will probably get forced out but thats about it.

 

[Foordy]

Unlike Norman, I can forgive Hoff. He's barely played centres all year and was beaten by a world class talent.

Hope we give him more time in the centres. I believe it'll provide us with more spark. However, I can see Oates staying in the centres with Hoffman/Kahu on the wing. Which works...but I like my way better. :tongue_smilie:

I hope they select Oates at center, because if Hoffman moves to center for the Injured Reed, then we all know Maranta will keep his spot. If Hoffman stays on the wing then Maranta would likely lose his spot to Kahu.

 

[Alec]

TBH, the team looks pretty simple to me:

1) Kahu (Norman should never wear the jersey again, Kahu is our best option for the future. For now)
2) Hoffman (Far too valuable as a finisher to move right now)
3) Oates (Looked good and as opposed to Maranta, improved again in his second game. Defensively hit hard and positionally sound)
4) Hodges (Nuff said)
5) Kemp (Speed outside Hodges needs no argument)

6) Prince (Our best attacker. The only difference between him & Carney was a fullback who knows a good line)
7) Wallace (I don't care what people say. Good organiser, cool head)

8) Hannant (We need him badly)
9) McCullough (Still our best option)
10) McGuire (Played a phenomenal 80 minutes. No reason to bench him ever)
11) Stagg (Really solidifies the defence, Glenn unfortunately needs some time to work on his lines)
12) Thaiday (Where he belongs)
13) Parker (Our best forward)

14) Granville / Baptiste (Because McCullough still can't last a game and Hunt needs to practise being a half)
15) Gillett (Much better as an impact player, 40 - 50 minutes)
16) Dodds (Showed again that he is first grade quality and because the others produce big minutes, he just needs 20 - 30 minutes of smashings)
17) Tasi (Ditto Dodds, these two in combination defensively could bend the space/time continuum)

It'll never happen though. Glenn, Hunt, Hala (even if his injury is not bad), etc, are no longer the best players for their jobs. Maranta & Norman to never ever wear their jerseys again.

I think dropping Glenn from the starting 13 is wrong, but dropping him completely!?

 

[Big Pete]

I hope they select Oates at center, because if Hoffman moves to center for the Injured Reed, then we all know Maranta will keep his spot. If Hoffman stays on the wing then Maranta would likely lose his spot to Kahu.

That's what will keep him in the side.

Personally, I'd rather we give Hoffman the opportunity in the centres because he poses a bigger threat and we could draft in anybody from QCup to play wing and I'm sure they'd be better than Maranta.

 

[Buzz Killington]

Griffin will pick Norman, Wallace, Prince, McCullough and Maranta as per normal and the Cowboys will flog us and then Griffin will not question the effort of the performance.

 

[Porthoz]

That's what will keep him in the side.

Personally, I'd rather we give Hoffman the opportunity in the centres because he poses a bigger threat and we could draft in anybody from QCup to play wing and I'm sure they'd be better than Maranta.

Sorry but that makes no sense to me. Where will Kahu and Oates go in that case?
Oates with Hoffy on the wing, Hodgo with Kahu on the other wing. Hopefully someone other than Norman at fullback!

 

[Big Pete]

Already answered those questions earlier.

 

[rnabokov]

Hoffman is not a centre. He should not play there ever again. Not yet at least. He has the instincts of a winger. He seldom looks to pass/offload. Whether than can be coached is a another question. His place is on the wing

I can only dream of JYY and Hoffman on each wing. Wow

Oates IMO is the future post Hodges. He should be getting max. game time as starting centre.

The dilemma is Thaiday. Front row? NO. Nein. Nyet. Non. Never. His game was, is and should be running wide at their backs, where on his day, he is very very good.

The question then becomes whether to start with Gillett or Glenn. As much as I am a Gillett fanboy, I'd start with Glenn.

Norman should never sully a Broncos jersey again

My team would be:

1. Kahu (If we don't get Barba, he is our future FB in my opinion)
2. Hoffman
3. Oates
4. Hodges
5. Not Maranta
6. Prince
7.Wallace
8. Hannant
9. Macca
10. McGuire
11. Glenn
12. Thaiday
13. Parker

14. Hunt
15. Gillett
16. Tasi
17. Dodds

Hala is too unfit for NRL. I was impressed with Dodds. Hits hard and runs hard. He should be a permanent bench forward.

Prince and Wallace are ok if the team plays with some sort of well rehearsed structure, like our left side attack when they have some room and space to compensate for Wallace's lack of pace.

Prince has shown he can set up good right side plays. Why he hasn't is probably Hook's poor coaching

 

[Buzz Killington]

1. Bond 2. Hoffman 3. Oates 4. Hodges 5. Kemp 6. Kahu 7. Hunt 8. McGuire 9. Baptise 10. Hannant 11. Thaiday 12. Gillett 13. Parker 14. Glenn 15. Dodds 16. J.Wallace 17. Tasi

 

[Big Pete]

Hoffman is not a centre. He should not play there ever again. Not yet at least. He has the instincts of a winger. He seldom looks to pass/offload. Whether than can be coached is a another question. His place is on the wing

He and his children and their children's children should not play centre....for two months!!

Ahh Simpsons, now there's a show that should be referenced all the time.

I don't know how you arrive at that conclusion. Last night was one of Hoffman's best performances ever in the jersey and somehow it proves he isn't a centre? Jesus, if centres weren't selected because they rarely pass Hodges, Jennings, Tate would all be in serious trouble! FINALLY Hoffman had some space to work with and boy did he make the most of it! If he some bloody support on the inside, we would have been celebrating this win but alas...

In saying, centre is a far more important position. Play your best players in that position and Hoffman is far better than Oates.

Speaking of, Oates is a backrow. He'll play centres because he's still skinny but he's already playing backrow in the 20s and that's where he belongs running beautiful lines like he did last night and giving us fans a glimmer of hope.

Prince is a liability and for every decent play he comes up with he follows it up with a total dud play that kills the movement. That diving act was disgraceful and if it was me would see his contract torn up. Should have been dropped after the Cowboys game, dead-set.

 

[rnabokov]

I cannot agree with you about Hoffman. Whether Hodges or any other centre passes or not is separate - they should. Any good centre looks to his outside and inside. Hodges does that.

While Hoffa was elusive, made great runs not once did he look inside or outside. He has no instincts to pass. He has in the past but that was when Lockyer was playing, and enough has been posted here to show that Locky made anyone look good, well, not so much good, but he made his outside men understand what what was required of them and he set up the plays.

Which again underlies Hook's coaching deficiencies.

If Hoffa did what he ought to - look for support and pass instead of making great, incisive runs and dying with the ball, then yes, he would make a great centre or FB

However, his try scoring record on the wing is for mine, the most convincing argument about his best position

 

[Mr Fourex]

Speaking of, Oates is a backrow. He'll play centres because he's still skinny but he's already playing backrow in the 20s and that's where he belongs running beautiful lines like he did last night and giving us fans a glimmer of hope.

Keep playing him in the centres then for as long as we can......maybe he's the new Geno?

He's looked solid so far. More involvement from him would be good. Pity he'll be stuck behind Reed......

 

[Big Pete]

He's an 18 year old rookie, comparing him to Geno is just setting him up for failure. Kid is good, have him come off the bench and run some of those magical lines.

Are we seriously making a point about Hoffman's try scoring rate? He's a 100% in the centres!! rna you keep tripping yourself over, can or can't he pass? Making some point about Locky holding his hand is asinine. They're grown men! Did he or did he not pass it on Friday? Yes or no?

There you go.

 

[Ari Gold]

Let's just stick Maranta outside Hoffman and we'll agree he shouldn't pass it. Ever.

 

[rnabokov]

Asinine? Pete, I resent your personal attack on me. You disappoint me. In your high position on this forum, I expected more from you. By all means disagree, say in your opinion I am wrong, but do not ever call me asinine again. Got it? I get thin skinned about this.

Wasn't it you who posted recently about playing the ball and not the man?

I have read enough posts on this forum which are similarly "asinine" about the effect Lockyer had both on this team, and on the performance of individual players. The decline in both team and individuals suggests my opinion is not asinine. For mine, Lockyer held everybody's hand, and heart and mind as well.

There also seems to be 2 points a large number of posters have made about Hoffman. As FB, post Lockyer, he lost whatever ball playing abilities he had, and ball playing means in large part passing the ball. His relatively poor involvement in 2nd man plays appears to prove this. From memory, others have said the same.

If I am wrong, by all means show me the evidence and I will humbly concede. Whether he can pass the ball consistently and effectively for mine was not shown last night. His running game was however, as always, exemplary.

The 2nd point I feel has been made loud and clear in this place is that Hoffman is our answer to a first class winger.

As for Fourex's point about Oates, I read it as Oates will hopefully become as effective as Geno. I can't see any statement or inference by Mr F. that compared Oates to Geno.

 

[Alec]

I gotta admit, I miss the days when centres and wingers worked together, when centres played as much for their wingers as for themselves. Matt Gidley and Timanu Tahu combo for Newcastle in the early 00s was just awesome. Lyon is one of the best centres in the world largely thanks to the opportunities he creates for his winger too. I don't particularly rate Reed as a player, but his combination with Hoffman is a highlight for me now that those combos are so rare.

 

[Buzz Killington]

I gotta admit, I miss the days when centres and wingers worked together, when centres played as much for their wingers as for themselves. Matt Gidley and Timanu Tahu combo for Newcastle in the early 00s was just awesome. Lyon is one of the best centres in the world largely thanks to the opportunities he creates for his winger too. I don't particularly rate Reed as a player, but his combination with Hoffman is a highlight for me now that those combos are so rare.

Agree 100%. As much as I hate Steve Matai he is an incredibly unselfish player and his combination with Jorge Taufua is absolutely lethal for Manly, but outside of the two Manly centres there are not many who really work with their wingers effectively.