LIVE State of Origin Game III - NSW vs QLD

Super Freak

International Captain
Staff
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Brisbane
Watching the replay, it still baffles me why Kaufusi wasn't on the right playing next to Cherry-Evans where he would have been more effective.

You've got one of the best right backrowers in the comp and you've got Cherry-Evans who has one of the best short balls in the comp and NSW had the worst defender in the comp defending on that side.

I didn't give QLD a chance this series but I can't help but feel that they bungled it. NSW were gifting the game to them on a silver platter. QLD were the better side in the first half and were really troubling NSW but for whatever reason when they came back out for the second half, they just went to shit.
 

Alec

International Rep
15,784
6,930
Just shut down Tedesco and we win next year (unless the injuries **** us over again). Hopefully that means Friend is available, or some other hooker completely kills it and demands a spot. Hunt absolutely can't be in the middle for 80 minutes.
If luck goes our way and Klemmer doesn't get picked, then that's just the cherry on top.
 

kooly87

NYC Player
129
131
Biggest mistake i think QLD made was not managing better the transition of the side. We should never, ever have let Cronk, Thurston and Smith finish up all at the same time. Should maybe have done it over a 3 year period. Thurston 2017, Cronk 2018 and Smith 2019. Surely if the plan was put to them they would have agreed it was the right thing to do for QLD. IT would be extremely selfish of them not to agree to that. I can remember Civo and Price staying on to mentor the younger guys coming through, these blokes should have done the same. Losing JT, Cronk, Smith, Inglis and Slater would leave a huge hole in any team.

I'd actually go so far as to say if the succession plan i proposed was put in place, we would have won the last 2 series.
I'm not entirely sure the blame for this can all be levelled at the Queensland Coaching staff or selectors etc.

- Inglis had a complete breakdown in his mental and physical health and retired prematurely. It should have been a fit Inglis in his farewell series lining up at Left Centre instead of an out of position Morgan and an out of position Mbye. Nothing the Queensland management could do about any of this.

- Slater and Thurston both retired giving Queensland their absolute very best right up until their very last game (Thurston until his very last touch) so no issue there with either of those guys. Slater even did it after he was done the injustice of being overlooked initially by Walters in the first place.

- The two biggest culprits I'm sorry to say, in my eyes at least, are Cronk and Smith. Both these guys have been huge in building up the culture and spirit of Queensland over the previous decade and should be justifiably proud of what they achieved. Cronk in particular had to bide his time for a starting spot and should have been the most grateful for the career he ended up enjoying as Queensland managed his shift from Bench to starting Halfback so brilliantly.

To then have these two go through what was so clearly a personal falling out that forced them into splitting their club combination, followed by both deciding out of the blue to retire despite having years left on their NRL contracts and no obvious successors to their positions in the pipeline, was extremely selfish and for me has to an extent tarnished the legacy of both players.

Smith in particular was the incumbent Captain and through his own longevity in the position had ensured that no other player was even in the Dummy Half position pipeline to replace him (not a bad thing or Smith's fault) and not only had more time on his current contract, he was actually looking to extend that contract even further at that point which he ultimately did. To then pull the pin on his Origin career less than a month out from the start of the series was simply shameful.

Walters made it about as clear as he respectfully could publicly that Smith was still his preferred option both last year and this year and always left the door open for him, but Smith for whatever reason known only to him, chose to leave his state and the culture he'd been instrumental in helping to build, totally high and dry in their hour of need.

History will remember all these guys as absolute titans of the game. Smith may yet be remembered as the very best of all time, but in a career that already had one or two question marks over him and his character, the way he chose to finish his time as a Queensland Origin player and the Queensland Captain no less, will for me always leave a mark against him.

Compared to guys like Slater, Thurston and even GI, who so utterly gave their all to Queensland right up until their bodies quite literally failed them, Smith's swansong simply does his overall legacy a grave disservice and pails in comparison to the guys who played alongside him.
 
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Wolfie

State of Origin Rep
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I don't agree at all it couldn't have been planned better. Good management involves foresight, and I don't think they planned ahead. The Inglis situation was very unfortunate, but the rest of them, despite them giving everything when they played, could have been avoided simply by staggering player retirements. Thurston was fine finishing in 2017. 2018 should have been Cronk and Slater, and 2019 should have been Smith and Inglis.
 

Tom

State of Origin Rep
6,663
5,773
I don't agree at all it couldn't have been planned better. Good management involves foresight, and I don't think they planned ahead. The Inglis situation was very unfortunate, but the rest of them, despite them giving everything when they played, could have been avoided simply by staggering player retirements. Thurston was fine finishing in 2017. 2018 should have been Cronk and Slater, and 2019 should have been Smith and Inglis.
Maybe that's how it was planned but the prima donna players fucked it all up? You can plan something like that all you want but the players can retire whenever they feel like so it's pretty pointless.
 

Sirlee oldman

NRL Player
1,020
1,185
I'm not entirely sure the blame for this can all be levelled at the Queensland Coaching staff or selectors etc.

- Inglis had a complete breakdown in his mental and physical health and retired prematurely. It should have been a fit Inglis in his farewell series lining up at Left Centre instead of an out of position Morgan and an out of position Mbye. Nothing the Queensland management could do about any of this.

- Slater and Thurston both retired giving Queensland their absolute very best right up until their very last game (Thurston until his very last touch) so no issue there with either of those guys. Slater even did it after he was done the injustice of being overlooked initially by Walters in the first place.

- The two biggest culprits I'm sorry to say, in my eyes at least, are Cronk and Smith. Both these guys have been huge in building up the culture and spirit of Queensland over the previous decade and should be justifiably proud of what they achieved. Cronk in particular had to bide his time for a starting spot and should have been the most grateful for the career he ended up enjoying as Queensland managed his shift from Bench to starting Halfback so brilliantly.

To then have these two go through what was so clearly a personal falling out that forced them into splitting their club combination, followed by both deciding out of the blue to retire despite having years left on their NRL contracts and no obvious successors to their positions in the pipeline, was extremely selfish and for me has to an extent tarnished the legacy of both players.

Smith in particular was the incumbent Captain and through his own longevity in the position had ensured that no other player was even in the Dummy Half position pipeline to replace him (not a bad thing or Smith's fault) and not only had more time on his current contract, he was actually looking to extend that contract even further at that point which he ultimately did. To then pull the pin on his Origin career less than a month out from the start of the series was simply shameful.

Walters made it about as clear as he respectfully could publicly that Smith was still his preferred option both last year and this year and always left the door open for him, but Smith for whatever reason known only to him, chose to leave his state and the culture he'd been instrumental in helping to build, totally high and dry in their hour of need.

History will remember all these guys as absolute titans of the game. Smith may yet be remembered as the very best of all time, but in a career that already had one or two question marks over him and his character, the way he chose to finish his time as a Queensland Origin player and the Queensland Captain no less, will for me always leave a mark against him.

Compared to guys like Slater, Thurston and even GI, who so utterly gave their all to Queensland right up until their bodies quite literally failed them, Smith's swansong simply does his overall legacy a grave disservice and pails in comparison to the guys who played alongside him.
Great post.
 

kooly87

NYC Player
129
131
I don't agree at all it couldn't have been planned better. Good management involves foresight, and I don't think they planned ahead. The Inglis situation was very unfortunate, but the rest of them, despite them giving everything when they played, could have been avoided simply by staggering player retirements. Thurston was fine finishing in 2017. 2018 should have been Cronk and Slater, and 2019 should have been Smith and Inglis.
I think we've had a misunderstanding here. I agree with your point 110% that it could have been avoided, I'm just saying the players in question are the ones responsible, not Queensland Rugby League management.

Smith in particular really screwed the Coach and selectors over, and Cronk was really only marginally more forgiveable because he prematurely pulled the pin and screwed us with a little more notice.
 
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Super Freak

International Captain
Staff
25,232
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Brisbane
Coaching staff could have done better in planning for the future.

For example, Cronk was brought into the squad in 2010 in preparation for the retirement of Lockyer. He played 6 games off the bench before taking over in 2012.

We had Michael Morgan coming off the bench for a few years, but instead of grooming him to take over in the halves, we use him as a Mr-Fix-It.
 

kooly87

NYC Player
129
131
Coaching staff could have done better in planning for the future.

For example, Cronk was brought into the squad in 2010 in preparation for the retirement of Lockyer. He played 6 games off the bench before taking over in 2012.

We had Michael Morgan coming off the bench for a few years, but instead of grooming him to take over in the halves, we use him as a Mr-Fix-It.
Cronk was a Mr Fix It for a while there too. So was DCE at times. Let's not forget how they used Ponga initially as well.

Point is though, Morgan should still have been coming off the Bench developing for us because Cronk should still have been the Queensland Halfback. Only he alone is responsible for the fact he's not.
 
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Wolfie

State of Origin Rep
6,932
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I think we've had a misunderstanding here. I agree with your point 110% that it could have been avoided, I'm just saying the players in question are the ones responsible, not Queensland Rugby League management.

Smith in particular really screwed the Coach and selectors over, and Cronk was really only marginally more forgiveable because he prematurely pulled the pin and screwed us with a little more notice.
I think Smith was probably the only one who probably screwed us over tbh. Inglis was out of our control. Cronk seems the type of guy who would have stuck around if he was asked to for another year. Slater and JT went at the right time for me. I truly dont believe they had any type of plan in place. I dont think they expected it to play out how it did, which is why i think its not all on the players. The conversation should have really been going in in 2016 or 2017.
- Merged

Maybe that's how it was planned but the prima donna players fucked it all up? You can plan something like that all you want but the players can retire whenever they feel like so it's pretty pointless.
Apart from Smith, i dont think the other guys are prima donnas. They have all been great team players.
 
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