POST GAME Round 23 - Broncos vs Rabbitohs

[BroncsFan]

What we need here is a definition. Please define the features of 'the modern game' and this way we can see if we agree or disagree. Naturally there are others that have said the same thing but we cannot really know unless we have a definition which those same people agree with.

For me the modern game is an emphasis on generating speed in the ruck with the ball and slowing it down in defence.

In defence it's about getting the player on their back in attack it's about finding your front.

Defensive lines are so good nowadays that finding points against a set defensive line is very difficult. By prioritising quick play the balls in the ruck you are able to disrupt the line and attack off the back of it.

 

[CaptainHook]

Guys, stop going on about the refs. They might have got a couple of soft penalties, but we got some too. And what about that regather from the fucking stupid short kick off with 5 minutes to go. Alex Glenn clearly knocked it forward.
Do you know what really swung the momentum? Kodi's 2 half assed clearing kicks to the 30m and 40m on the full. What we needed there was a massive boot or at the very least to put it into touch. Rubbish handling errors and also fatigue - that stupid offload on our 15m line for eg.

No coincidence that when our starting forwards went off we struggled, when they came back on we lifted.

Absolutely spot-on. I thought the refereeing the other night was pretty good and we won. I thought the refereeing in the Cowboys game was good too and we lost.

Glenn and McGuire are becoming penalty magnets with their lack of discipline lately and it's costing us.

Swings and roundabouts I reckon.

Ps here's a good tweet that Steve Mascord put out the other day. Sorry I don't know how to embed tweets in a post but here's what he said:

"How many specific refereeing mistakes can you remember from a year ago, five years ago, 10? But how many tries, wins, premierships, try-saving tackles do you remember? Bagging refs is the equivalent of “geez it’s hot today” - talking coz it feels like you gotta say something."

So true.

 

[ivanhungryjak]

I blame the saturated coverage of the game nowadays.
There's hours of tv and radio airtime and newspaper columns to fill and lazy journalists like Rothfield, Hooper and Kent are reduced to gossip and easy marks to create controversy and keep their jobs.

 

[CaptainHook]

I blame the saturated coverage of the game nowadays.
There's hours of tv and radio airtime and newspaper columns to fill and lazy journalists like Rothfield, Hooper and Kent are reduced to gossip and easy marks to create controversy and keep their jobs.

That is correct.

I called it pretty much when Fox League launched.

It could have possible started earlier when NRL 360 started to run multiple times a week.

There's a fatal flaw in having a 24 hour rugby league channel for a sport that does not generate anywhere near enough meaningful content to justify it... endless replays of mediocre shows and the previous week's games can only go so far.

Bagging referees, coaching merry-go rounds and player contract movements are really bottom of the barrel stuff, I think.

It's a serpent eating it's tail. Let's say, for example, we got rid of the bunker as was suggested by some a few weeks ago.

The broadcasters would never be strong enough to resist the temptation to show endless replays of refereeing mistakes and whipping up outrage among the fandom thereby guaranteeing the need for a bunker lol.

 

[Battler]

"How many specific refereeing mistakes can you remember from a year ago, five years ago, 10? But how many tries, wins, premierships, try-saving tackles do you remember? Bagging refs is the equivalent of “geez it’s hot today” - talking coz it feels like you gotta say something."

There's numerous, the ones that stick out the most are the Foran hand and the seven tackle set (even though they hurt the Cows, which is a slight positive). The general policing of the ruck isn't dramatic or a one off, but it has hurt the quality of the NRL and, arguably barring 2015 although the Cows did wrestle more than us, determined the winners of the comp for the past 10 years.

We need to go back to one ref or one ref + a ruck assistant who only looks at the ruck and nothing else.

That is correct.

I called it pretty much when Fox League launched.

It could have possible started earlier when NRL 360 started to run multiple times a week.

There's a fatal flaw in having a 24 hour rugby league channel for a sport that does not generate anywhere near enough meaningful content to justify it... endless replays of mediocre shows and the previous week's games can only go so far.

Bagging referees, coaching merry-go rounds and player contract movements are really bottom of the barrel stuff, I think.

It's a serpent eating it's tail. Let's say, for example, we got rid of the bunker as was suggested by some a few weeks ago.

The broadcasters would never be strong enough to resist the temptation to show endless replays of refereeing mistakes and whipping up outrage among the fandom thereby guaranteeing the need for a bunker lol.

There is an issue with the standard of refereeing, but the media's solutions are idiotic. The bunker is a good concept. Hell, have a few officials in the bunker watching the ruck in live time with a BJJ expert: it's quite literally the biggest issue with our game at the moment.

 

[Huge]

That is correct.

I called it pretty much when Fox League launched.

It could have possible started earlier when NRL 360 started to run multiple times a week.

There's a fatal flaw in having a 24 hour rugby league channel for a sport that does not generate anywhere near enough meaningful content to justify it... endless replays of mediocre shows and the previous week's games can only go so far.

Bagging referees, coaching merry-go rounds and player contract movements are really bottom of the barrel stuff, I think.

It's a serpent eating it's tail. Let's say, for example, we got rid of the bunker as was suggested by some a few weeks ago.

The broadcasters would never be strong enough to resist the temptation to show endless replays of refereeing mistakes and whipping up outrage among the fandom thereby guaranteeing the need for a bunker lol.

So true. Many people simply have ridiculous rose coloured memories of the terrible days before we started getting 98% of the calls right. Back then we got 75-80% of the calls right and it's a total crock of shit to suggest that things even out. If that were true then over 30 years all teams would have received the same amount of penalties with a 1% variation but that's not the case.

Take for example a team making one solitary grand final and losing it due to an error from a ref that we couldn't overrule, when the **** is that going to even out ? Never. People become used to the new normal and keep remembering a time that never existed. I remember blunder after blunder and as replays became better I kept thinking, time for change. Let's give power to an off field umpire who has the power to correct obvious blunders and I wasn't alone as is obvious with the introduction of the very same.

Reffing is vastly superior now to the error riddled past and we get so much more right now. Personally I don't fucking care how long it takes to get the right decisions and I can live with the ones we get wrong now.

 

[CaptainHook]

There's numerous, the ones that stick out the most are the Foran hand and the seven tackle set (even though they hurt the Cows, which is a slight positive). The general policing of the ruck isn't dramatic or a one off, but it has hurt the quality of the NRL and, arguably barring 2015 although the Cows did wrestle more than us, determined the winners of the comp for the past 10 years.

We need to go back to one ref or one ref + a ruck assistant who only looks at the ruck and nothing else.

Good post mate. Agree completely about one referee. Every other rugby league competition in the world manages just fine with one ref. Don't know what makes the NRL so different.

The seven tackle set in the Sharks-Cowboys final and the Foran 'Hand of God' were genuine errors. They weren't fifty-fifty calls that could've gone either way (a big problem these days is fans conflating the two). They were dead set shockers.

Surely though I'm not the only one that thinks Matt Cecchin being dropped for a seven tackle set only to see his mistake incorporated into the game's rules a year or so later is unintentionally hilarious.

Never change NRL.

Still though, what's the ratio of genuine errors from match officials over how many tries, players and premierships you remember?

I remember the score in the 2006 Grand Final. 15-8 to the Broncos.

I remember the score in the 2015 Grand Final. 17-16 to the Cowboys.

I don't remember the penalty counts.

Actually I do. The penalty count was: I don't give a shit. What's done is done.

Back to 2013 with the Sharkies and the Cowgirls, what's interesting when watching that game is how many people missed it live. The commentators were only informed a few minutes after the fact. The players were unaware. Thurston is the greatest player of all time - he missed it but that didn't stop him from going on a conspiracy-laden rant about it. Or was that after the Foran incident?

Shane Flanagan and Neil Henry both knew what happened - yet both decided against telling their teams at half time.

Isn't that interesting? I think it's good coaching as it was a tight game and it was anybody's game at that point. The Cowboys hit the lead twice and couldn't go on with it.

There is an issue with the standard of refereeing, but the media's solutions are idiotic. The bunker is a good concept. Hell, have a few officials in the bunker watching the ruck in live time with a BJJ expert: it's quite literally the biggest issue with our game at the moment.

Hahaha for a second there I thought you said a BHQ expert. Geez, talk about the cure being worse than the disease lol.

A lot gets made about the Melbourne Storm and their wrestling tactics. After reflecting on it, I'm not sure if I buy it.

Melbourne are big believers in playing for 80 minutes, one on one defence, respecting the football and playing for field position.

Personally, I think those things are responsible for their success rather than underhanded tactics in the ruck.

I think the standard of refereeing is getting better. I just see the futility in expecting perfection.

I also think consistency is a myth. I have a theory that there will never be consistency with refereeing.

We would've achieved it already. We've never had it and never will.

Fans need to come to terms with the fact that they will cop a bad call - but may also be the be the recipient of a bad call going against the other team.

It's just Rugby League.

 

[Battler]

A lot gets made about the Melbourne Storm and their wrestling tactics. After reflecting on it, I'm not sure if I buy it.

Teams know they aren't going to get penalised out of a match though, and rubbish tactics like giving away penalties in defence still aren't adequately discouraged because there's every likelihood that square ups will happen. Look at the start of the season when teams were getting refereed out of games, teams like Melbourne were struggling big time, now we're back to the NRL favouring the 'spectacle' over enforcing the rules and we're back to the same old grind.

EDIT: What I'm getting at is that the game I feel in love (the open, attacking flair being in favour) isn't really the same. It's still lightyears better than Union, but the NRL has let cheats and parasites prosper and they need to clamp down on it ASAP. I respect Greenberg for what he did at the start of the season, but he caved in to the media.

 

[BroncsFan]

Good post mate. Agree completely about one referee. Every other rugby league competition in the world manages just fine with one ref. Don't know what makes the NRL so different.

For me the issue with the second ref is more so about them having zero responsibilities.

If you look at a sport like the NFL they have about 8-10 referees on the field, the difference with their sport is that every one of those refs is responsible for a certain area of the field and their decision is final.

In the NRL the assistant ref may as well replace his whistle with a flag because realistically we play with one ref anyway and they never use their whistle unless they find themselves suddenly in the main role after a change of possession. At times you'll hear the assistant call for penalties but the lead ref will just ignore them. Why are they even there with a whistle if their interpretation can just be ignored.

For me all 4 onfield officials should be utilised and should have responsibilities.

At the moment touchies just mark where it goes out, tell the ref they should check the grounding and completely miss or make non calls on forward passes.

Touchies should be responsible for certain aspects that happen on their side of the field, especially anything that happens on the blindside of the ruck. There is no way the main ref can tell what has happened in a ruck on the blindside so the touchie should have the final call if say a ball comes loose. Also for me the blindside touchie should always be inline with the ruck so they can make calls on forward passes.

For the assistant ref they should be a dedicated official of the ruck, they are close enough to tell the defenders to get off, determine if there is a strip, crusher, crowding, etc. if they see a ruck infringement they should be the one blowing the whistle.

The main ref should be managing onside/offside, markers not square, high shots, etc. and if they see any infringements not seen by the ruck official ie anything that occurs in front of the ruck that the assistant can't see.

At the moment everything seems to be with the main official and there is absolutely no responsibility and therefore no accountability for any of the other officials.

 

[Alec]

I don't remember there being any KPI shit in reffing before. It's probably partially due to the modern outrage culture, but it's still a huge negative effect on refereeing, where they have to keep it even to keep the general public/media off their backs.

 

[BroncsFan]

I don't remember there being any KPI shit in reffing before. It's probably partially due to the modern outrage culture, but it's still a huge negative effect on refereeing, where they have to keep it even to keep the general public/media off their backs.

If there are KPI's for refereeing then it should only be about missed or incorrect calls.

Anything else, such as penalty counts, etc. is deadset illegal manipulation of the game and a form of match-fixing, which would have the NRL in serious legal issues.

 

[Old Mate]

You can't blame Roberts.....Isaako was shit. He's starting to piss me off.

He makes the same dumb defensive errors every game.

He does the same loose carry / brain explosion and drops the ball in our own 20...... every 2nd game.

He needs to smarten the **** up.

Bang on, he really has to improve his wing defence. I’m really worried about them against Latrell. He’s got to be close to the best centre running around.

 

[Gaz]

Always been and always will be bad referee calls, it’s a part of our game. I believe to put yourself in a position to win a Rugby League game you have to be, at the very least, one point better than your opposition and another point to make up for the bad calls.