PRE-GAME [Round 24, 2022] Broncos vs Eels

[007]

It came across as you not acknowledging that stats have a place. My point is pretty simple, good players have good stats. It really is that simple. This supposed 'eye test' appears equally unreliable.

Always the eye of the beholder.

The eye test is relevant to the intelligence and brain behind it.

 

[Manofoneway]

Turpin and Walters are both high effort players, but neither can sustain it for a full half, let alone 80 minutes. Turpin has apparently developed a competitive eater appetite for tackling, and that's what he prioritizes. Kevvie has been pushing defence all year. He's doing what Kevvie wants. You'd have to assume. But he's not wanted next season, so his selection is inexplicable.

Billy is somewhat better at shovelling the ball off the ground and getting it to the next player beside him. Jake tends to take a couple more steps to get the same thing done. Neither are much good at it but Billy is somewhat quicker, and occasionally, but only occasionally, draws a defender and opens a gap. Jake rarely does that anymore. In play, Billy is probably somewhat better at distributing the ball and has a step we rarely see. Billy fancies himself as a 5/8th more than hooker and poses himself in attack somewhat more like one. But in practice he doesn't command the field like one. He's very much the bloke brought up from the lower grades to cover an injury.

Neither Jake nor Billy are, or will ever be, genuine spine members, in the way the likes of Harry Grant are. They're budget fill-ins, who give 100% but it's never going to be enough.

We've seen so little of Paix, and what we've seen hasn't been much different from what I described above. In the little we've seen there have been glimpses of him taking on the line himself and scoring and some half play that suggests he has more attacking upside than Jake and Billy. But he's never set the game on fire. He's been an incremental upgrade, at best. But maybe with some upside. We're hoping.

It's fashionable to bash Jake now. I see it everywhere. He's a free hit. Everyone is sure there's a solution there in the QLD Cup in the form of Cory Paix. All Kevvie has to do is sack Jake. While this escape exists, the focus will always be on Jake, and not Billy. But once Jake goes, who will we blame?

Well put. It's weird regarding turpin. I could have sworn when he burst into the scene he folded ***** in defence and threw bullet passes 30 meters from the ground... he's just fallen off a cliff

 

[Dee]

Kevvie is such a highly emotional person. Seeing him tear up during his speech about Adam is great to watch however is a highly emotional coach the answer? I'd assume he makes decisions based off emotion where as I believe we need critical thinking. Can't base everything off emotion.

 

[Manofoneway]

Kevvie is such a highly emotional person. Seeing him tear up during his speech about Adam is great to watch however is a highly emotional coach the answer? I'd assume he makes decisions based off emotion where as I believe we need critical thinking. Can't base everything off emotion.

Siebold was a critical thinker.. remember he had a play for every position on the field. The players didnt understand it. The broncos DNA is emotion, hard work and effort. I think the lads love kevy and won't want to let him down. The emotion is great I feel.

 

[Organix]

It came across as you not acknowledging that stats have a place. My point is pretty simple, good players have good stats. It really is that simple. This supposed 'eye test' appears equally unreliable.

Always the eye of the beholder.

But it isn't that simple. Some of the best players have terrible stats. JT had consistently horrible missed tackle stats. Kikau has the most errors this season. It's just they have good stats in areas where it counts. Paul Vautin has a 100% goal kicking record (2/2), but noone was ever going to sign him for his kicking.

It has to be somewhat wholistic and the 'eye test' is indeed subjective, but equally valid in football forums when discussing players. How would one know that JT was actually doing enough to slow a ball-runner for his cover defense, which reduced his inefficiency if one didn't watch the game and apply the eye test?

 

[Dee]

Siebold was a critical thinker.. remember he had a play for every position on the field. The players didnt understand it. The broncos DNA is emotion, hard work and effort. I think the lads love kevy and won't want to let him down. The emotion is great I feel.

I agree that Seibold was a critical thinker. Having emotion is good, we needed someone to bring the team back together after Seibold destroyed us. However, what I'm saying is is being overly emotional and tearing up about everything hinder us when making team changes for example?
Is the reason Turpin and James are in the team based purely off emotion and because kevvie likes them personally and feels attached to them somehow?
Surely his team selections recently have been purely based off emotion.
You don't win games off emotion, it wears off.

 

[McHunt]

Well put. It's weird regarding turpin. I could have sworn when he burst into the scene he folded ***** in defence and threw bullet passes 30 meters from the ground... he's just fallen off a cliff

Not really. But he was an upgrade from Macca, who trundled along mechanically. All our hookers are an incremental upgrade on Macca, except in experience. I would be happy with Gamble there, but from what he was saying he's not fit enough, especially in the legs.

 

[Manofoneway]

I agree that Seibold was a critical thinker. Having emotion is good, we needed someone to bring the team back together after Seibold destroyed us. However, what I'm saying is is being overly emotional and tearing up about everything hinder us when making team changes for example?
Is the reason Turpin and James are in the team based purely off emotion and because kevvie likes them personally and feels attached to them somehow?
Surely his team selections recently have been purely based off emotion.
You don't win games off emotion, it wears off.

Good points, we will wait and see I guess. I think kevy Is well liked by the playing group. Everyone comments on the culture and whatnot. Don't know much else

 

[Manofoneway]

Not really. But he was an upgrade from Macca, who trundled along mechanically. All our hookers are an incremental upgrade on Macca, except in experience.

Yeah I must have remembered it differently. I rated turpin when he burst onto the scene. I think he was never the same after he broke his leg. He's not a natural athlete like Harry Grant.

 

[McHunt]

Yeah I must have remembered it differently. I rated turpin when he burst onto the scene. I think he was never the same after he broke his leg. He's not a natural athlete like Harry Grant.

He was basically the fantasy Cory Paix that everyone here imagines when he replaced Macca, and then, under Macca's tutelage he became Macca V2.

 

[Skathen]

But it isn't that simple. Some of the best players have terrible stats. JT had consistently horrible missed tackle stats. Kikau has the most errors this season. It's just they have good stats in areas where it counts. Paul Vautin has a 100% goal kicking record (2/2), but noone was ever going to sign him for his kicking.

It has to be somewhat wholistic and the 'eye test' is indeed subjective, but equally valid in football forums when discussing players. How would one know that JT was actually doing enough to slow a ball-runner for his cover defense, which reduced his inefficiency if one didn't watch the game and apply the eye test?

Ahh yes, the Darius Boyd effect. Can't get missed or ineffective tackle stats if you trip, slip, give up or just throw your hands in the air.

 

[Strop]

Don’t really like raising the subject, but I wonder how Seibold would have fared if he walked into this current group of players as coach. The average IQ is higher as a start compared to where we were. Maybe it could’ve worked, or maybe the implosion would still occur.

 

[Skathen]

He was basically the fantasy Cory Paix that everyone here imagines when he replaced Macca, and then, under Macca's tutelage he became Macca V2.

His first season, his service was sharper than Maccas and he made a number of smart darts out of DH.

If you have a pass bot as your DH - the defence gets a major leg up in not having to defend the ruck area properly.

That's the benefit of the Cooks etc of the world. If the markers are not sqaure or paying attention he guns it into the massive gap behind them and makes them pay. It also "holds" the markers in the marker position for longer too - because while that DH has the ball in his hands they have a job to do, right where they are.

If they are a pass bot - the markers are free as soon as the ball is played to start pushing out quickly - this puts more pressure on a 1 - out play as the marker often arrives at the same time or even slightly before the line defence.

 

[pagey]

Kevvie is such a highly emotional person. Seeing him tear up during his speech about Adam is great to watch however is a highly emotional coach the answer? I'd assume he makes decisions based off emotion where as I believe we need critical thinking. Can't base everything off emotion.

that's why we have a coaching team not just a coach.
was Seibold emotional or critical thinking

 

[Alec]

Don’t really like raising the subject, but I wonder how Seibold would have fared if he walked into this current group of players as coach. The average IQ is higher as a start compared to where we were. Maybe it could’ve worked, or maybe the implosion would still occur.

Reynolds could have possibly helped a lot, he might have been able to dumb it down for some of the geniuses in the side. Still don't think it would have worked out, I think Seibold's best chance is to be an assistant coach and let someone else man manage and get the side fired up.

 

[Dexter]

One thing I'm looking for tonight is Staggs effort on kick returns and generally bringing the ball out from our half .
His not participating as he could in that area is one of my knocks on kev. The guy is on huge money for a centre and for kev not to ensure that he gets in and gets his hands on the ball instead of waiting to be spoon fed early ball in space is costing us big time. Katoni is a lazy talent but that's kevs job to hold him to a standard .
He hasn't responded from getting dropped by Fittler but he's a $700k centre who needs to start earning his money.

 

[Manofoneway]

Don’t really like raising the subject, but I wonder how Seibold would have fared if he walked into this current group of players as coach. The average IQ is higher as a start compared to where we were. Maybe it could’ve worked, or maybe the implosion would still occur.

The thing is siebold never had the blessing of the old boys. I felt sorry for him in some respects. Seemed like a good dude and a smart enough guy, but was doomed from the start it seems. Much prefer having kevy as coach but would like to see siebold coaching again somewhere. I thought with the right roster he could be good

 

[Cult]

he didn’t help himself with the blessing. He wasn’t Kevin Walters which started it, but completely disregarding the past was where he lost any chance of ever fixing it.

Plus he was distracted off field. There were zero positives to him being here.