The Wayne Bennett Super thread!

[QUEENSLANDER]

It depends.

If you're trying to build a culture, having a disruptive influence around the squad can be counter productive to what you're trying to build, even if they are talented.

A disruptive influence doesn't necessarily have to be a narcissist or one that is in the headlines all the time, it could simply be someone that doesn't give 100% on the training paddock or doesn't put the team first - if others see them doing it while they are forced to toe the line, they're gonna ask why they get special treatment. Talent or not, it'll foster resentment in the squad - if you're trying to build a team culture that is focussed on the unit rather than the individuals, that shit won't fly.

Bennett has been around long enough to probably identify players who he knows aren't worth the effort in rehabilitating, despite their talent. You can either **** around with them for a season or two and possibly still fail to get them to adhere to your ways, or you can remove them, mark a line in the sand, and recruit someone who will follow the vision.

As you said, it depends. From all that has come out in the media, as well as from both bennett and vidot's mouth, his attitude wasnt the problem. It was the "mistakes". If there was something going on we dont know, then fair enough, but from an outsider looking in, which is all any of us are, it seems vidots days were marked as soon as captain senile arrived.

 

[Morkel]

It's very good thread. But not very very good. Only very good. Closer to not very good.

The poignant thing though is context. A Super Player is different to a player that is Super Talented. Obviously. Because just because a player is Super Talented doesn't make you a Super Player, just ask Ben Roberts, or any other Super Talented player that has played under the Revered Master Coach Who Gets The Best Out Of Every Player Bellamy. IMO all the more reason they should get the boot, if you're Super Talented yet not a Super Player then you likely have issues with discipline and application and that's not Bennett's type of player. Predictable? Yes. Wrong? Depends what your agendas are.

But we're not here to talk about that. This is the Wayne Bennett Super Thread. It certainly doesn't suggest that Wayne Bennett is Super, otherwise it would be Wayne Bennett's Super thread. "Bennett's" being short for "Bennett Is" not in terms of possessive. And if you think the "Super" means large or premium, then you're wrong. And stupid for assuming that. Stop being stupid, stupid. No, what "Wayne Bennett Super Thread" means is that this Thread is "Wayne Bennett Super", as in, as Super as Wayne Bennett is. And obviously, if you're not a Wayne Bennett buttlicker, you'd understand that "Super" is actually a sarcastic term. In truth, it means "predictable, set-in-its-ways, tedious, and has zero entertainment value". I couldn't have described the thread better myself. Kudos to the OP. Nailed it.

 

[broncos4life]

A lot of people care. This is a discussion forum and the coach has thrown a player who was much improved last year onto the scrap heap before pre season was even over.

I couldn't give a **** if it's his choice. It's also his choice to play Milford at prop if he wants. Doesn't mean we can't talk about it.

Also, as coach it should also be his role to use the talent he has at his disposal. It's not an area where he is particularly good IMO.

Righto Ari. I never said or suggested people shouldn't or couldn't discuss this, I am simply stating my opinion like you and everyone else are.

I personally would have liked Vidot in the team over Maranta, but the are both line ball and both have massive issues. Bennett has chosen Maranta over vidot for whatever reason, reasons we probably we will never know, but in any case both players our outside our full strength 17 next year or even earlier, so I'm not losing sleep over it.

Furthermore, I don't subscribe to this theory that a coach must work with the players there when he arrives at a club. Everyone coach has qualities in players they like to work with, and if Bennett doesn't see those qualities in a depth option player I don't see the issue. That's just my opinion

 

[Renegade]

As you said, it depends. From all that has come out in the media, as well as from both bennett and vidot's mouth, his attitude wasnt the problem. It was the "mistakes". If there was something going on we dont know, then fair enough, but from an outsider looking in, which is all any of us are, it seems vidots days were marked as soon as captain senile arrived.

I feel sorry for Vidot in the sense that he did sound really passionate about playing for the club and at least as far as stats go, he had a good season last season.

But if Bennett has seen something in the torture camp or in the friendlies they've played that has turned him off, it is upto Vidot to do something about it. Wanting to leave after a few weeks kinda confirms the theory that when the going got tough, Vidots response was to shy away from it.

Bennett has a pretty good track record with releasing players (in the sense of him usually being right and the players not going on to make anything of themselves) so while I'm disappointed in a sense for Vidot, I'm willing to back Bennett for now until Vidot turns out to be a consummate professional for another side.

 

[Kimlo]

For such a master coach there seems to be an unwillingness to work with certain players. A good coach would work with them to improve their game, or at least try, before discarding them. It seems Bennett is severly missing that skill.

I love how you simplify everything to exaggerate your point.

Every coach has an unwillingness to work with certain players, spare the bullshit and accept that's the case in any sports or in any industry in the world. You can't compare him with guys like Bellamy who have been at one club for a long time now, he already has the exact roster he wants, there's not going to be examples of players he's unwilling to work with.

Bennett has inherited a new squad, you're delusional if you think he should come here and accept to work with everyone, he's the coach, he's going to make changes so the squad suits his style of coaching. Every single new coach or coach that has changed clubs have signed new players and got rid of players they didn't want.

The bias is so hard to read, Bennett didn't want Barba, you and the likes raked him over the coals for that, but Barba has been absolute shit at Cronulla for just under a million dollars a year, I don't see you giving him credit for a decision well made. Kennedy the powderpuff was moved on, Hoffman was quickly granted a release, Thaiday the guy you've been bagging for years has finally been benched for being shit. Bennett didn't recruit his oldies with him, he's already given two players their debut and selected them three weeks in a row over "Bennett style" players like Lowrie and Stagg.

For people to take your opinions on Bennett seriously, you need to be balanced, all I've seem from you since Bennett signed on is absolute negativity towards every decision Bennett is involved in. This doesn't fill me with confidence that you're speaking without hate goggles.

Bennett been around long enough to understand what type of players he can work with, wasting time is not in anyone's best interest.

 

[Porthoz]

I feel sorry for Vidot in the sense that he did sound really passionate about playing for the club and at least as far as stats go, he had a good season last season.

But if Bennett has seen something in the torture camp or in the friendlies they've played that has turned him off, it is upto Vidot to do something about it. Wanting to leave after a few weeks kinda confirms the theory that when the going got tough, Vidots response was to shy away from it.

Bennett has a pretty good track record with releasing players (in the sense of him usually being right and the players not going on to make anything of themselves) so while I'm disappointed in a sense for Vidot, I'm willing to back Bennett for now until Vidot turns out to be a consummate professional for another side.

Wayne has every right to make this decision, as anyone has the right to disagree with it, however this comes in stark contrast with every other bit of information we have, including this:

All his discpline issues were minor; no scandal here. Simple fact is he isn't wanted which is Bennett's call. Jets' players were told on Tuesday he wouldn't be back.

Truth is he wasn't wanted from the start; Jets knew they were going to have him from December.

Pointing the finger at Vidot under these circumstances is a low blow imo. He clearly wanted to be here, the Broncos are and always have been his club, I very much doubt he would choose to leave lightly, and if he was already on the outer since December, and I have no reason to doubt 1910 on this, he actually did what people are accusing him not to have done... put his head down, work hard and wait for a chance. Eventually everyone breaks though, and it looks like this week was Daniel's limit.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

I love how you simplify everything to exaggerate your point.

Every coach has an unwillingness to work with certain players, spare the bullshit and accept that's the case in any sports or in any industry in the world. You can't compare him with guys like Bellamy who have been at one club for a long time now, he already has the exact roster he wants, there's not going to be examples of players he's unwilling to work with.

Bennett has inherited a new squad, you're delusional if you think he should come here and accept to work with everyone, he's the coach, he's going to make changes so the squad suits his style of coaching. Every single new coach or coach that has changed clubs have signed new players and got rid of players they didn't want.

The bias is so hard to read, Bennett didn't want Barba, you and the likes raked him over the coals for that, but Barba has been absolute shit at Cronulla for just under a million dollars a year, I don't see you giving him credit for a decision well made. Kennedy the powderpuff was moved on, Hoffman was quickly granted a release, Thaiday the guy you've been bagging for years has finally been benched for being shit. Bennett didn't recruit his oldies with him, he's already given two players their debut and selected them three weeks in a row over "Bennett style" players like Lowrie and Stagg.

For people to take your opinions on Bennett seriously, you need to be balanced, all I've seem from you since Bennett signed on is absolute negativity towards every decision Bennett is involved in. This doesn't fill me with confidence that you're speaking without hate goggles.

Bennett been around long enough to understand what type of players he can work with, wasting time is not in anyone's best interest.

I dont believe bennett tried to work with vidot at all though. didnt even give him a chance. sounds like he was shipped off to the jets before he even had a chance, so if that is true it doesnt reflect well on bennett, and i dont think many coaches would do that, without at least giving them a chance to prove themself. of course, if theres other stuff going on we dont know about then i stand corrected. but your obvious hate for me is blinding you from the balanced argument i am putting forward.

Barba hasn't been any worse for the sharks than milford has been for us so far. Milford had a decent game last week (he wouldve carved up from the back though), but to suggest its proof barba's release was a great decision is far from proven. Milford is playing crap for us just like barba is playing crap for them. Maybe crap isnt how milford should be described, but just a shadow of what he can do. I also see Milford's peak as far higher than barbas, so for them to be playing about the same is worrying

 

[Porthoz]

We'll see what Flanagan can get out of Barba from the back, but it is far too early to judge on any of WB's decisions.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

We'll see what Flanagan can get out of Barba from the back, but it is far too early to judge on any of WB's decisions.

I think too many coaches are trying to manufacture halves these days. We saw it fail for inglis, gasnier, wighton and hayne (i could go on and on, there have been that many) and i think we are going to see the same for milford and barba. It is a specialised position and i think some coaches don't show it the respect it deserves. They seem to realise they have too many good players for another position and just think they can chuck one of them in the halves.

 

[Renegade]

I don't know and I don't profess to know, so it's all a stab in the dark anyway.

Though if preseason starts in November and the Jets knew in Decemeber they'd have him, perhaps there was something early on in pre season that cemented Bennett's position on him. Subsequent friendlies where he was involved may have further solidified Bennett's view.

 

[Battler]

As you said, it depends. From all that has come out in the media, as well as from both bennett and vidot's mouth, his attitude wasnt the problem. It was the "mistakes". If there was something going on we dont know, then fair enough, but from an outsider looking in, which is all any of us are, it seems vidots days were marked as soon as captain senile arrived.

We don't have 24/7 access to every detail of Vidot's life, it wouldn't be over the top to consider the possibility that his public persona is wildly different to his personal one. Attitude has been one of our team's major issues since Wayne left the club, so his (Wayne's) proactive approach to try and change that should be applauded imo.

I personally would have liked Vidot in the team over Maranta, but the are both line ball and both have massive issues. Bennett has chosen Maranta over vidot for whatever reason, reasons we probably we will never know, but in any case both players our outside our full strength 17 next year or even earlier, so I'm not losing sleep over it.

With Boyd, Copley, and most probably Gagai to come back into the side (as well as Oates and Kahu playing some excellent footy), I think it's fair to say that Vidot's days were numbered regardless of his alleged attitude problems. At worst Wayne was straight down the line with Vidot over his position in the team going forward.

 

[Kimlo]

We'll see what Flanagan can get out of Barba from the back, but it is far too early to judge on any of WB's decisions.

It's not far too early, IMO.

Kennedy is a clear failure who's now been infracted, great decision to **** him off.

Barba has been replaced by Boyd on less than half his salary, and from what we've seen so far this year, Barba is as shit as ever, he even admitted not long ago that he's lost his speed, his greatest asset. On the money we've saved, we can sign Gagai! I'd take Gagai + Boyd over even 2012 Barba.

Hoffman gone - great, he was too much of a sook for it to work out as much as I rated him as a winger.

Vidot - We'll see if he can go on to greater things at his next club. Personally I'm disappointed he's leaving.


His signings

Boyd - too early to tell but at his salary a clear upgrade over Barba, whether we even need him... Well the fact that we're playing Maranta and Reed right now tells me we do.

Gavet - Unfortunately won't know till next year.

Blair - Hot and cold so far, will be easier to judge closer to the end of the season.

Waddell - Okay, this is shit for sure.

 

[Ari Gold]

Barba honestly looks awful and given his rumoured salary with us I think WB has absolutely made the right decision in letting Barba go.

My issue is that I am not sure if it's for the right reasons. We're Barba on something like 300k would WB have taken a crack at resurrecting his career or would he still have decided he didn't want Barba and brought Boyd? Call me cynical but I don't think Barba was going to stay here regardless of how much he was on.

 

[Renegade]

Barba honestly looks awful and given his rumoured salary with us I think WB has absolutely made the right decision in letting Barba go.

My issue is that I am not sure if it's for the right reasons. We're Barba on something like 300k would WB have taken a crack at resurrecting his career or would he still have decided he didn't want Barba and brought Boyd? Call me cynical but I don't think Barba was going to stay here regardless of how much he was on.

He would've sent him on his way, citing the need for him to play football regularly and continue developing elsewhere, which is good/the right thing.

 

[Porthoz]

It's not far too early, IMO.

Kennedy is a clear failure who's now been infracted, great decision to **** him off.

Barba has been replaced by Boyd on less than half his salary, and from what we've seen so far this year, Barba is as shit as ever, he even admitted not long ago that he's lost his speed, his greatest asset. On the money we've saved, we can sign Gagai! I'd take Gagai + Boyd over even 2012 Barba.

Hoffman gone - great, he was too much of a sook for it to work out as much as I rated him as a winger.

Vidot - We'll see if he can go on to greater things at his next club. Personally I'm disappointed he's leaving.


His signings

Boyd - too early to tell but at his salary a clear upgrade over Barba, whether we even need him... Well the fact that we're playing Maranta and Reed right now tells me we do.

Gavet - Unfortunately won't know till next year.

Blair - Hot and cold so far, will be easier to judge closer to the end of the season.

Waddell - Okay, this is shit for sure.

Come again? :shocked:

Both the Bulldogs and Broncos CEO confirmed Barba came to the Broncos for the value as he was at the Dogs ($350K reportedly).
Boyd's salary at the Knights ($650K reportedly) has to be covered at least for this season at the Broncos.
It's possible things would be different in 2016, as Barba and Boyd wouldn't be bound by their previous contracts, but that story is just a falacy being pushed to justify WB's decision. As it is, we are probably paying $300K extra for Boyd this year.

Kennedy turned out to be a good decision, as was Hoffman's regardless of his performance at the Tits, but you can't make statements about Barba or Blair after 3 rounds of NRL... come of it.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

Come again? :shocked:

Both the Bulldogs and Broncos CEO confirmed Barba came to the Broncos for the value as he was at the Dogs ($350K reportedly).
Boyd's salary at the Knights ($650K reportedly) has to be covered at least for this season at the Broncos.
It's possible things would be different in 2016, as Barba and Boyd wouldn't be bound by their previous contracts, but that story is just a falacy being pushed to justify WB's decision. As it is, we are probably paying $300K extra for Boyd this year.

broncospwn pwned

 

[Nashy]

Why are people even arguing that Barba is gone? He was fucking useless, and has been since that one good season. He's just another player to have the wind blown up his ass after a fantastic season, just to slump into the worst form ever, and never regain it.

He's gone, and our team is better for it.

 

[Kimlo]

Come again? :shocked:

Both the Bulldogs and Broncos CEO confirmed Barba came to the Broncos for the value as he was at the Dogs ($350K reportedly).
Boyd's salary at the Knights ($650K reportedly) has to be covered at least for this season at the Broncos.
It's possible things would be different in 2016, as Barba and Boyd wouldn't be bound by their previous contracts, but that story is just a falacy being pushed to justify WB's decision. As it is, we are probably paying $300K extra for Boyd this year.

Kennedy turned out to be a good decision, as was Hoffman's regardless of his performance at the Tits, but you can't make statements about Barba or Blair after 3 rounds of NRL... come of it.

We have salary cap space this year - it doesn't matter what it's being spent on, what matters is next year and the year after when we might have to let go of players like Gillett, or Hunt, or Milford because Barba is taking just under a million dollars for himself.

If Boyd is on the 400k (reportedly) per year after this year, that's 500-600k we're no longer paying Barba for 2016 and 2017, money that can be used to sign Gagai.

Don't give me this fallacy BS to justify WB's decision. I understand how the cap works, and I understand that the contract has to be carried over, and I also understand what you spend within a single season while under the cap anyway, has no real effect (hence some teams will try to front load contracts in years they've got room to spare), what matters is when we get to the point where we have no more room in the cap and Barba is stinking up the joint taking 900k of it.

Before you tell me to come off it, read what I wrote.

Blair - Hot and cold so far, will be easier to judge closer to the end of the season.

That's not judging Blair after 3 games of NRL and I can definitely make a statement about Barba, it's not "3 rounds of NRL" as you try to simplify it as though I'm rushing my decision to justify what WB has done. Barba was great in 2012, average in 2013, stunk up the place at fullback in 2014 and offered nothing remotely close to justifying even his 350k salary at 5/8, he's then moved on to Cronulla and has still stunk it up 3 games in. This isn't "after 3 games", this is after more than a year of shit performances from a player that used to be a superstar who has turned into a liability.