The McKinnon incident debate

[broncos4life]

That's not the only way to do a spear tackle though, in fact it's probably one of the least common ways of doing it. As you can see in the picture you quoted, O'Donnell didn't place his hand between the legs and lift.

Mclean didn't do that anyway, he grabbed a leg and the waist.

Yeah ok, not the point at all.

He put his hands between his legs and lifted, that's illegal. end of story.

 

[Anonymous person]

"Dangerous throw (d) If, in any tackle of, or contact with, an opponent that player
is so lifted that he is placed in a position where it is likely
that the first part of his body to make contact with the
ground will be his head or neck (“the dangerous position”),
then that tackle or contact will be deemed to be a
dangerous throw unless, with the exercise of reasonable
care, the dangerous position could not have been avoided"

From what he did it was not likely that the first part of his body to make contact would be his head.

Could you please post the "hands between legs and lifting" rule definition? From what I can see no such rule exists. If you were not allowed to grab "between the legs", which in this case his hand grabbed behind the ball carriers knee, then pretty much every one of tonie carrolls big hits was illegal. That's part of the classic tackling technique - hit with shoulder, grab behind knees/thighs. Not illegal.

 

[subsbligh]

You want to cut out/down illegal tackles (and injuries from them)?

Reconsider the sin-bin and send off rules.

A suspension of x-number of weeks is no deterrent in the heat of the moment.

Time off the field and potentially leaving your team a man down is a massive deterrent.

Look at the impact of the mandatory "1 punch and you're off" rule and the effect it has had to reduce fighting on field.

You can reduce reckless behaviour by dealing with it during the game.

Forget about precedent and comparing incidents in the past that weren't send-offable offences, starting from now there's new mandatory rules.

A reportable tackle is reviewed on the spot by the video ref and a mandatory ruling (depending on the severity):

(a) compulsory interchange (if none left, see (b) with a minimum 5 minutes on the sidelines);
(b) 5 minute sin-bin;
(c) send-off.

 

[Porthoz]

Is it illegal to place your hand between the legs and lift?

Did McLean place his hands between the legs and lift?

They are the only two questions that need to be answered, the severity of one tackle compared to the other is irrelevant

1- No
2- Yes

No one is saying there was malice or intent.

It did deserve to be penalised because the player placed his hand between the legs of a player & he was lifted. That is against the rules, so that makes it a penalty.

It's not illegal to place a hand between a player's legs (while tackling a player). However, if doing so results in the player being placed in a dangerous position, it becomes an illegal tackle, punishable by a penalty.

[EDIT] AP alredy posted the rule wording I see...

P.S. It's freaking me out that I'm in synch with AP! :shocked:

 

[Kaz]

1- No
2- Yes

1. Tell Thaiday & Dave Taylor that, they were charged with a dangerous throw/lifting throw.

Close said it did not matter whether a tackler's arms were between the opposition player's legs.

[h=3]"They think hands between the legs is intent," he said.[/h]

"But you can do a lifting tackle with intent with your hands wrapped around the legs.

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The date was September 6th 2011

 

[Anonymous person]

It wasn't the lifting that got them charged, it was because they were, and I quote the rules, "so lifted that he is placed in a position where it is likely that the first part of his body to make contact with the ground will be his head or neck".

Lifting = legal.
Lifted into a position where it is likely that they will land on their head/neck = illegal.

And just to clarify - there is no "hand between legs" rule. No mention of it in the rule book or the referee guidelines.

 

[Porthoz]

1. Tell Thaiday & Dave Taylor that, they were charged with a dangerous throw/lifting throw.

Close said it did not matter whether a tackler's arms were between the opposition player's legs.

"They think hands between the legs is intent," he said.



"But you can do a lifting tackle with intent with your hands wrapped around the legs.

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The date was September 6th 2011

Oh, okay, Chris Close said so...
I'm sorry, what were they charged with?

Please tell me where in the rules, does it say that a hand between the legs is illegal.

[EDIT] FFS, stop doing that AP! :ahhhhh:

 

[Morkel]

So all 3 tacklers should be cited?

 

[Porthoz]

McLean's lift is probably what contributed most to the dangerous position. I don't think the other two can be cited tbh.

I don't have a problem with McLean being cited btw, but I hope he's judged fairly on the merits of the action, not its result...

 

[broncos4life]

McLean did lift him and it did result in his head hitting the ground. If McKinnon didn't duck it wouldn't have hit his neck like that but there is no way his head could not hit the ground in some way from that lift

 

[Porthoz]

McLean did lift him and it did result in his head hitting the ground. If McKinnon didn't duck it wouldn't have hit his neck like that but there is no way his head could not hit the ground in some way from that lift

Yeah, that's true. In fact, had he not ducked, he probably would've face planted, and we would all be laughing our heads off instead of shocked at his injury... life can be so cruel sometimes! :tsk:

 

[Morkel]

Yeah, that's true. In fact, had he not ducked, he probably would've face planted, and we would all be laughing our heads off instead of shocked at his injury... life can be so cruel sometimes! :tsk:

I've thought all along that that's why he tucked his head in. He was going face-first in to the turf without the ability to use his arms to brace for the impact.

 

[Viti]

I've thought all along that that's why he tucked his head in. He was going face-first in to the turf without the ability to use his arms to brace for the impact.

That's what I thought at first but he had both his arms free to brace himself and his left arm was the first thing to touch the ground.

 

[Harry Sack]

I'm tipping someone is going to be thrown off the 2nd tier at some stage this season....the question is who?

 

[Huge]

What I don't get are people not blaming the three hulking players who knew his neck was under there, piling on and putting all those kilos on.

It's because we don't have an agenda and are masking our dislike with feigned indignation. No one set out to injure the player and as most rightly point out,the tackle was made without malice. It was an unfortunate COMBINATION of factors. Terribly sad for McKinnon and less so for the poor buggers involved. No one intended this to happen and that is why we don't want to lead a lynch mob.

 

[broncos4life]

It's because we don't have an agenda and are masking our dislike with feigned indignation. No one set out to injure the player and as most rightly point out,the tackle was made without malice. It was an unfortunate COMBINATION of factors. Terribly sad for McKinnon and less so for the poor buggers involved. No one intended this to happen and that is why we don't want to lead a lynch mob.

Great rant but all we are saying is that it is an illegal tackle and he deserves to be punished for an illegal tackle. Obviously the NRL feel that way too.

Also, massive LOL at you accusing someone else of a storm based agenda

 

[Alec]

If he's suspended, it shouldn't be for more than a week or 2. It was just horrific luck.

 

[Huge]

Great rant but all we are saying is that it is an illegal tackle and he deserves to be punished for an illegal tackle. Obviously the NRL feel that way too.

Also, massive LOL at you accusing someone else of a storm based agenda

????... Storm based agenda ???? I cannot remember any agenda about Melbourne on my part other than the view I held and still hold that they were a great side, well coached and successful . I did also point out they had achieved some of their success illegally, according to the rules. I don't like them though ! I am a firm believer however that the past is the past and if you have done your time then it is over. I get on with things and try to see things dispassionately .

I also feel upset at the result of the tackle and wish McKinnon a speedy recovery.